The Mauricio Pochettino thread

spurfetto said:

To be honest I wouldn't be able to give a genuine assessment of howes ability one way or the other, so wrong of me to say he wouldn't fit the bill. If expectations have now risen too really high levels and if poc does go, with all things considered who would be an ideal candidate?
I say back him ?

Click to expand...

wrd said:

I think we as a fan-base should be absolutely ashamed of ourselves for how we have acted in recent weeks, we are not a mega club and yet we have the entitlement of one at the moment despite the fact we have punched well above our weight in recent seasons. We always complain about a lack of loyalty in football yet the lack of loyalty shown to the man who has sent us to our highest heights in the modern era is staggering.

It's not going well, that's a given but if there's one man who has credit in the bank it's Mauricio Pochettino. Yet the first sign of trouble and we're quick to turn our backs on him.

I think some perspective is in order because this fan-base seems to have collectively lost it's memory. Firstly let's talk about that away record. First of all people who are using that stat to beat a stick with us really need some perspective. Our first 3 away games this season were:

City - Draw
Arsenal - Draw
Leicester - Loss

Now we were robbed, point blank robbed vs Leicester that was 2-0 done and dusted, the VAR decision gave them a huge momentum shift and admittedly we could do better but we were robbed, there's no doubt about it but they are 3 really difficult away games and two of them if you were looking at the fixtures start of season, you'd say the first 2 were decent results, this shitty away run will end as soon as we face brighton.

So I know people will then point to 'we haven't won since January away' Well this is where I feel like people have suffered memory loss because 99.9% of us in here were saying that with the world cup stealing 9 of our players until the very end, coupled with a lack of reinforcements that we were going to be screwed. So why are you all fucking so shocked that we were screwed? How have you all forgotten that? That's before we even discuss the injury list but we managed to barely hang onto 4th albeit with a bit of good fortune. However during that run Poch used our resources which were extremely stretched at best and put everything we had into that Champions League run. He did the absolutely best with what we had to deliver something nothing any of us have ever experienced and that's been cosigned to the past.

The other bit of short term memory loss I don't understand is, the vast majority of us were saying that we will suffer the effects of the 2018 summer window down the line when we have too do a massive overhaul to make up for the lack of movement in that window. We all knew that there would be problems with the lack of signings yet that's been seemingly forgotten also. This situation we have now with stagnation was expected and yet we're all still somehow shocked, it's mind-boggling to me. We are suffering the repercussions of that window. We have players who can't seem to get their moves away that they wanted, in Rose, Eriksen, Aurier, Alder. We also can't shift some players we want to shift with the likes of Wanyama. Some of them are making the most of it, others are stinking the joint out but Poch is doing the best he can with what he has. Yes he has made selection mistakes, there's no doubt about that but is that really justification to want him out after everything he's done, or after we failed to deliver the signings for him, is it only right that we allow him to see through this difficult period and try and put it right.

I know also that people will say well Poch said no to the players offered to him, well are you surprised? Because we had a squad which was on the cusp of doing big things but let me remind you what the bench was during that semi final vs Chelsea in the F.A cup:

• 2 Walker
• 9 Janssen
• 14 Nkoudou
• 17 Sissoko
• 27 Wimmer
• 30 López
• 33 Davies

Those were the players he was offered in order to elevate us to another level. He somehow has got a tune out of Sissoko by some minor miracle but are you really that shocked that Poch wasn't willing to accept the shit being offered his way given the history of the players he had to accept before?

We have tried this summer to reinvigorate the squad, in my opinion not enough but we have signed 3 players in Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele. One hasn't played a single minute, one played about 50 minutes over 3 games and got injured and one has just returned from injury. Yet we as a fan-base have decided already that Poch has failed in the latest transition before the transition has even begun. Again how the fuck does this man not have enough credit to see us through.

We're also talking about a current premiership climate when we have arguably two of the best ever prem teams in our way, with another 3 teams in the top6 with us with far more resources trying to win titles. Poch has got us competing with clubs of ridiculous stature and with his ability we are becoming a financial juggernaut, we wouldn't have been able to refinance the stadium the way we have without what Poch has done with such little resource on the pitch. He deserves credit for making us such an appealing club and when Levy lands an astounding stadium naming rights deal remember it was Poch struggling on with little which put the worlds eyes on us with what he's achieved on the pitch.

