Shadydan
Well-Known Member
- Jul 7, 2012
- 38,247
- 104,143
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive you know, you can be dissatisfied with the team's performance at the same time not happy with the ref's performance as well.
Spurs and VAR
- Thread starter Archibald&Crooks
- Start date
The two don't have to be mutually exclusive you know, you can be dissatisfied with the team's performance at the same time not happy with the ref's performance as well.
wrd
Well-Known Member
- Aug 22, 2014
- 13,603
- 58,005
I'd agree with your overall point if it wasn't Atkinson we were talking about, yeah mistakes happen but he's consistently poor. Just last week I watched Norwich vs Chelsea, was joking with my Chelsea supporting pal to enjoy Atkinson and again he was crap. I think he's genuinely the worst ref in the league, the only thing that saves him from more ridicule is what a giant bellend Mike Dean is.
kendoddsdadsdogsdead
Well-Known Member
- Aug 29, 2011
- 2,179
- 3,670
I think what you want is consistency. Strict or lenient as long as it’s roughly carried out the same for both teams that’s all you can ask. Yesterday all the little calls, which does affect the flow of the game went Arsenals way. Those things are more frustrating than one big call not going your way. Atkinson’s never been a good referee for us imo.
I know that and appreciate theyre not mutually exclusive. My point really was that there is so much emphasis and moaning on referees and basically its like whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa? There are seriously bad mistakes eg the Grealish one and then there are some subjective ones eg the two Kane ones...
Referees arent biased we get as many favourable decisions as others get.
Did they though? Maybe it is just me but i really didnt feel that at all. I think it was a game that was blood and thunder, both teams got marginal decisions.
I agree we all want consistency but that would require rigid rules which lets be honest the majority dont like... look at the hand ball.
SpartanSpur
Well-Known Member
- Jan 27, 2011
- 12,552
- 43,063
I think the hash we have made of VAR so far across the whole league, and the failure to learn from other leagues (which should be huge benefit) is a damning indictment of the quality of refereeing in this country.
I have always been pro-VAR but find myself losing faith in it over here with the ridiculous implementation of it. Allow the VAR referee to have some balls and make an actual decision. I guarantee that brings up less heat as the decision has been made after seeing multiple replays. No one will jump on the original referee for missing it.
I'm still absolutely stunned about the Lerma/Silva one and whilst a bit more contested still think Kane should have got one last week. At the moment the VAR official only has power on handballs and offsides. They can probably program a bot to do that!
Apparently Oliver was a VAR ref this weekend. What a farce.
I will say I don't have any real complaints about VAR yesterday however. The Kane penalty is a 50/50 call, some you get and some you don't. It's the Jamie Vardy signature move. The attacker exaggerates the contact but at the same time the defender is reckless. Does look like the Dele foul may have started outside. I will say that it felt like a 'homer' performance from Atkinson however. He was quick to book ours but somehow missed booking Xhaka on numerous occasions. I think he gives that Kane pen up the other end.
I have always been pro-VAR but find myself losing faith in it over here with the ridiculous implementation of it. Allow the VAR referee to have some balls and make an actual decision. I guarantee that brings up less heat as the decision has been made after seeing multiple replays. No one will jump on the original referee for missing it.
I'm still absolutely stunned about the Lerma/Silva one and whilst a bit more contested still think Kane should have got one last week. At the moment the VAR official only has power on handballs and offsides. They can probably program a bot to do that!
Apparently Oliver was a VAR ref this weekend. What a farce.
I will say I don't have any real complaints about VAR yesterday however. The Kane penalty is a 50/50 call, some you get and some you don't. It's the Jamie Vardy signature move. The attacker exaggerates the contact but at the same time the defender is reckless. Does look like the Dele foul may have started outside. I will say that it felt like a 'homer' performance from Atkinson however. He was quick to book ours but somehow missed booking Xhaka on numerous occasions. I think he gives that Kane pen up the other end.
sausage
?
- May 17, 2018
- 11,872
- 47,993
I'm quite amazed at how reckless Xhaka is, and yet he barely ever gets booked anymore.
Meanwhile, Winks literally winks and gets booked.
