The Y Word

Newbops · Aug 13, 2019

My personal view is that we should move on and move away from the Y word. Not because it is banned (in future) or because of Baddiel or anyone. But because we have so many positive things around our club these days - why should we let this detract from these?

stewartd · Aug 13, 2019

Newbops said:
My personal view is that we should move on and move away from the Y word. Not because it is banned (in future) or because of Baddiel or anyone. But because we have so many positive things around our club these days - why should we let this detract from these?

It only detracts if youthink it does

Saoirse · Aug 13, 2019

Newbops said:
My personal view is that we should move on and move away from the Y word. Not because it is banned (in future) or because of Baddiel or anyone. But because we have so many positive things around our club these days - why should we let this detract from these?

For me it doesn't detract from anything at all. On the contrary - celebrating our history of standing together against vile fascists, standing together because we're all Spurs regardless of faith, beliefs, race, sexuality, gender or anything else, being one of the only sets of supporters who stuck by their minorities rather than chucking them under a bus, is one of the most positive and proudest things I hold dear about being a Tottenham fan. And it's every bit as relevent today as it was in decades past.

'O Zio · Aug 13, 2019

Newbops said:
My personal view is that we should move on and move away from the Y word. Not because it is banned (in future) or because of Baddiel or anyone. But because we have so many positive things around our club these days - why should we let this detract from these?

Why should we when it's an important and significant part of our club's history and identity? I don't think it detracts from anything at all. The fact that we sing about being yids as opposed to some generic meaningless thing like "the reds/blues" etc. is something that should be celebrated IMO.

absolute bobbins · Aug 13, 2019

HairyHotspur said:
As a non Jewish Spurs fan, I sing "Anglican army". It is our real heritage after all.

Not onward Christian soldier?

yankspurs · Aug 13, 2019

NayimFTHL said:
Yep one side has to start the process which I believe the club are beginning to do. We have to take the lead because other clubs wont do it first. For them, they will call us f****** y*** because we call ourselves that.

No. Next.

THFCjosh · Aug 13, 2019

Getting rid of a word that has been used to essentially show solidarity with those being discriminated against just seems completely pointless. We are targeting those protecting and supporting the victims rather than those doing the crime.

'O Zio · Aug 13, 2019

NayimFTHL said:
For them, they will call us f****** y*** because we call ourselves that.

You've been told numerous times now that that's not what happened but you just keep ignoring anything everyone says to you. Why bother starting a thread if all you're going to do it repeat the same thing over and over regardless of what anyone says?

CowInAComa · Aug 13, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't the word "yid" literally translate as "Jew" in Yiddish?

Therefore, isn't the problem not that people use the word "Jew", but the hate and negativity that people have towards people of Jewish faith?

So by being scared or uncomfortable to use it, are you not simply cowing to that hate?

Maybe I'm oversimplifying things, but I don't think it's that hard to understand.

Negro means black. Paki is short for pakistani.

Why should we stop at yid? Let's fight the hate by re-appropriating these words too.

Gassin's finest · Aug 13, 2019

CowInAComa said:
Negro means black. Paki is short for pakistani.

Why should we stop at yid? Let's fight the hate by re-appropriating these words too.

Is negro a Swahili or Yoruba word? Or is it an outdated Latin word from a less enlightened era?

Do people speaking Urdu or Punjabi call themselves Pakistani, and then abbreviate it down? Or is it just a lazy English abbreviation?

Legit questions. I'm not sure. But if not, then its not at all comparable is it?

Lilbaz · Aug 13, 2019

CowInAComa said:
Negro means black. Paki is short for pakistani.

Why should we stop at yid? Let's fight the hate by re-appropriating these words too.

Look at it the other way. Slope, frog, fat, mug, pussy, mick all words that somebody might find offensive. Should we ban them all and make it an arrestible offence? Negro is the spanish word for black. Should we arrest any spanish teachers who use it in class?

Or does context matter?

Gassin's finest · Aug 13, 2019

CowInAComa · Aug 13, 2019

Lilbaz said:
Look at it the other way. Slope, frog, fat, mug, pussy, mick all words that somebody might find offensive. Should we ban them all and make it an arrestible offence? Negro is the spanish word for black. Should we arrest any spanish teachers who use it in class?

Or does context matter?

Does context matter is exactly the point I made.

