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The Mauricio Pochettino thread

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Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
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Anyway whilst we are at it, why are so far off Liverpool when our first 11s are really close in terms of talent and quality.
We're close in many aspects, but I think their fullbacks and ours are like night and day...I think this has a lot to do with it.
Also doesn't help that Eriksen looks very likely to leave and hasn't played at his peak for quite a while.
 

Primativ

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Aug 9, 2017
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We're close in many aspects, but I think their fullbacks and ours are like night and day...I think this has a lot to do with it.
Also doesn't help that Eriksen looks very likely to leave and hasn't played at his peak for quite a while.


You think their fullbacks are worth 20 points difference in the table? I'm not so sure. I agree they have top FBs, but for me the biggest difference is in the manager's. Unfortunately Klopp is doing the type of job some of us thought Poch would do at Spurs but it never materialised.
 

Primativ

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As you say it is all about opinions and expectations, and regarding the former I would consider another top 4 finish as us once again having punched above our weight.

No way. I don't understand this viewpoint. This isn't 2010, we aren't plucky underdogs anymore. Yes our netspend has remained pitiful but that's also down to historically good recruitment (not in the last 3 or 4 years necessarily but before that). Also, we have broken our transfer record three times in the last 2 years.

Things change quickly in football and we are far and away the third best squad in the league. It's not even up for debate. Did you see the sides Arsenal and United put out last night? Dreadful. If you think top 4 is punching above our weight, you are still stuck in yesteryear and it says far more about your ridiculously low expectations than it does about my current expectations based on the quality of the league and comparative squad strengths of our rivals.
 

nailsy

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Jul 24, 2005
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It's worth remembering that Klopp only won his first trophy at Liverpool last season and the side he took over were in a very similar position to us the season before he was appointed. The handball against Sissoko in the final could have been a real sliding doors moment for Poch and Klopp.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Jan 7, 2009
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Unfortunately Klopp is doing the type of job some of us thought Poch would do at Spurs but it never materialised.

He's had a few helping hands has old Jurgen. About £250m quids worth of them. And at the times he wanted them as well.
 

Primativ

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It's worth remembering that Klopp only won his first trophy at Liverpool last season and the side he took over were in a very similar position to us the season before he was appointed. The handball against Sissoko in the final could have been a real sliding doors moment for Poch and Klopp.


True but he's taken them to about five finals before that, so they've been knocking on the door since he took over.

We've only reached two finals under Poch, lost both, and we've lost a fair few QF's and SF's.

The handball was a sickener but we still had 90 minutes left to overcome a one goal deficit, and we put in a nothing display.
 

Primativ

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He's had a few helping hands has old Jurgen. About £250m quids worth of them. And at the times he wanted them as well.

Lots of managers spend fortunes on players and don't do anywhere near the job Klopp is doing. If only it was as easy as just spending cash...
 

Timberwolf

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Jan 17, 2008
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You think their fullbacks are worth 20 points difference in the table? I'm not so sure. I agree they have top FBs, but for me the biggest difference is in the manager's. Unfortunately Klopp is doing the type of job some of us thought Poch would do at Spurs but it never materialised.
I agree that the Klopp effect is the biggest factor, but if our fullbacks were providing more than double their current assists we'd certainly be a fair few points better off (though not 20, I admit).
 

Spurs_Bear

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Lots of managers spend fortunes on players and don't do anywhere near the job Klopp is doing. If only it was as easy as just spending cash...

Very big difference in doing a Fulham or an Everton my friend, that's spending cash for cash sake. Telling your chairman you want the best centre half in the league/world and then the best goalkeeper at the world cup and him going to get them for you pretty much straight away for £80m each or whatever it was is a very different angle.

I'm all for being subjective, but the whole point is being able to see the other side too when presented with good arguments.
 

Primativ

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I agree that the Klopp effect is the biggest factor, but if our fullbacks were providing more than double their current assists we'd certainly be a fair few points better off (though not 20, I admit).

Their FBs provide the assists at the expense of their midfield creativity though, so it's just a different way of playing. It's not like they create loads of chances through their midfield AND their fullbacks. So as our FBs are not as good going forward, we should be creating more with our midfield, which should be more creative than Liverpools, at least on paper.

Hopefully GLC and Nomdbele will further us in this regard.
 

nailsy

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True but he's taken them to about five finals before that, so they've been knocking on the door since he took over.

We've only reached two finals under Poch, lost both, and we've lost a fair few QF's and SF's.

The handball was a sickener but we still had 90 minutes left to overcome a one goal deficit, and we put in a nothing display.

Losing five finals or two finals, or going out in four semis doesn't really matter if it's just about wining the trophy does it? You can't write off our manager for not winning anything then excuse another team because they almost won it a few times.

To be fair I thought Liverpool put in a nothing display as well, but it didn't really matter as they had that early lead*. Take that goal out and it's an entirely different game.

*To be honest my memory of the game is very vague so I may be miles off with that.
 

