West Ham fans caught chanting anti-semitic songs about Tottenham

davidmatzdorf

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Spurslove

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"West Ham have vowed to ban a group of supporters filmed engaging in antisemitic chants on their way to the club’s Premier League match at Manchester United.

"In the latest in a recent series of incidents of racist abuse in football, the group were filmed singing an abusive song about rivals Tottenham on a tram before the game at Old Trafford, which West Ham lost 2-1."


https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...r-fans-are-filmed-chanting-antisemitic-abuse?
I just wonder in these days of social media where images, messages and live film can be recorded so instantly, just how much of an absolute moron you'd have to be to engage in this sort of behaviour in a public place. I know it's West Ham fans we're talking about, but even so, it beggars belief. What utter scum.

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davidmatzdorf

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I just wonder in these days of social media where images, messages and live film can be recorded so instantly, just how much of an absolute moron you'd have to be to engage in this sort of behaviour in a public place.
That was my main point in posting this - not that West Ham fans engage in anti-semitic chants. We know that - as your man already said above, water is wet.

It's a sign of the power of peer pressure and the effect of echo chambers that it has occurred to no one that their behaviour was out of the normal range of football enthusiasm, that perhaps they should STFU when recording devices were present.

Most teams have fans who do this. West Ham have an unusually large number of self-reinforcing recidivists. One of ours chucked a banana skin on the pitch recently.

What interested me about this was the normalisation and the effect of peer pressure.
 

Spurslove

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That was my main point in posting this - not that West Ham fans engage in anti-semitic chants. We know that - as your man already said above, water is wet.

It's a sign of the power of peer pressure and the effect of echo chambers that it has occurred to no one that their behaviour was out of the normal range of football enthusiasm, that perhaps they should STFU when recording devices were present.

Most teams have fans who do this. West Ham have an unusually large number of self-reinforcing recidivists. One of ours chucked a banana skin on the pitch recently.

What interested me about this was the normalisation and the effect of peer pressure.
Indeed. We all know football (and wider society) these days is rife with idiots, racists, keyboard warriors, trolls and God knows what else. We all know what the problem is, but nobody thus far has come up with a tangible answer. You can't get toothpaste back in the tube. Morons such as the ones we're discussing, are seemingly quite brazen about behaving like a bunch of neanderthals in public, which frankly, is way beyond my understanding.

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Lighty64

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Indeed. We all know football (and wider society) these days is rife with idiots, racists, keyboard warriors, trolls and God knows what else. We all know what the problem is, but nobody thus far has come up with a tangible answer. You can't get toothpaste back in the tube. Morons such as the ones we're discussing, are seemingly quite brazen about behaving like a bunch of neanderthals in public, which frankly, is way beyond my understanding.

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Racism is extreme, and should be kicked out, but I don't think it will unfortunately. each generation that have racist views will pass/passed it onto their children and grandchildren. we can only hope 1 day we see the light, but doubt it in my life time, the only hope is it gets less and less.

West Ham have had a bad reputation for many generations and made 1 of their own players life hell Clyde Best. a lot of the supporters from those days are still going or their children grandchildren are going in their place (no one decides to support Spam these days, it's pass me downs).

In the last 2 visits I've heard it from our own
 

slartibartfast

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I can understand it.
If I thought it would get me a lifetime ban from the London Stadium and never have to watch West Ham again I'd sing about anything live on stage anywhere :ROFLMAO:
 
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davidmatzdorf

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Not sure why, David. Peer pressure and normalization of crap views, whatever the slant, is how it typically goes. This video was no different.
Yes. What I was getting at was the effect of peer pressure and normalisation, as revealed in the decision to keep singing this stuff - as if it were normal and to fit into the peer group - despite the fact that someone was recording it for posterity.

The slightest shred of self-awareness would have made someone say "hey! stop, someone is videoing this [i.e., we might get into trouble]". But it never crossed anyone's mind. That's the normalisation.
 
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What actually shows these pricks in a worse light? Are they unequivocal racists who’ve used the current climate to crawl out from their rock, or are these guys the kind of weak-minded morons who’ll jump on any kind of passing fad?
 
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doctor stefan Freud

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Yes. What I was getting at was the effect of peer pressure and normalisation, as revealed in the decision to keep singing this stuff - as if it were normal and to fit into the peer group - despite the fact that someone was recording it for posterity.

The slightest shred of self-awareness would have made someone say "hey! stop, someone is videoing this [i.e., we might get into trouble]". But it never crossed anyone's mind. That's the normalisation.
Normalisation and thick as fuckery. I’m not down playing it but these are the foot soldiers for any tyrant, not the generals
 

Coyboy

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It’s just banter.

Spurs fans call themselves Yiddos so what’s the difference.

You can’t say anything nowadays without offending someone.
 

NinjaTuna

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Racism is extreme, and should be kicked out, but I don't think it will unfortunately. each generation that have racist views will pass/passed it onto their children and grandchildren. we can only hope 1 day we see the light, but doubt it in my life time, the only hope is it gets less and less.

West Ham have had a bad reputation for many generations and made 1 of their own players life hell Clyde Best. a lot of the supporters from those days are still going or their children grandchildren are going in their place (no one decides to support Spam these days, it's pass me downs).

In the last 2 visits I've heard it from our own
What did they do to Clyde Best?
 

Gassin's finest

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It’s just banter.

Spurs fans call themselves Yiddos so what’s the difference.

You can’t say anything nowadays without offending someone.
Again, the last 4 years has broken my irony radar, and so I can't tell if this is sarcasm/satire or not anymore
 

Spurslove

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It’s just banter.

Spurs fans call themselves Yiddos so what’s the difference.

You can’t say anything nowadays without offending someone.
Assuming you're serious about this, I'd just like to point out to you the difference between brainless mobs using the 'Y' word' as a form of aggression, used precisely to cause us emotional pain and embarrassment...and the context in which we use it, as a badge of honour and self identification. When we use it it is not used aggressively.

It's all about context and it's why the authorities have given up on holding us to account on a number of occasions, and quite rightly.

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davidmatzdorf

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kinda agree that its not the same as racist abuse of black players.
And there you have the roots of liberal modern anti-semitism in a nutshell.

"It's not as bad as" ... [insert something else here].

Yes it fucking well is. It's identical. Just as bad.

Similarly rooted in genocide. Similarly rooted in deportations, expulsions and the destruction of communities. Similarly rooted in slave-labour.

A problem that Jews have with non-Jews who think they know the slightest thing about anti-semitism is that we are always being told how bad it isn't by people who have never experienced it.

I try to avoid lecturing my Black friends about racism. I try to avoid mansplaining feminism to my female friends. I strongly suggest that non-Jews stop telling us about anti-semitism. Ask some Jews. Be quiet and listen. Then talk.
 

davidmatzdorf

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Again, the last 4 years has broken my irony radar, and so I can't tell if this is sarcasm/satire or not anymore
Assuming you're serious about this, I'd just like to point out to you the difference between brainless mobs using the 'Y' word' as a form of aggression, used precisely to cause us emotional pain and embarrassment...and the context in which we use it, as a badge of honour and self identification. When we use it it is not used aggressively...
He wasn't. It was irony in need of an emoticon of some description.
 
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