VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

[nailsy]

I am not really sure how conclusive the film is. What I can say is that the on field decision was not clearly and obviously wrong therefore sticking with the decision of the referee is the right result. In cricket this is the approach taken and I think it is a good one as it keeps the officials on the pitch in charge of the game. the problem with our Rochdale game was decisions were overturned on less than obvious evidence which undermines the match officials completely

It's a strange concept that VAR isn't necessarily trying to get to the correct decision, but sometimes trying to see if the wrong decision was an acceptable error. I'm not sure football fans will ever accept allowing a decision that VAR has shown to be wrong.
With the Son offside decision they seemed to take ages trying to work out if it was offside when really it was so close either way that you could say within a few seconds that the linesman had made a reasonable decision.

What are you going on about lol?
Cut of grass? Dubious? Very odd?
The second image is computer generated from the first image...it takes reference points, i.e. Sons head, to show that he is clearly offside...not just about, look at his head in the first pic, compared to the heads of the defenders....there's no just offside about it, I have no idea why people are having trouble just accepting it tbh, thats the only thing that's odd imo.

I don't know why they don't move the lines to the part of the body that is offside. Why do they always show the line against the feet? it just creates confusion.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Very Abysmal Ridicule?

 

[Gb160]

It's a strange concept that VAR isn't necessarily trying to get to the correct decision, but sometimes trying to see if the wrong decision was an acceptable error. I'm not sure football fans will ever accept allowing a decision that VAR has shown to be wrong.
With the Son offside decision they seemed to take ages trying to work out if it was offside when really it was so close either way that you could say within a few seconds that the linesman had made a reasonable decision.



I don't know why they don't move the lines to the part of the body that is offside. Why do they always show the line against the feet? it just creates confusion.

That's a good point, surely those lines could be moved.

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

What are you going on about lol?
Cut of grass? Dubious? Very odd?
The second image is computer generated from the first image...it takes reference points, i.e. Sons head, to show that he is clearly offside...not just about, look at his head in the first pic, compared to the heads of the defenders....there's no just offside about it, I have no idea why people are having trouble just accepting it tbh, thats the only thing that's odd imo.

Sorry, I'm not disputing the decision as to me it's obvious from the first picture. However, I wasn't aware the second image was computer generated (i.e. manipulated), and thought it was meant to be a different angle/camera. If you'd mentioned that the second image was computer generated then maybe that would have saved any confusion rather than trying to make me look silly (I can manage that perfectly well myself ).

 

[Rout-Ledge]

I’m still baffled that they haven’t got this under control.

Does (1) a VAR review only take place in light of a clear and obvious error, or does, (2) following a VAR review, if an error is shown to be clear and obvious, a decision is made on the outcome?

Either way, they need to restrict the use of it to decisions that are objectively incorrect. Discussions are often had long after the game over whether a decision was right or wrong. VAR should not be used in respect of those decisions.

Offside should be a variety of decision that VAR can help with, but the use of it has been absolutely incompetent up to this point.

It seemed in the Rochdale game that VAR was being used to review every single goal, just for the hell of it. A great way to completely ruin the enjoyment in football.

 

[Gb160]

Sorry, I'm not disputing the decision as to me it's obvious from the first picture. However, I wasn't aware the second image was computer generated (i.e. manipulated), and thought it was meant to be a different angle/camera. If you'd mentioned that the second image was computer generated then maybe that would have saved any confusion rather than trying to make me look silly (I can manage that perfectly well myself ).

Fair enough mate, that wasn't my intention.

 

[Gb160]

I’m still baffled that they haven’t got this under control.

Does (1) a VAR review only take place in light of a clear and obvious error, or does, (2) following a VAR review, if an error is shown to be clear and obvious, a decision is made on the outcome?

Either way, they need to restrict the use of it to decisions that are objectively incorrect. Discussions are often had long after the game over whether a decision was right or wrong. VAR should not be used in respect of those decisions.

This is what I still don't understand tbh, it is used in any game changing event, so when any goal is scored, penalty awarded, sendings off etc.

But it was used in the Utd game when Mata scored, and it was deemed his kneecap was ever so slightly offside, so the goal was ruled out...but that wasn't a clear and obvious error, it was so tight it was ridiculous.
I don't really understand it tbh.

 

[TheChosenOne]

I see a lot of players now asking for VAR rulings.

The usual suspects of course.

 

[archiewasking]

I see a lot of players now asking for VAR rulings.

