Timing is Everything

[Twizzle]

So we got beaten by a better team, they beat us in the midfield imo.

Quietest game I have seen from Modders and VDV in a long time, good audition from Pinear though.

I can now see why Harry wants to boost our midfield, there is daylight between VDV, Modders, Hudd, Bale, Lennon and Palacios JJ and Kranky et al.

I reckon Harry and Levy are seething after this game.

This loss couldn't have come at a better time, right in the transfer widow and highlighting where our lack of depth is.

Goes without saying our lack of strike power is our biggest problem and that was certainly highlighted as well, also shows how much we rely on Bale, Lennon and VDV to score our goals, they have carried us for most of the season.

I know I'm stating the bloody obvious but I really think this loss couldn't have come at a better time, so I'm trying to be positive here.

Now get our there with your shopping trolly Harry and shop till you drop.

 

[brett.spurs]

I thought VDV and Luka outperformed Pienaar tonight.

 

[StockSpur]

and i thought he is a more battling alternative to those two, vdv is almost a striker, he doesnt graft

 

[StockSpur]

we need a pienarr and a striker imho, we had noone to replace bale, krank needs games oltherwise he is doggy do.

 

[DEFchenkOE]

Agree that the result does highlight our weaknesses but it's nothing the management shouldn't have known already. Can't understand why Keane was brought on when the reports are that a fee has been agreed with Brum.

 

[mil1lion]

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. Harry and Levy will not be seething over 1 loss in 12. Last night doesn't change a damn thing in the transfer window. Our midfield is a lot stronger than Evertons, just had an off day and looked tired. Our midfield is strong enough to see out the season imo, but any improvements are welcome.

Bottom line is, we're 4th for a reason and it proves this team is still very much good enough to challenge for top 4 this season. Any improvements to the squad will give us a better chance, but we already have a quality squad.

I do think we'll sign Pienaar and Beckham this window though, to replace Giovani and Bentley. Hopefully a quality striker too.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I think the problems in central midfield have been overshadowed by our good attacking play in recent weeks. I still think we will always struggle defensively if we play what is effectively a 4-4-2 with two out and out wingers.

It creates a big gulf in the middle of the park which only two defensive midfielders would really fill properly and that would mean dropping Modric which isn't an option as he's been excellent this season.

We will win more than our fair share of games if we stick with this system purely because our attacking players are very good (and if we added a striker that win ratio would surely go up). But if we want to see more consistency I think in the long term we'll need to narrow the team a bit so that our midfield doesn't get overrun.

How we do that is a difficult issue. We can either move Bale to left back and put Modders on the left allowing us to play two more defensive minded/holding midfielders. Or we could sign someone like Pienaar who tucks in a bit more than Bale or Lennon (although that then means dropping either Bale or Lennon).

Just to add I'm not saying we've been bad recently and the current system makes for some fantastic football. I just think that if we really want to compete with the Man Utds of this world we may need to think about how to tighten it up a bit in midfield.

Anyway....COYS!

 

[JonnySpurs]

Sorry but this is complete nonsense. Harry and Levy will not be seething over 1 loss in 12. Last night doesn't change a damn thing in the transfer window. Our midfield is a lot stronger than Evertons, just had an off day and looked tired. Our midfield is strong enough to see out the season imo, but any improvements are welcome.

Bottom line is, we're 4th for a reason and it proves this team is still very much good enough to challenge for top 4 this season. Any improvements to the squad will give us a better chance, but we already have a quality squad.

I do think we'll sign Pienaar and Beckham this window though, to replace Giovani and Bentley. Hopefully a quality striker too.

This!

I would argue that playing Jenas over Palacios may not have been the best move by Harry as Wilson had been playing quite well and is more disruptive than JJ. Saha appeared to have way too much space to shoot for the first goal.

The only other real issue for me is the lack of goals from our strikers. Crouch is great with his assissts but as Harry pointed out, he shouldn't have been offside on that disallowed goal. Pav is far too inconsistent, Keane is about to leave and JD hasn't really been able to get started due to injuries and suspensions.

All our goals have come from midfield with Bale, VDV, Lennon and Luka doing all the work for us there and when you look at City with Balotelli, Tevez and now Dzeko, we all know where we need to upgrade during Jan. Throwing Becks in there for good measure can only help too with his experience and knowledge to help sustain already brilliant morale in the squad.

We had an off night, as long as we respond then we can maintain our top 4 status.

COYS

 

[stevenqoz]

We have used our squad very well this season and the timing of mishaps / injuries has tended to coincide with the reserves being able to step up well. Hutton took his opportunity....Bassong hasn't put a foot wrong.....VDV proved a revelation in spite of Harry's tactical preference.....Jenas played some of his best football for us stepping in for Hudd........Gallas has managed to induce a collective memory loss from our hardliners even grabbing the armband at times. Even our disfunctional forwards have managed to chime in at key times even if looking collectively lacking. We managed to get away with the luxury of letting Modric play himself back into fitness/form within the side. Lennon was doubted for a while and Bale convinced Harry to play him as a left wing back even if it wasn't his preference. Last night I felt we were finally found out as running on almost empty after a great xmas and new year. That said it was a game we could easily have won. Timing is everything we now have a relatively less important FA Cup tie to rest people and get some work into the legs of people like Krankjar and Sandro.