Lighty64
I believe
- Aug 24, 2010
- 10,400
- 12,476
they had 19-13 in free kicks we received 5 yellow cards both Sanchez and Eriksen booked for less offences in comparison to 7 Xhaka fouls (think he deserved a red for the pen), and he was booked on his 7th foul. The Rose booking the players collided, Rose couldn't get out the way. Winks might of not even heard the whistle.
the Kane challenge if that had been around the other way, Arse get a free kick. you see those given in the league outside the area all the time, it used to 1 of my biggest grievances with Walker when defending an attacker in the corner. Kane had every right to protect the ball, the Arse defender had no right to go through him.
Ionman34
SC Supporter
- Jun 1, 2011
- 7,182
- 16,793
While Danny Rose gets booked for pulling out of a tackle and making no contact.
Homer referee indeed. Atkinson booked Rose and Winks for first offences, one of which wasn’t even an offence. Chaka commits 7 offences and gets booked on 92 minutes for the 7th. Referees can and do have a direct impact on how certain players play. Rose was targeted from the moment he was carded. He knows he has no wiggle room because he’s got a yellow for nothing. Even if he had fouled the player, he still wasn’t given any leeway, whereas Xhaka was effectively given a free pass. So Rose has to play within himself whilst Xhaka has free reign to effectively do as he pleases.
Arsenal also knew that all they had to do was hit the ground at every challenge around our box and they’d get a free shot on goal, whereas our defenders had to be ultra careful, which breeds indecision.
Atkinson had a howler, yet again.
WiganSpur
Well-Known Member
- Aug 31, 2012
- 15,987
- 32,714
VAR suffers from a lack of objectivity just like standard refereeing. It’s only been successful for offsides imo where the boundaries are far clearer. It’s been inconsistent regarding any other decisions and I don’t think it is any improvement. I say we should just use it for offside decisions unless I see proof that it can get 99% of other decisions right which I just don’t think is possible with the subjectivity of handball and penalty calls.
Ionman34
SC Supporter
- Jun 1, 2011
- 7,182
- 16,793
The problem is that the same referees who were making spurious calls on the pitch before VAR, are the same refs making spurious decisions watching video.
What it highlights is their ineptitude both on and off the pitch. It shows that the bad decisions before VAR weren’t down to them “not seeing” an incident, but were either them not being able to apply the laws of the game, or not having the stones to make the call. At worst it highlights a clear favouritism towards certain teams, which many of us have asserted for years.
According to VAR HQ there are 4 errors that VAR should have helped with and didnt since the start of the season:
www.bbc.co.uk
None effecting our games or the decisions reached in them. Surprised not to see Lamela on Rhodri on that list
VAR fails to overturn four decisions
Premier League clubs are told VAR failed to overturn four incorrect decisions in the first four rounds of matches this season.
www.bbc.co.uk
None effecting our games or the decisions reached in them. Surprised not to see Lamela on Rhodri on that list
Marty
Audere est farce
- Mar 10, 2005
- 40,137
- 63,709
There are three more that really should've been on that list. Lamela on Rodri, Lascelles on Kane and whoever on Southampton fouled Martial are the worst omissions. Also Grealish's booking for diving and Villa's subsequently disallowed goal v Palace is a crazy one although from what I've gathered VAR's hands were tied because the ref blew up before the ball went in.According to VAR HQ there are 4 errors that VAR should have helped with and didnt since the start of the season:
VAR fails to overturn four decisions
Premier League clubs are told VAR failed to overturn four incorrect decisions in the first four rounds of matches this season.
None effecting our games or the decisions reached in them. Surprised not to see Lamela on Rhodri on that list
At least they admit VAR hasn't done well enough, even though I feel they're already massively suger-coating the verdict so far and I was a VAR fan.
fletch82
Well-Known Member
- Aug 23, 2015
- 2,652
- 8,489
According to VAR HQ there are 4 errors that VAR should have helped with and didnt since the start of the season:
VAR fails to overturn four decisions
Premier League clubs are told VAR failed to overturn four incorrect decisions in the first four rounds of matches this season.
None effecting our games or the decisions reached in them. Surprised not to see Lamela on Rhodri on that list
But ... but ... but..
This will be devastating news to mk yid every var decision not given against us is incorrect.
And every one in our favour was also incorrect........
I'm very confused now.
hughy
I'm SUPER cereal.
