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Harry Winks - Leicester City

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Even funner stat, Winks completed the most passes of any player on the opening weekend of the season, and only played 64 minutes.

The evidence is there that he’s contributing massively, both in terms of ball retention and moving the play forward. If he had a slit in his eye brow, elaborate tattoo, a shaped beard and bleached hair he’d get so much more respect.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.

WInks OnLY pASes SiDeWaYs aND BaCKwards ThOUgh
 

theShiznit

Well-Known Member
Jul 26, 2004
17,800
23,813
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.
And all that before their heads dropped and they lost their shape.

pretty impressive, just think what he could've done if kept on with all that lovely space between the lines...
 

NickHSpurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 14, 2004
13,626
11,875
I don't get the obsession that every fucking pass MUST go forwards and that it's negative to pass sideways or backwards. It's such a boring, lazy argument by people who need educating on how football is played, especially in the role Winks is asked to perform.

What's he supposed to do if every person in front of him is covered by their man marking them? What happens if there's absolutely no movement in front of him? What is he supposed to do? Pass it forwards and lose the ball just because Dave in the stand can only concentrate on one player at a time and groans every single time a pass goes sideways or god forbid, backwards! Who cares about keeping possession :banghead:
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,830
I don't get the obsession that every fucking pass MUST go forwards and that it's negative to pass sideways or backwards. It's such a boring, lazy argument by people who need educating on how football is played, especially in the role Winks is asked to perform.

What's he supposed to do if every person in front of him is covered by their man marking them? What happens if there's absolutely no movement in front of him? What is he supposed to do? Pass it forwards and lose the ball just because Dave in the stand can only concentrate on one player at a time and groans every single time a pass goes sideways or god forbid, backwards! Who cares about keeping possession :banghead:

I couldn't agree more with this. The constant groans or moaning when we recycle the ball and keep possession are so tiresome. We've been doing it for years now and it works so why the need to go forward and lose the ball
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
I don't get the obsession that every fucking pass MUST go forwards and that it's negative to pass sideways or backwards. It's such a boring, lazy argument by people who need educating on how football is played, especially in the role Winks is asked to perform.

What's he supposed to do if every person in front of him is covered by their man marking them? What happens if there's absolutely no movement in front of him? What is he supposed to do? Pass it forwards and lose the ball just because Dave in the stand can only concentrate on one player at a time and groans every single time a pass goes sideways or god forbid, backwards! Who cares about keeping possession :banghead:

Agree.

Honestly if fans can’t see the world class potential Winks has for both spurs and England they’re beyond help.
 

CowInAComa

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
7,293
18,237
Luka Modric passes back only when he needs to
Winks passes back out of habit, no one was breathing down his neck yet a back pass??? joke..

Luka Modric would makes himsef available after a back pass. He is constantly demanding for the ball. He wants to dictate play.
Winks would play a backpass and you could see he is visibly relieved after doing so, steping aside to let the centre back dictate play.

Luka Modric can dribble consistently, play those fast one twos, and is always under control even in tight situation. He does all that each and every game.
Winks only dribble instintively, the highlight against Aston Villa being the case in point, wait another 20 games for something similar from him.

If modric is your benchmark then get used to a lifetime of disappointment.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I always though Carrick was a play it side ways type of player for us, he got better after he left.
He was, and he was by far the best player in that team that almost finished 4th.

Sometimes passing sideways is the right move, sometimes passing backwards is the right move.

This is all about playing the ball back and around to shift the defensive shape and open up space. This is a tactical trained maneuver, its used for positional play (basically creating overloads or moving the opposition to create space) and transitional play (how to move the ball from defense to attack). Its not some random part of the game.

Carrick even more so, was good at taking the ball under pressure and making simple passes, into space. A vital part of a holding midfielder. One of the main roles of this position is to dictate pace and keep possession, not to take many risks on the ball.

Winks is playing very much as a holding midfielder these days, and he does need to improve in some aspects, but you can't expect him to be some kind of hyper positive player, or even Modric (who normally plays partnered with a holder), his position is fundamentally to follow and help enact the tactical plan, keep the ball, be available to other players, provide defensive cover and block opposition passing lanes.