 

[Adam456]

I think the problems in central midfield have been overshadowed by our good attacking play in recent weeks. I still think we will always struggle defensively if we play what is effectively a 4-4-2 with two out and out wingers.

It creates a big gulf in the middle of the park which only two defensive midfielders would really fill properly and that would mean dropping Modric which isn't an option as he's been excellent this season.

We will win more than our fair share of games if we stick with this system purely because our attacking players are very good (and if we added a striker that win ratio would surely go up). But if we want to see more consistency I think in the long term we'll need to narrow the team a bit so that our midfield doesn't get overrun.

How we do that is a difficult issue. We can either move Bale to left back and put Modders on the left allowing us to play two more defensive minded/holding midfielders. Or we could sign someone like Pienaar who tucks in a bit more than Bale or Lennon (although that then means dropping either Bale or Lennon).

Just to add I'm not saying we've been bad recently and the current system makes for some fantastic football. I just think that if we really want to compete with the Man Utds of this world we may need to think about how to tighten it up a bit in midfield.

Anyway....COYS!

Noooooooooooooo ! So utterly knee-jerk TSH

It's got nothing to do with playing 2 wingers. All of the title-winning premiership teams have played with two (mostly pacy) wide men.

Man U - Giggs and Kanchelskis, Giggs and Beckham, Giggs and Nani/Valencia

Scum - Pires, Lundberg, Reyes (and Henry in free role of course)

Chelsea - Duff and Robben, Anelka and Malouda

Go removing our lightening quick wingers and opposition defences and we'll just have trouble scoring. Take that pace off the wing and you'll probably find us under more pressure as opposition full-backs more happily get forward in the knowledge that any break will be slow

It would be like switching off the water to mend a leak, instead of fixing the pipe

Nowithstanding that a lot of our goals conceded this season are a direct result of the CB injury crisis, it's about having discipline in the middle. Whether you play 442, 451, 433 (which is basically 451 when attacking) you have to try to avoid commiting all of your central players to the attack

 

[talkshowhost86]

Noooooooooooooo ! So utterly knee-jerk TSH

It's got nothing to do with playing 2 wingers. All of the title-winning premiership teams have played with two (mostly pacy) wide men.

Man U - Giggs and Kanchelskis, Giggs and Beckham, Giggs and Nani/Valencia

Scum - Pires, Lundberg, Reyes (and Henry in free role of course)

Chelsea - Duff and Robben, Anelka and Malouda

Go removing our lightening quick wingers and opposition defences and we'll just have trouble scoring. Take that pace off the wing and you'll probably find us under more pressure as opposition full-backs more happily get forward in the knowledge that any break will be slow

It would be like switching off the water to mend a leak, instead of fixing the pipe

Nowithstanding that a lot of our goals conceded this season are a direct result of the CB injury crisis, it's about having discipline in the middle. Whether you play 442, 451, 433 (which is basically 451 when attacking) you have to try to avoid commiting all of your central players to the attack

Of those examples you've given I think only Giggs and Kanchelskis can be said to be a pair of out and out wingers.

Beckham always tucked in more than Lennon or Bale, Giggs doesn't play as a left winger these days, neither Ljungberg or Pires stuck to their wings, Duff and Robben rarely played together and Malouda and Anelka, when they play in the same team, play in more of a 4-3-3 formation.

Two out and out wingers in a 4-4-2 is pretty rare these days and when we play it we leave alot of space for the opposition. I don't think there can be any doubt about that. This is compounded by the fact that Modders is at heart an attacking midfielder and although he's better defensively than many give him credit for he won't ever be a holding midfielder.

I think at home we can play with two wingers in lots of games and we'll outscore the opposition but against the better teams and away from home we need to have a way of tightening up in midfield. Chelsea dominated us in midfield, Villa had a fair chunk of possession and created loads of chances and it sounds like Everton controlled the midfield last night. Yes the defensive changes don't help but the ball gets through to our back four far too often.

I think having Huddlestone back will make a difference because he sits a bit more naturally than the rest of our midfielders which gives us a bit more shape but I still think that playing two out and out wingers will always leave us exposed in the middle.

The two options are to continue in the current vein and hope we outscore the opposition, which is great to watch, has worked alot recently and would be improved by having a better strikeforce. Or we tighten up a bit in midfield. We can't really have it both ways.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Oh and it's not knee-jerk at all. I've been saying for ages that two out and out wingers creates defensive problems. As I've said last nights performance was a poor one in what has been a very good season so we shouldn't be too negative. But that doesn't mean there aren't things to work on and I think for us to make yet another step forward we need to have a slightly more sensible and defensive plan B.

 

[TwoSaintsComeMarching]

TSH, whilst I agree with you that we are naive and far too open, and I too used to believe that it was because we play two wingers, I dont think that is the reason we lost yesterday. We were too open yes but it was mainly our inability to retain, and then win back the ball which made our loss inevitable. You simply cannot have a central midfield pairing without a ball winner in there. So whether you play two wingers or not you nee dto have a Huddlestone or Palacios type holding player in there. Jenas is not that kind of player.