Yes I'm not thrilled that we are facing another transition, I'm under no illusion that next summer will be another transition. Yes I'm desperate for us to win things but right now I think this fan-base is suffering from entitlement and wants microwaveable results. To be expected in this current society of instant gratification and no shock to see people throwing Jose name into the ring as he is the ultimate at microwaveable results. I think we'd be throwing away our long term aspirations. I see him as our fergy, it's a new era of course but Fergy struggled until his 6th or so season before the good times came. He didn't have to face oil money and a new stadium build either.

I think we'd also do well to remember all the things we were saying about why Poch should stick with us, why real ambition would be to win something with Spurs rather than go to United or Madrid where it's expected, where we were asking for loyalty. The shoe's on the other foot now and I think as a fan-base we need to be better, accept that there is difficult times ahead but if we can get through it with Poch at the helm and overhaul the squad properly It will mean so much more than quickly bringing in a name and beginning a period where we chuck manager after manager in for short term gain.

We're showing a real lack of loyalty and I think we need to be grateful for what we have and get behind him through this rocky period.

Click to expand...

wrd said:

I think we as a fan-base should be absolutely ashamed of ourselves for how we have acted in recent weeks, we are not a mega club and yet we have the entitlement of one at the moment despite the fact we have punched well above our weight in recent seasons. We always complain about a lack of loyalty in football yet the lack of loyalty shown to the man who has sent us to our highest heights in the modern era is staggering.

It's not going well, that's a given but if there's one man who has credit in the bank it's Mauricio Pochettino. Yet the first sign of trouble and we're quick to turn our backs on him.

I think some perspective is in order because this fan-base seems to have collectively lost it's memory. Firstly let's talk about that away record. First of all people who are using that stat to beat a stick with us really need some perspective. Our first 3 away games this season were:

City - Draw
Arsenal - Draw
Leicester - Loss

Now we were robbed, point blank robbed vs Leicester that was 2-0 done and dusted, the VAR decision gave them a huge momentum shift and admittedly we could do better but we were robbed, there's no doubt about it but they are 3 really difficult away games and two of them if you were looking at the fixtures start of season, you'd say the first 2 were decent results, this shitty away run will end as soon as we face brighton.

So I know people will then point to 'we haven't won since January away' Well this is where I feel like people have suffered memory loss because 99.9% of us in here were saying that with the world cup stealing 9 of our players until the very end, coupled with a lack of reinforcements that we were going to be screwed. So why are you all fucking so shocked that we were screwed? How have you all forgotten that? That's before we even discuss the injury list but we managed to barely hang onto 4th albeit with a bit of good fortune. However during that run Poch used our resources which were extremely stretched at best and put everything we had into that Champions League run. He did the absolutely best with what we had to deliver something nothing any of us have ever experienced and that's been cosigned to the past.

The other bit of short term memory loss I don't understand is, the vast majority of us were saying that we will suffer the effects of the 2018 summer window down the line when we have too do a massive overhaul to make up for the lack of movement in that window. We all knew that there would be problems with the lack of signings yet that's been seemingly forgotten also. This situation we have now with stagnation was expected and yet we're all still somehow shocked, it's mind-boggling to me. We are suffering the repercussions of that window. We have players who can't seem to get their moves away that they wanted, in Rose, Eriksen, Aurier, Alder. We also can't shift some players we want to shift with the likes of Wanyama. Some of them are making the most of it, others are stinking the joint out but Poch is doing the best he can with what he has. Yes he has made selection mistakes, there's no doubt about that but is that really justification to want him out after everything he's done, or after we failed to deliver the signings for him, is it only right that we allow him to see through this difficult period and try and put it right.

I know also that people will say well Poch said no to the players offered to him, well are you surprised? Because we had a squad which was on the cusp of doing big things but let me remind you what the bench was during that semi final vs Chelsea in the F.A cup:

• 2 Walker
• 9 Janssen
• 14 Nkoudou
• 17 Sissoko
• 27 Wimmer
• 30 López
• 33 Davies

Those were the players he was offered in order to elevate us to another level. He somehow has got a tune out of Sissoko by some minor miracle but are you really that shocked that Poch wasn't willing to accept the shit being offered his way given the history of the players he had to accept before?