- Nov 18, 2007
- 31,906
- 57,094
Proves it's not working.According to VAR HQ there are 4 errors that VAR should have helped with and didnt since the start of the season:
VAR fails to overturn four decisions
Premier League clubs are told VAR failed to overturn four incorrect decisions in the first four rounds of matches this season.
None effecting our games or the decisions reached in them. Surprised not to see Lamela on Rhodri on that list
VAR shouldn't get any decisions wrong. The referees still will on occasion (Lamela on Rodri, Grealish goal etc), but VAR certainly shouldn't. I used to be in favour of VAR, but it has so many ambiguities I'm wishing it never existed.
But ... but ... but..
This will be devastating news to mk yid every var decision not given against us is incorrect.
And every one in our favour was also incorrect........
I'm very confused now.
Actually I think every VAR decision in our games have been correct, with the exception of Lamela on Rodri.
Both Kane penalty incidents (initiated contact both times), Dele, if it was even looked at, was outside area, all correctly not over-ruled by VAR
Handball goal for Man City, correctly adjudicated by VAR in my view.
In general I think the refereeing in our games have been of a very good standard so far, only quibble is I felt Xhaka should have received a yellow card on the penalty incident last match.
Last edited:
LeSoupeKitchen
Well-Known Member
- Aug 18, 2011
- 3,107
- 7,640
You've just got to laugh at how it's being applied this season.
WhiteStripe
Get out of my club you cretin!
- Aug 23, 2006
- 14,209
- 4,977
Lines are not even straight, also not at the furthest part of the defenders knee. Also how the fuck can they determine the exact mm Sons shoulder turns into his arm, also sons line overlaps his chest. They have already mentioned VAR cannot be down to the mm yet they gave offside for a fucking pixel overlap. This system is supposed to take all the ambiguity out of the game yet its just introducing new debates and more subjective decisions. How the fuck can they be 100% certain that 1000th of a second freeze frame is the exact 1000th of a second the ball left his foot? Also why the fuck did they have to take so long for a VAR decision on their goal. At least 3 players were clearly a yard offside. That should be bread and butter to a linesman. VAR is ruining the game the way its currently being used.
Last edited:
Saoirse
Well-Known Member
- Aug 20, 2013
- 6,161
- 15,640
I've had enough of this. It's killling the game - even for those watching on telly as well as, of course, actual match-attending fans.
It's pretending to have a level of accuracy which there simply isn't, for a start. The camera's filming at 60fps, so the ball may have been kicked up to 1/60th of a second before the picture is taken - at which stage he might be onside. And even worse, they're arbitarily drawing a border between the arm and the soulder. Now my professional background is in Biology. If you gave me an x-ray of somebody I wouldn't want to actually draw that border to literally a millimetre of precision - maybe at a stretch a computer could. A moving image, where he's even got a shirt on over the joint in question? Give me a break, it's impossible. Literally impossible.
At this point I'd probably choose to scrap VAR entirely. At most, have it used for objectively incorrect decisions, which materially impact the play (so a ball bouncing vaguely off the very top of the arm rather than the shoulder does not count), with players having to actively signal for a review to avoid the uncertainty around every goal. But this implementation is farcical and far, far worse than what we had before the technology - and that situation could have been greatly improved with a simple focus on improving referee quality.
It's pretending to have a level of accuracy which there simply isn't, for a start. The camera's filming at 60fps, so the ball may have been kicked up to 1/60th of a second before the picture is taken - at which stage he might be onside. And even worse, they're arbitarily drawing a border between the arm and the soulder. Now my professional background is in Biology. If you gave me an x-ray of somebody I wouldn't want to actually draw that border to literally a millimetre of precision - maybe at a stretch a computer could. A moving image, where he's even got a shirt on over the joint in question? Give me a break, it's impossible. Literally impossible.
At this point I'd probably choose to scrap VAR entirely. At most, have it used for objectively incorrect decisions, which materially impact the play (so a ball bouncing vaguely off the very top of the arm rather than the shoulder does not count), with players having to actively signal for a review to avoid the uncertainty around every goal. But this implementation is farcical and far, far worse than what we had before the technology - and that situation could have been greatly improved with a simple focus on improving referee quality.
