So how does this actually work. There will be roughly 9k tickets to sell per match. Are you saying a large chunk of that will go to travel agents ? Otherwise how else are the tourists getting tickets ?
New Stadium Details And Discussions
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So how does this actually work. There will be roughly 9k tickets to sell per match. Are you saying a large chunk of that will go to travel agents ? Otherwise how else are the tourists getting tickets ?
Saoirse
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- Aug 20, 2013
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It's a neat theory, but to me doesn't add up. Yes tourists have a higher match-day spend, but there's a very significant trade off which is a much lower guarenteed spend. If the team isn't performing to (very high) expectations, the fixture in inconvienient, or it's just an unappealing game - early in the league cup, a dead-rubber, or some eleven-behind-the-ball-and-hoof-it merchants - the tourists don't show up, you don't get their concession spend and most importantly you don't get their ticket revenue. If you focus on season tickets instead, you have huge guarenteed revenue for every game that can only drop off between seasons, and even then because of the loyalty of those fans and scarcity of STs needs a pretty drastic and sudden situation to do so (~35% price hikes this year weren't enough: we're talking something like trying to maintain those prices if the club drops back to 60 points and a Europa spot and loses Poch and/or key players). That's why Levy hasn't tried to increase the number of tourists (actually, it's about to get very hard for tourists to get tickets once we're at the new ground), but instead to increase the proportion of season tickets and year-long (or longer!) corporate packages to unprecedentedly high levels - 50k out of a 62k capacity. Add in the away fans (normally 3,000) and you're guarenteed a near sell-out for every league match, and a lot of people used to going regularly as a potent pool to sell cup tickets to.
We've actually had a brilliant example of what the tourist stratetgy would look like for the first of this season with effectively zero season-ticket holders and everybody choosing which games to attend on a match-by-match basis because of the stadium situation. Yes, I'm sure the tourists at the Barce, Inter, City, Chelsea and Liverpool games brought a lot of crap from the shop, plenty of hot dogs, gave the club a nice number of likes, shares and follows on Instagram. But when we play a mid-table or worse side in the Premier League, they're not there, and ticket revenue is abysmal. We got 33k for Southampton. At NWHL we would be guarenteed 53k from STs, corporate and away sales, and even with very mediocre sells to members and the general public would get to at least 58k. That's 25k tickets at ~£50 a pop - £1.25m, or in other words an awful lot of hot dogs and selfie sticks.
I'd say the plan is less about tourists, and more about changing the type of person who holds a season ticket. Tourists have a strong match-day spend compared to 'traditional working class' fans who've been following us since pre-Jol, but so do the types of people who weren't so interested when we were shit, can more feasibly afford £1,000 a year or more, and work professional jobs. They have more money to spend, less time to spend it in (more likely to buy in-ground rather than bother with pubs and food options elsewhere), and are willing to buy into the idea of megastores, merchandise for the whole family and increasingly social media engagement to boot. Obviously there's overlap here, and by no means am I saying that these types are less 'real' fans. But from a business perspective the aim is to replace those from the former group who don't earn much, aren't that professional, and just want a match, a sing-along and a beer in the pub, with those from the latter who buy into the club's idea of a "matchday experience".
Now there is one major risk with this strategy which is that these newer fans you've convinced to buy season tickets are less likely to be loyal and inclined to stick around if things take a turn for the worse on the pitch. But this risk can and has been mitigated. Firstly, you make certain there's a narrative of the club being well-run, with a strong academy, a core of players who love and care about the club - of a club in prime position to bounce back from an upset. Secondly, there's inherent mitigation from their relative wealth - the less the impact of the financial commitment, the less inclined they'll be to rid themselves of it. Thirdly, you if anything put the price high to begin with, so you can afford a feelgood drop if need be. Fourthly, you create the impression of scarcity by a cleverly inflated waiting list, making people think they'll never get it back if they give it up and the club recovers (missing out on cup finals etc too!). And best of all, you lock people into multi-year packages so they simply can't leave after a bad year - that's something we've already done with premium seats, and has featured on every survey in the last few years - I expect it's in the works pretty soon as an option for all ST holders, with an incentive such as a slightly cheaper price, free domestic cup tickets in the early rounds, and/or discounts on food and drink.