Primativ

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Losing five finals or two finals, or going out in four semis doesn't really matter if it's just about wining the trophy does it? You can't write off our manager for not winning anything then excuse another team because they almost won it a few times.

To be fair I thought Liverpool put in a nothing display as well, but it didn't really matter as they had that early lead*. Take that goal out and it's an entirely different game.

*To be honest my memory of the game is very vague so I may be miles off with that.


I thought Liverpool had more gears to get out of when needed but they played a rightly cautious game as they already had a lead to protect and it was the CL final. They didn't want to take unnecessary risks. Even still, i thought every time they attacked us they looked like slicing us open and scoring at will. The onus was on us to do something to beat them, and we couldn't.

Liverpool had a big early boost in that game but tactically I thought they managed the game superbly and we looked devoid of ideas and played at a horrible slow pace.
 

nailsy

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Lots of managers spend fortunes on players and don't do anywhere near the job Klopp is doing. If only it was as easy as just spending cash...

To be fair Klopp is doing an exceptional job. And so is Pep. Poch might not be quite at their level yet, but he's not been a manager as long as them either.
 

Trix

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Jul 29, 2004
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Lots of managers spend fortunes on players and don't do anywhere near the job Klopp is doing. If only it was as easy as just spending cash...
This. Klopps squad is good but it's still got areas that could be improved. The difference between them and us comes mostly down to mentality, desire and the fact they all know their roles inside out. They play the same way week in week out, to
a point that everything they do is second nature.
 

nailsy

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I thought Liverpool had more gears to get out of when needed but they played a rightly cautious game as they already had a lead to protect and it was the CL final. They didn't want to take unnecessary risks. Even still, i thought every time they attacked us they looked like slicing us open and scoring at will. The onus was on us to do something to beat them, and we couldn't.

Liverpool had a big early boost in that game but tactically I thought they managed the game superbly and we looked devoid of ideas and played at a horrible slow pace.

You may be right. I'd need to re-watch it, but i can't face it yet. Liverpool probably benefited from playing in the final the previous season as well.
Having the final so many weeks after the end of the season didn't help anyone though. You could see that in both of the European finals.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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I thought Liverpool had more gears to get out of when needed but they played a rightly cautious game as they already had a lead to protect and it was the CL final. They didn't want to take unnecessary risks. Even still, i thought every time they attacked us they looked like slicing us open and scoring at will. The onus was on us to do something to beat them, and we couldn't.

Liverpool had a big early boost in that game but tactically I thought they managed the game superbly and we looked devoid of ideas and played at a horrible slow pace.

There's a lot of revisionism about that CL final, Liverpool were nowhere near better than us - They had 14 shots on goal and 3 on target, when they had the ball they didn't control the midfield and kept booting the ball forward for Salah and Mane to run onto - they had 39% possession so I'm not sure what game they managed superbly...

Both teams were under par because of the long break between the final day of the Prem and this match, the heat was a factor and and both teams had key players unfit, it was in fact a nothing match and was killed by an early pen and a speculative goal by Origi was was awful when he came on, basically it was separated by fine margins, it could have been us taking an early lead and I'm not convinced that Liverpool would have broken us down especially since Firmino wasn't fit.
 

Trotter

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Jan 30, 2009
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There's a lot of revisionism about that CL final, Liverpool were nowhere near better than us - They had 14 shots on goal and 3 on target, when they had the ball they didn't control the midfield and kept booting the ball forward for Salah and Mane to run onto - they had 39% possession so I'm not sure what game they managed superbly...

Both teams were under par because of the long break between the final day of the Prem and this match, the heat was a factor and and both teams had key players unfit, it was in fact a nothing match and was killed by an early pen and a speculative goal by Origi was was awful when he came on, basically it was separated by fine margins, it could have been us taking an early lead and I'm not convinced that Liverpool would have broken us down especially since Firmino wasn't fit.

Think there is revisionism, but not from the majority, but the very tiny minority you seem to be in.
For the first 75 minutes of the game, we had 2 shots, both from long range, and zero shots on target and basically only got out of our half on about 4 occasions, we spent that whole time passing between our full backs, centre backs and Winks in midfield. We created nothing of note whatsoever.
It was only in the last 15 minutes after we brought Llorente, Moura and Dier on for Alli, Sissoko and Winks and looked at passing the ball forwards that we started to look threatening and maybe even started to deserve to get something out of game at that stage, but for 75 minutes there was only one team that was in total control of that match, and they weren’t playing in white.
 
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Hakkz

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Jul 6, 2012
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You think their fullbacks are worth 20 points difference in the table? I'm not so sure. I agree they have top FBs, but for me the biggest difference is in the manager's. Unfortunately Klopp is doing the type of job some of us thought Poch would do at Spurs but it never materialised.

Their FBs contributed 23 assists and 1 goal in the league last season. Include giving the freedom to Salah and Mane to stay forward then that is probably worth around 20 points in the end.
 
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