Almost every player who plays these positions have fans who don't get them, but almost every team has them. Because the role is intrinsically risk adverse and its impact is often hidden from view. But, when they are good they can have a massive impact on the teams they play for.

Both Tottenham and Man utd failed to replace Carrick, and both were seriously damaged by losing him in there team. But some Spurs fans still don't seem to recognize his importance to that team. Incredible really.
 

CowInAComa

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
7,293
18,237
He was, and he was by far the best player in that team that almost finished 4th.

Sometimes passing sideways is the right move, sometimes passing backwards is the right move.

This is all about playing the ball back and around to shift the defensive shape and open up space. This is a tactical trained maneuver, its used for positional play (basically creating overloads or moving the opposition to create space) and transitional play (how to move the ball from defense to attack). Its not some random part of the game.

Carrick even more so, was good at taking the ball under pressure and making simple passes, into space. A vital part of a holding midfielder. One of the main roles of this position is to dictate pace and keep possession, not to take many risks on the ball.

Winks is playing very much as a holding midfielder these days, and he does need to improve in some aspects, but you can't expect him to be some kind of hyper positive player, or even Modric (who normally plays partnered with a holder), his position is fundamentally to follow and help enact the tactical plan, keep the ball, be available to other players, provide defensive cover and block opposition passing lanes.

Almost every player who plays these positions have fans who don't get them, but almost every team has them. Because the role is intrinsically risk adverse and its impact is often hidden from view. But, when they are good they can have a massive impact on the teams they play for.

Both Tottenham and Man utd failed to replace Carrick, and both were seriously damaged by losing him in there team. But some Spurs fans still don't seem to recognize his importance to that team. Incredible really.

I was never hugely sold on Carrick. Think he was overrated.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
We signed Carrick when he was 23 and he was still FAR from being the player he became.

Winks is also on 23 and basically at the same stage of his career.

It amazes me that people don’t realise how long it takes players to fully develop.

Unfortunately they tend to be the same people that questioned Kane when he was younger.

Some World class legends were playing non league at 21.

Time is needed. He's on an upward trajectory which is the main thing.
 

nedley

John Duncan's Love Child
Jul 28, 2006
13,942
28,069
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.

I'm afraid people just DON'T want to see it.

Subborness.
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,705
23,267
Both Tottenham and Man utd failed to replace Carrick, and both were seriously damaged by losing him in there team. But some Spurs fans still don't seem to recognize his importance to that team. Incredible really.

Errr, I think you’re forgetting Zokora...
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Unfortunately they tend to be the same people that questioned Kane when he was younger.

Some World class legends were playing non league at 21.

Time is needed. He's on an upward trajectory which is the main thing.
I think the position of holding midfielder, or deep lying playmaker is also one of the most difficult to to learn. There is so much going on at every moment, you don’t get time to rest like a CB or a striker. You’re constantly in the game having to make decisions. Experience is vital for learning the role properly.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Errr, I think you’re forgetting Zokora...
Yep, exactly a different and more limited player who, while far from awful, couldn't effectively dictate play. Zokora was perfectly competent at the defensive side of a holder but less so at setting tempo and the rhythm of the team. If we played with a double pivot Zok would have been much more effective, but we played 442 with an uncreative defence. People like Winks and Carrick in that position can and do play more penetrative passes,when the occasion presents itself, as well as more range to essentially more effectively release players or work quicker in transition. Its like zokora is much more like playing Dier in the role. Winks is more like Carrick.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.
Nah but my EYES are telling me he doesngt pass forwards and only passes backwards and only passes sideways and my eyes are the best because theyre mine and i dont need no stats to tell me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards because my eyes told me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards and my eyes are more reliable than facts because i know football and in football harry winks only passes sideways and he only passes bakwards and my eyes told me he does
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.

I can’t believe anyone can moan about him. Those that do, probably don’t understand his role in the team. Maybe if his name was Harrio Winksiniho their attitudes would be different?
 
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