LexingtonSpurs
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No - not at all. And I am using the term "tourists" a bit like it was earlier in the thread - people who don't/can't get season tickets but still want to go to the occasional match. Certainly, there will be some actual "tourists" who want to experience the stadium, who may not be Spurs fans specifically. But, what I think Levy is counting on is a larger number of fans who go to one or two matches per year.
I do think you will find a lot of luke-warm Spurs supporters who will go to matches to be seen - because I think it will be a place where people want to go - bring/entertain clients, etc. That is why you see all the attention to the details in the hospitality areas of the stadium.
But, Levy is expecting an in-stadium up-tick in spending from everyone - that is just common sense. The easiest way to bump the per capita spend is with a larger percentage of one-offs. The season ticket holders will not increase their spend at every single match - there is only so much swag to buy...but, they will be expected to buy more beer/drinks and food.
LexingtonSpurs
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I think this is spot on. There is no doubt in my mind, that Levy is targetting more higher-earners to the stadium as both season-ticket holders, and one-offs.
Saoirse
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With one-offs the priority is very clearly about reducing their number as much as possible, not about extracting as much as we can from those we still have. There's only around 8.5k seats available for one-offs every match, most of which is going to be snapped up by the more alert members very quickly, especially for the high-demand games you can actually attract tourists for. Priority One is consistent revenue, Priority Two is making that as high as possible, and this is a case where they clearly conflict - the only way to get tourists in is to reduce the demand elsewhere, because they're by definition not the hardcore fans who'll buy a membership, check an on-sale date, and queue with three different browsers open for it. I'm sure we'll try through the back-door which is reserving some tickets for travel agents, Thomas Cock-it-up pacakges etc as a bonus, but that's all it is. If your plan revolves around tourists you don't lock them out.
LexingtonSpurs
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I don't think Levy sees these goals as in conflict - I know I would not if I were in his shoes.
Levy is expecting to fill the stadium in all matches - big and small. When the opponent is not the draw, Levy is betting on the stadium being the draw. He wants the experience to be such a positive experience - in terms of amenities - that people will go just to enjoy the stadium.
So, if he starts with the assumption that the stadium will be filled - that is his "consistent" revenue.
The next goal is to maximize spend by each person in the stadium. For the hard-core season ticket holders, he wants to see a slight uptick in per-match spend - buy more beer! But, these folks will have a lower increase, compared to the spend they have now - and they have already committed a good chunk of money (as a percentage of their disposable income) in terms of season-tickets. Spurs are clearly targetting higher spenders - with things like the Tunnel Club, and the Sky Club, and any of the other facilities on the club level (in addition to more luxury boxes in general). Those people will help the overall average spend. The next group to target are the people who can only go 1-2 times per year. Levy is marketing the Stadium, and eventually the surrounding areas, as a destination spot. The largest club store is not there just to brag about - its there to get more people in and out, buying more merchandise.
I have never run a stadium, but I have run several businesses where I sat down each year with my sales managers and talked about growing our customer base, but also growing our net-spend by each customer - get them to buy more products. This is pretty standard stuff for any business in any industry - I am not breaking new ground here. You can see that Levy is doing everything he can to make spending easier (cashless system, bottom-up taps, etc), and enticing.
Saoirse
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That is one hell of an assumption to make, especially when we appear to have two London rivals who've opened new grounds with that exact assumption and seen it go very wrong very quickly. And I also just can't see the evidence that this is what he's doing. Yes, increase the number of high-spenders who also go to every game, that's a win-win. But if your aim is like you say more people who only go 1-2 times per year, you don't fill the stadium as much as you can with people who buy for the entire year at once! Away end excluded, we only have 18% of the ground available to people who aren't on yearly or longer pacakages, compared to 30% back at WHL.
LexingtonSpurs
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Right - but you are looking for more raw numbers of people who go 1-2 times. I am not saying you want more of those than season-ticket holders. You simply want more than you had at WHL - and that is virtually certain.
You also have season-ticket holders who wont go to every match - they may well sell/give their ticket to someone else for a match or two - and those people become part of the crowd who will spend more money.
