Shots conceded

Wsussexspur · Sep 19, 2019

spurs mental said:
A fully fit Dier or Wanyama will sort all this out. Such a shame that neither of them seem capable of being just that right now.

100% agree at the moment our midfield is way too easy to get through.

When Dier is fit I’d bring him back in to the team.

shelfboy68 · Sep 19, 2019

spurs mental said:
Decent post but then you mention that West Ham look in better shape than us and lose all credibility.

Fair enough but the point I'm making is that the so called chasing pack from 7th to 10th are getting better whilst we go backwards, anyone of these could go past us quite soon if the issues are not ironed out.
Let's face it there will be no title challenge from us or another CL final reached as things stand the team is not good enough.

spurs mental · Sep 19, 2019

shelfboy68 said:
Fair enough but the point I'm making is that the so called chasing pack from 7th to 10th are getting better whilst we go backwards, anyone of these could go past us quite soon if the issues are not ironed out.
Let's face it there will be no title challenge from us or another CL final reached as things stand the team is not good enough.

We've played 6 games so far this season. We are notoriously slow starters under Poch due to the fitness regime. Chill out. We haven't played great so far but that's no surprise with the new bodies and the early rotation and unsettled players. We aren't going backwards and nobody from 7th to 10th is good enough to pass us out this season. They might be improving but they aren't going to improve by 10-15 points this season nor will we drop by that many either.

shelfboy68 · Sep 19, 2019

spurs mental said:
We've played 6 games so far this season. We are notoriously slow starters under Poch due to the fitness regime. Chill out. We haven't played great so far but that's no surprise with the new bodies and the early rotation and unsettled players. We aren't going backwards and nobody from 7th to 10th is good enough to pass us out this season. They might be improving but they aren't going to improve by 10-15 points this season nor will we drop by that many either.

But we have only played one new body so that doesn't stack up as for pochs fitness regime what is the point of not being ready until October the best team's will have pulled away by then, surely any chance we have the team need to be better prepared earlier.

spurs mental · Sep 19, 2019

shelfboy68 said:
But we have only played one new body so that doesn't stack up as for pochs fitness regime what is the point of not being ready until October the best team's will have pulled away by then, surely any chance we have the team need to be better prepared earlier.

New bodies in the squad. Doesn't matter if they've played or not. Rotation - at CB, FB, Midfield. He's looking for his best XI while trying to get results. It's not easy.

And to be better prepared, we'd have had to play more pre season games to get players match sharp, it's not exactly fitness, but match sharpness. They're all fit. But mentally it can take time too.

The league doesn't start taking shape until early November. If we are still playing shite by then it's to me to worry. For now I'm calm

shelfboy68 · Sep 19, 2019

spurs mental said:
New bodies in the squad. Doesn't matter if they've played or not. Rotation - at CB, FB, Midfield. He's looking for his best XI while trying to get results. It's not easy.

And to be better prepared, we'd have had to play more pre season games to get players match sharp, it's not exactly fitness, but match sharpness. They're all fit. But mentally it can take time too.

The league doesn't start taking shape until early November. If we are still playing shite by then it's to me to worry. For now I'm calm

Well we will see I think we are in for a inconsistent season.

spurs mental · Sep 19, 2019

shelfboy68 said:
Well we will see I think we are in for a inconsistent season.

Last season was inconsistent. We won't be this season.

shelfboy68 · Sep 19, 2019

spurs mental said:
Last season was inconsistent. We won't be this season.

Sorry mate I disagree we are already inconsistent.

THFC_SWE · Sep 20, 2019

I think a big part of the problem is our central midfield. We are too soft. Winks and Sissoko are not bad players, but I don't think their positioning is good enough for them to play togheter. It's way too easy to get in behind our central midfield.

Just for fun I checked some statistics from earlier seasons. In season 16/17, Wanyama had 2.6 tackles/game and Dembele had 2.1 tackles/game. Last season Sissoko had 1.3 tackles/game and Winks had 0.8 tackles/game. I know that statistics can be misleading, especially when we talk about tackling. A player with good positioning may tackle less because he's always in the right place. But I don't think Winks and Sissokos positioning is better than Wanayamas and Dembeles.

Actually, I think we need to sign a new destroyer to get some more physical presence in our midfield.

Shadydan · Sep 20, 2019

THFC_SWE said:
I think a big part of the problem is our central midfield. We are too soft. Winks and Sissoko are not bad players, but I don't think their positioning is good enough for them to play togheter. It's way too easy to get in behind our central midfield.

Just for fun I checked some statistics from earlier seasons. In season 16/17, Wanyama had 2.6 tackles/game and Dembele had 2.1 tackles/game. Last season Sissoko had 1.3 tackles/game and Winks had 0.8 tackles/game. I know that statistics can be misleading, especially when we talk about tackling. A player with good positioning may tackle less because he's always in the right place. But I don't think Winks and Sissokos positioning is better than Wanayamas and Dembele.

Actually, I think we need to sign a new destroyer to get some more physical presence in our midfield.

Whilst you're right comparing that team with this team is like night and day.