The usual suspects of course.

Saw a fair few of our fans miming TV screens in the Huddersfield match too.

 

[archiewasking]

That's a good point, surely those lines could be moved.

Move the lines, then the goalposts.........where will it all end??

 

[BehindEnemyLines]

Move the lines, then the goalposts.........where will it all end??

Personally, I'd much rather they changed the offside rule to feet as you can never tell from any single angle how far a player is leaning, and the feet are the only way to be sure as you lose a dimension to track ie you only need to track x&y rather than x, y&z, and only for the get rather than the whole body.

 

[cwy21]

For what it's worth, VAR has been doing a decent job in MLS this season. There have been a couple PK decisions where you could argue that VAR should or shouldn't have gotten involved with. I'm guessing with it being the 2nd season of full time VAR and having referees that specialize in being the VAR, we're seeing a more consistent and more efficient system.

 

[nailsy]

For what it's worth, VAR has been doing a decent job in MLS this season. There have been a couple PK decisions where you could argue that VAR should or shouldn't have gotten involved with. I'm guessing with it being the 2nd season of full time VAR and having referees that specialize in being the VAR, we're seeing a more consistent and more efficient system.

How does it work over there? Do they allow incorrect decisions if they view it as a reasonable error by the officials, or do they just want to get to the correct decision?

 

[cwy21]

How does it work over there? Do they allow incorrect decisions if they view it as a reasonable error by the officials, or do they just want to get to the correct decision?

It's supposed to be the same "clear and obvious error" standard that's applied in England, Germany, Portugal, Australia, etc.

Don't get me wrong, there have been controversial moments, but it seems to be running much smoother than other leagues. Hopefully Howard Webb, who helped start the system in MLS and now runs the referee organization can give FIFA some tips on how they got so many refs on the same page.

 

[cwy21]

I'll give an example from this weekend when Clint Dempsey was sent off for being Clint Dempsey and hitting a guy in the nuts before petulantly clapping in the refs face. The whole process took about 90 seconds and the VAR is showing the referee the one key replay that they need to make a decision. Most cases where the referee has gone over to the screen, they've looked at one replay and then gone with what the VAR has recommended. I haven't seen any cases of a match being held up for 3 or 4 minutes like in Poland and England.

https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...dempsey-sent-after-video-review?autoplay=true

 

['O Zio]

The thing that needs to happen is them sticking to their own rules. They quite clearly said at the start of the season that it would only be used if there had been a "clear and obvious error" and yet in so many games they keep faffing about for ages at a time on things that are so marginal that it doesn't really matter. If someone's kneecap or nose is 1mm offside then it makes zero difference to whether or not the goal would've been scored so just let it stand and it's something that regardless of how the ref/linesman ruled cannot possibly be called a "clear and obvious error"

For me, the key thing is that if even with slow motion replays/computer-generated lines or whatever it still takes you 2 minutes to make a decision one way or another then surely that fact alone tells you it wasn't a "clear and obvious error" by definition.

 

[NorSpur]

Thinking back on saturdays Son and VAR episode: If the VAR replay had shown Son to be in a clear onside position. Could VAR then give the goal since the ref blew the whistle and the goalie didn't make an attempt to save (not that he would have anyway in this situation)? And what if the keeper clearly stopped from the refs whistle and Son just rolled the ball into the net?

Would this be a situation where VAR would be unable to change the outcome, even if the referees made a clear and obvious error?

 

[cwy21]

Thinking back on saturdays Son and VAR episode: If the VAR replay had shown Son to be in a clear onside position. Could VAR then give the goal since the ref blew the whistle and the goalie didn't make an attempt to save (not that he would have anyway in this situation)? And what if the keeper clearly stopped from the refs whistle and Son just rolled the ball into the net?

Would this be a situation where VAR would be unable to change the outcome, even if the referees made a clear and obvious error?

No. The only way a goal can be given is if the ref delayed the whistle momentarily after the flag went up because a scoring chance was imminent. An example is the Leicester goal in the 4th? Round of the FA cup.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

No. The only way a goal can be given is if the ref delayed the whistle momentarily after the flag went up because a scoring chance was imminent. An example is the Leicester goal in the 4th? Round of the FA cup.

So why did they bother going to VAR?

 

[cwy21]

So why did they bother going to VAR?

I didn't watch the game and I've been unable to find a clip. If the whistle blew before Son put the ball in the net, then VAR shouldn't have even gotten involved since they would be unable to give the goal.