We have tried this summer to reinvigorate the squad, in my opinion not enough but we have signed 3 players in Lo Celso, Sessegnon and Ndombele. One hasn't played a single minute, one played about 50 minutes over 3 games and got injured and one has just returned from injury. Yet we as a fan-base have decided already that Poch has failed in the latest transition before the transition has even begun. Again how the fuck does this man not have enough credit to see us through.

We're also talking about a current premiership climate when we have arguably two of the best ever prem teams in our way, with another 3 teams in the top6 with us with far more resources trying to win titles. Poch has got us competing with clubs of ridiculous stature and with his ability we are becoming a financial juggernaut, we wouldn't have been able to refinance the stadium the way we have without what Poch has done with such little resource on the pitch. He deserves credit for making us such an appealing club and when Levy lands an astounding stadium naming rights deal remember it was Poch struggling on with little which put the worlds eyes on us with what he's achieved on the pitch.

Yes I'm not thrilled that we are facing another transition, I'm under no illusion that next summer will be another transition. Yes I'm desperate for us to win things but right now I think this fan-base is suffering from entitlement and wants microwaveable results. To be expected in this current society of instant gratification and no shock to see people throwing Jose name into the ring as he is the ultimate at microwaveable results. I think we'd be throwing away our long term aspirations. I see him as our fergy, it's a new era of course but Fergy struggled until his 6th or so season before the good times came. He didn't have to face oil money and a new stadium build either.

I think we'd also do well to remember all the things we were saying about why Poch should stick with us, why real ambition would be to win something with Spurs rather than go to United or Madrid where it's expected, where we were asking for loyalty. The shoe's on the other foot now and I think as a fan-base we need to be better, accept that there is difficult times ahead but if we can get through it with Poch at the helm and overhaul the squad properly It will mean so much more than quickly bringing in a name and beginning a period where we chuck manager after manager in for short term gain.

We're showing a real lack of loyalty and I think we need to be grateful for what we have and get behind him through this rocky period.

Click to expand...

rossdapep said:

Okay as you can't be bothered (or actually have no argument and just want to troll) I will say why its not bollocks.

Imagine we end the season 5th with no trophies.

Scenario 1 - Poch leaves or is asked to leave. We will no longer be able to attract the Allegris or Mourinhos, for some that's fine. But do we go down the Eddie Howe route who is a fine coach but not a winner? The next step for us is to win stuff. Secondly the likes of Kane, Alli and whoever else think "Howe? I want to win something. I want a proven winner otherwise I'll go elsewhere and find one". Also those out of contract will definitely leave. Definitely.

Scenario 2 - Poch stays, the players out of contract leave anyway as they are tired of the regime and want something new. Kane, as much as he loves Poch, starts to wonder if he'll win anything at the club as he's 27 and approaching 30. Okay, he may not go but its the start of his doubts. Alli is probably prepared to stay longer as he's younger but he's probably thinking of another destination.

Either way, we are in a scenario where a large amount of big players are leaving or are having doubts. We are likely going to need another mass repair job which will set us back another couple of years.

Or

Either Poch turns this around, gets players back on side and we get CL comfortably, win something and look forward instead of looking unsettled. Or, should Poch not turn this around, another coach comes in, breathes new energy and gets the players believing they can win stuff again.

Anything other than those last two options will set us back even further and it'll be harder to get back this time.

Click to expand...

spursfan77 said:

I really wouldn’t judge him on his time at Man Utd. There was so much going on behind the scenes.

If he were to come it would mean levy would have to back him from day one. Isn’t that what lots of fans have been calling out for? The chairman backing his manager with signings from day one, he’d have to, Mourinho wouldn’t settle for anything less. It’s probably the main reason we won’t see him as our manager.

But let’s be honest, mourinho is no idiot, he will know what he would be walking into.

Basically it could go spectacularly badly or fantastically well. To dare is to do?

Click to expand...

Lighty64 said:

no you don't or you would have made note of it when moaning last season.

these players are 4 years older now compared to the 1's that gave you a hard on 4 seasons ago. they are now playing every 2 weeks of every season unless injured, because they are now Internationals, and they are now playing in the CL not the Europa where rotation was possible.