I keep making a point of this but we were pressing much better back then, making more tactical fouls, taking more risks, we had Kane pressing from the front and that would be the trigger for players behind him to press. You're right in a season about Wanyama and Dembele because with those two on the field our players would take liberties to press up high as they acted as a 'wall' and they used to clear up so many 2nd balls, don't forget the two wing backs were quick as well so no one was getting in behind them and again they could cover areas in the press very quickly.

I reckon Pochettino 6.0 is still finding a similar identity, we saw a glimpse of it against Palace.

THFC_SWE · Sep 20, 2019

Shadydan said:
Whilst you're right comparing that team with this team is like night and day.

I keep making a point of this but we were pressing much better back then, making more tactical fouls, taking more risks, we had Kane pressing from the front and that would be the trigger for players behind him to press. You're right in a season about Wanyama and Dembele because with those two on the field our players would take liberties to press up high as they acted as a 'wall' and they used to clear up so many 2nd balls, don't forget the two wing backs were quick as well so no one was getting in behind them and again they could cover areas in the press very quickly.

I reckon Pochettino 6.0 is still finding a similar identity, we saw a glimpse of it against Palace.

Imo, the night and day is mainly because of the central midfield (and to some extent our wingbacks). I think the lack of physical presence makes us lose control of the midfield too often. It's hard to compare a year to another like that, but I think the numbers show that something is lacking. And if you take a look at midfielders at other top clubs, they performed way more tackles than Winks and Sissoko. We need more physical presence in there.

coys200 · Sep 20, 2019

THFC_SWE said:
Imo, the night and day is mainly because of the central midfield (and to some extent our wingbacks). I think the lack of physical presence makes us lose control of the midfield too often. It's hard to compare a year to another like that, but I think the numbers show that something is lacking. And if you take a look at midfielders at other top clubs, they performed way more tackles than Winks and Sissoko. We need more physical presence in there.

An you get more physical presence in a footballer than Sissoko ?

spids · Sep 21, 2019

coys200 said:
An you get more physical presence in a footballer than Sissoko ?

Sissoko is not a DCM. He's big and tough, but he is reactive and does not read the game to proactively put himself in position to stop an attack. Makelele was tiny but probably the best DCM in the EPL era. Fernandinho at City has been the best DCM in the last 3 years because he reads the game and is in the right place to break up an attack when there is a turnover. He is also a great tactical fouler - he can do 5 or 6 before getting a yellow, whereas Winks and Sissoko get a yellow for their first foul as they usually have to pull someone back as they are out of position and the wrong side of the ball. We do not need someone to make more tackles in a more physical sense, we need someone to be in the right position to stop attacks before they become dangerous.

coys200 · Sep 21, 2019

But I’ve seen Sissoko cover the RB area fantastically. So not sure why he can’t do that in the middle of the park ?

spids · Sep 21, 2019

coys200 said:
But I’ve seen Sissoko cover the RB area fantastically. So not sure why he can’t do that in the middle of the park ?

Whilst covering the right flank Sissoko is running / viewing a straight line. Typically tracking a runner from deep. The main attributes required are discipline and athleticism. It is a reactive action. In DCM you need to know where the gaps are going to be in 4 or 5 seconds time. Proactively. This requires a “3D view” of the pitch and the ability to read the game two or three passes ahead of play.

Shadydan · Sep 21, 2019

spids said:
Whilst covering the right flank Sissoko is running / viewing a straight line. Typically tracking a runner from deep. The main attributes required are discipline and athleticism. It is a reactive action. In DCM you need to know where the gaps are going to be in 4 or 5 seconds time. Proactively. This requires a “3D view” of the pitch and the ability to read the game two or three passes ahead of play.

Not even athleticism, its reading the game and anticipating the play more than anything, Bit random but Michael Carrick was so good at doing that, always being in the correct position and snuffing out attacks before they got to the danger area.

spids · Sep 21, 2019

Shadydan said:
Not even athleticism, its reading the game and anticipating the play more than anything, Bit random but Michael Carrick was so good at doing that, always being in the correct position and snuffing out attacks before they got to the danger area.

You’ve clearly not read my post properly fella. That’s exactly what I said. Covering a full back wide required athleticism - playing DCM requires anticipation.

Shadydan · Sep 21, 2019

spids said:
You’ve clearly not read my post properly fella. That’s exactly what I said. Covering a full back wide required athleticism - playing DCM requires anticipation.

I have read your post hence me saying that you don't necessarily need supreme athleticism hence me bringing up Micheal Carrick who was excellent at reading the game.

spids · Sep 21, 2019

Shadydan said:
I have read your post hence me saying that you don't necessarily need supreme athleticism hence me bringing up Micheal Carrick who was excellent at reading the game.

Doh! Ffs read my post!!!! I was talking about the difference between covering a FB in wide midfield (athleticism and discipline required) versus playing as a DCM where anticipation and reading of the game is required. You are saying exactly what I said whilst trying to disagree with me. I was responding to someone who said Sissoko covered RB well so could be a good DCM.

Shadydan · Sep 21, 2019

spids said:
Doh! Ffs read my post!!!! I was talking about the difference between covering a FB in wide midfield (athleticism and discipline required) versus playing as a DCM where anticipation and reading of the game is required. You are saying exactly what I said whilst trying to disagree with me. I was responding to someone who said Sissoko covered RB well so could be a good DCM.

Alight mate calm down sorry lol

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