CowInAComa · Aug 13, 2019

Gassin's finest said:
Is negro a Swahili or Yoruba word? Or is it an outdated Latin word from a less enlightened era?

Do people speaking Urdu or Punjabi call themselves Pakistani, and then abbreviate it down? Or is it just a lazy English abbreviation?

Legit questions. I'm not sure. But if not, then its not at all comparable is it?

Its entirety comparable.
they are words that were appropriated as an insult despite having a non offensive origin.

One of these words you still quite like saying. There's the only difference.

Lilbaz · Aug 13, 2019

CowInAComa said:
Its entirety comparable.
they are words that were appropriated as an insult despite having a non offensive origin.

One of these words you still quite like saying. There's the only difference.

If those words can be changed to mean something positive then why shouldn't they be reappropriated? It's better than them being derogatory no?

oohaahedgar · Aug 13, 2019

I thought it was class when we sang it back to moronic fans of other clubs in the 70s and 80s.
But I think the time has come to move on. We aren’t a Jewish club, we have Jewish fans in the same way we have Arab fans, African, Asian and whoever fans. I love the cosmopolitan make up of our fan base.
Well meaning and non racist fans of other other clubs casually say Yids when they mention spurs fans. When I’m abroad people think we are a Jewish club. I’m sick of explaining how we came to be known like that. If we sang it to say Chelsea fans doing the hissing sounds then ? sing it back, solidarity to our Jewish fans an all. But referring to ourselves constantly as Yids has had its day ( in my opinion). To me we are Tottenham or Spurs not Yids.

Lilbaz · Aug 13, 2019

oohaahedgar said:
I thought it was class when we sang it back to moronic fans of other clubs in the 70s and 80s.
But I think the time has come to move on. We aren’t a Jewish club, we have Jewish fans in the same way we have Arab fans, African, Asian and whoever fans. I love the cosmopolitan make up of our fan base.
Well meaning and non racist fans of other other clubs casually say Yids when they mention spurs fans. When I’m abroad people think we are a Jewish club. I’m sick of explaining how we came to be known like that. If we sang it to say Chelsea fans doing the hissing sounds then ? sing it back, solidarity to our Jewish fans an all. But referring to ourselves constantly as Yids has had its day ( in my opinion). To me we are Tottenham or Spurs not Yids.

We have been known as yids for 50 years. People will always link the word yid to tottenham fans. It's not going to change if we stop sining it. At least not for a couple of generations..

oohaahedgar · Aug 13, 2019

Start now then.

Lilbaz said:
We have been known as yids for 50 years. People will always link the word yid to tottenham fans. It's not going to change if we stop sining it. At least not for a couple of generations..

Gassin's finest · Aug 13, 2019

CowInAComa said:
Its entirety comparable.
they are words that were appropriated as an insult despite having a non offensive origin.

One of these words you still quite like saying. There's the only difference.

No it isn't. Yid is a Jewish word for Jew. The act of calling a Jew, a Jew, is not offensive. It's their word for themselves. The offense is in the hatred. Its the identification of a Jew as a bad thing. Which is wrong. Therefore, someone shouldn't have to stop referring to themselves by their own name, just because someone else doesn't like them. The intent is the problem, not the word.

Negro and Paki are words used by white people, to lazily and arrogantly categorise entire populations. Words that have become so dangerously ingrained that even well meaning, but oblivious people use it. In these cases it is the word that is the problem, as much as the intent.

My use or non use is neither here nor there. I am not Jewish so I don't have a say in the matter. But your example is inconsistent.

Gassin's finest · Aug 13, 2019

oohaahedgar said:
I thought it was class when we sang it back to moronic fans of other clubs in the 70s and 80s.
But I think the time has come to move on. We aren’t a Jewish club, we have Jewish fans in the same way we have Arab fans, African, Asian and whoever fans. I love the cosmopolitan make up of our fan base.
Well meaning and non racist fans of other other clubs casually say Yids when they mention spurs fans. When I’m abroad people think we are a Jewish club. I’m sick of explaining how we came to be known like that. If we sang it to say Chelsea fans doing the hissing sounds then ? sing it back, solidarity to our Jewish fans an all. But referring to ourselves constantly as Yids has had its day ( in my opinion). To me we are Tottenham or Spurs not Yids.

Again, its not for me to decide, but I can't really disagree with this viewpoint.

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