Dier has been injured, Alli has been injured? Eriksens head is up in the clouds. please tell me how you press a team that has 10 players camped in their own half. Alli and Eriksen were part of the 1st line in the press

the press works better when there are big areas between players rushing them to have to pass quick and long, like Palace last week. when you have 10 players sat defending, if your closed down you can make a very short pass because your players are closer, and prepared to kick long aiming for the flanks where you hope your fast players can cause havoc on the counter.

Click to expand...

Primativ said:

The palace game at the moment looks like a one off. Especially in the context of the last 18 months. A bit like how we dined out on the Everton away game at Xmas for about 6 months afterwards.

Click to expand...

danielneeds said:

I wasn’t moaning last season, mate, so shut your mouth.

Click to expand...

WiganSpur said:

I see your point regarding a squad in transition etc. but if you look at the squad as is on paper it is comfortably 3rd best in the league. It's also not necessarily about the results, it's the performances that concern me. There's clearly been a marked difference from the 15/16 and 16/17 sides. There were small signs developing the following season, Levy then ballsed up the investment which exacerbated the staleness for 18/19. For these reasons, our performances were excusable and totally understandable.

However this season you can't not say Levy has backed him with quality signings. He's had a full pre-season with the vast majority of the players, no real international hangovers. I will show patience, especially until Lo Celso and Sessegnon are involved, but we need to be a lot better than we are showing. We have an unbelievably talented squad.

I'm not saying this based on yesterday, I think it was the Olympiacos game that worried me a lot more in terms of the general performance after it looked like we'd turned a corner v. Palace. Alarm bells rang regarding Eriksen that night, and it seems as though the quicker we can replace him with Lo Celso the better. Eriksen is trying, but I just don't think the 100% commitment is there, and that's natural for somebody who sees his future away.

Even so, let's say the Eriksen situation is hurting us, and that a few senior players need to be moved on. It still doesn't excuse the constant changes in shape, baffling substitutions, and the preference of players who we were actively looking to sell over talented lads like Skipp. It's difficult to know if Poch or the players are the problem at this point.

Click to expand...

danielneeds said:

I wasn’t moaning last season, mate, so shut your mouth.

Click to expand...

WiganSpur said:

Now I remember why I have this poster on ignore, I advise you to do so too!

Click to expand...

Lighty64 said:

you've made up for it in this thread

Click to expand...

THFC_SWE said:

It depends on what you mean by good enough? Good enough to challenge Man City or Liverpool? Then the answer is no.

Is the squad good enough to get better results than 4-5-9 in the latest 18 league games? Of course it is. We should do better, much better.

Click to expand...

EastLondonYid said:

which bit specifically, the bit where you said show him the door,?

Click to expand...

hatch said:

I was just curious, if some of you stat cats could help, what the run of form was like when Martin Jol and say Ramos was sacked.?

I’m not saying I want MP gone but I think somethings not quite right. That’s why I was curious about the above mentioned managers, (or others) after all it’s a results based business and I wondered where maybe the line will be drawn.

Click to expand...

WiganSpur said:

I see your point regarding a squad in transition etc. but if you look at the squad as is on paper it is comfortably 3rd best in the league. It's also not necessarily about the results, it's the performances that concern me. There's clearly been a marked difference from the 15/16 and 16/17 sides. There were small signs developing the following season, Levy then ballsed up the investment which exacerbated the staleness for 18/19. For these reasons, our performances were excusable and totally understandable.

However this season you can't not say Levy has backed him with quality signings. He's had a full pre-season with the vast majority of the players, no real international hangovers. I will show patience, especially until Lo Celso and Sessegnon are involved, but we need to be a lot better than we are showing. We have an unbelievably talented squad.

I'm not saying this based on yesterday, I think it was the Olympiacos game that worried me a lot more in terms of the general performance after it looked like we'd turned a corner v. Palace. Alarm bells rang regarding Eriksen that night, and it seems as though the quicker we can replace him with Lo Celso the better. Eriksen is trying, but I just don't think the 100% commitment is there, and that's natural for somebody who sees his future away.

Even so, let's say the Eriksen situation is hurting us, and that a few senior players need to be moved on. It still doesn't excuse the constant changes in shape, baffling substitutions, and the preference of players who we were actively looking to sell over talented lads like Skipp. It's difficult to know if Poch or the players are the problem at this point.

Click to expand...

Lighty64 said:

we haven't played 18 games this season.

Click to expand...