It does not really matter how you slice it - the goal is to increase per capita spend on matchday - this I will guarantee. The two easiest groups to get that from are "higher earners" and "Infrequent Fans" - and that is what Levy/Spurs will be counting on to reach their targetted increase. Spurs also want season ticket holders to spend more - the reality is its harder to gett too much more from most of that group.
Saoirse
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Is it? At White Hart Lane we had 20k ST holders, 3k away and 36k capacity - I think (but not sure on this bit) 2k boxes, leaving 11k for one-off purchases. At the new ground that's 9k. All of the capacity increase and possibly then some has gone on STs and Premium, not one-offs. Perhaps some of the more regular members are now ST holders and will be replaced by one-off people, but I wouldn't call it certain, and it sure doesn't look like a plan to increase their number.
LexingtonSpurs
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How many of the 11K were repeat purchases by members?
And, how much opportunity was there to increase per capita spend at WHL? Compare that with the new stadium - in terms of amenities, and ease (and amount) of purchases.
Again, I think we are arguing over minute details - the goal of any business is to increase the net spend per customer (in addition to increasing customers). Spurs are not the exception to the rule. The ROI they are factoring into the stadium - and surrounding development - is to increase that match-day spend per person, and there are easy ways to do that, and hard ways to do that. I am suggesting Spurs are trying to do this the easier way, rather than the harder way.
davidmatzdorf
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Without disagreeing with the points about increasing match day revenue by selling people stuff before and after matches, I also have to add, again, the other reason why there has been so much effort to attract people at arrive well before kickoff and stay after the final whistle: because the transport strategy, which relies on improved local buses and the trains, depends on staggering the arrivals and especially the departures.
Flashspur
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You had me at ‘it’s a neat theory’ FFS
vegassd
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I don't think that Lex is saying there is necessarily a desire to increase the number of occasional fans, but rather to grab more money from them when they do attend as opposed to what was possible at the old ground.
There will be thousands of fans around the country who can't go to many games and when they do it's through a mate's membership or general sale on a "lesser" game or whatever. But with the new bars and food places in the stadium there is more of an incentive to get into the ground early and eat/drink there rather than finding a pub before the match. Same on the way out, assuming they keep everything open.
It's a nice idea that we will have a stadium packed to capacity with die hard fans every week, but the reality is that not all the die hards can attend all the games. So when they lend their ST to their colleague/mate for a game it would make a lot of business sense to have that new chap spend £20 on beer inside the stadium rather than down the Bricklayer's.
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1882andallthat
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I suspect I'm not the only one to notice this but this thread on the new stadium is at or about to enter page 1882, how fitting !! COYS
spursfan77
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- Aug 13, 2005
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It’s not about tourists it’s about the corporate provision!
The main income generated by the stadium won’t be through our general admission seats but the corporate offerings. From the £3,500 premium seats in the stadium to the £30,000 pa for the tunnel club.
It will dwarf what mr & mrs tourist and kid’s will spend at the stadium. Even if they are stuffing themselves with pints of Gamma Ray and bagels!
The main income generated by the stadium won’t be through our general admission seats but the corporate offerings. From the £3,500 premium seats in the stadium to the £30,000 pa for the tunnel club.
It will dwarf what mr & mrs tourist and kid’s will spend at the stadium. Even if they are stuffing themselves with pints of Gamma Ray and bagels!
archiewasking
Waiting for silverware..........
- Jul 5, 2004
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I'm just really hoping there will be the chance to get ad hoc tickets. I only go to one or two matches per season as I either can't get tickets or I just can't afford them. I would love to be a season ticket holder, but I've currently got more chance of swimming to the moon.
Next week
worcestersauce
"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
- Jan 23, 2006
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In the early days there were arguments that 60,000 was too big and we wouldn't fill it, now it seems we are arguing that we don't want tourists taking tickets because there's not enough to go round, well I guess that shows we've raised our level of optimism.
I also wonder if there is a confusion between "Tourists" and "plastics"
To my mind, come one come all, I'm actually pleased to see so many Koreans at our games nowadays and hopefully they'll keep coming during our upcoming glory years.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to our big announcement today.
I also wonder if there is a confusion between "Tourists" and "plastics"
To my mind, come one come all, I'm actually pleased to see so many Koreans at our games nowadays and hopefully they'll keep coming during our upcoming glory years.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to our big announcement today.
