What's new

Time to solve our Midfield problem

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
When looking at the people in attack and defence, we should be OK.

The strikers we have can score goals, they offer a few different options and obviously need time to settle, but I think they have the ability to do the job we require of them. In the defence individually we have quality, it’s a matter of playing together and growing as a unit (and keeping them fit)

However, I am getting alarmed at how easily teams are slicing though our midfield. And when the midfield includes Jenas, Zokora and Lennon, we should not be talking about giving them time to settle.


The wingers (Lennon especially last night) are marking their players too tightly, exposing the central two. When we are defending we are covering the whole width of the pitch, which is simply impossible to do.

The central two are getting stretched, making it difficult for them to cut out any of the balls, meaning that the opposition strikers are being picked out far too easily. They could stop this by pressing the opposing midfielders as soon as they get the ball so they cant make a pass, but they (and the rest of the players) are not pressing as a team, only in ones which any decent team can easily deal with. Two passes and they are past the player and we are on the back foot.

Jenas and Zokora have played together for how many games? Yet there is no partnership there at all and no communication.

Add in a disturbing lack of tracking back and marking of midfield runners, and its clear that the midfielders we have tried out in the centre of the park have not worked out.


To my mind there are two options:-

1. Quantity not Quality – we play a 4-5-1 as we did against Chelsea. While we still lack that leader, or a tough tackling defensive midfielder, we can plug some of the gaps through sheer numbers. The wide men can mark the wide men, and the spare man allows the other two central midfielders press forward knowing they are being covered. However, this is not advisable with the attacking team we have, especially when teams come to the Lane looking to get a point.

2. Give one of the younger players the responsibility of leading the midfield - While there are no exceptional candidates I think Jaime O’Hara has the most attributes that would suit this role. He has a very good engine, his positional sense defensively is sound, he never stops working, he is vocal and can pass the ball. In a midfield two he is also comfortable going forward once in a while. And, for what it is worth, he is a Spurs fan. Maybe it means he gives that extra percent, maybe it means nothing, but it seems to reassure the fans.

Someone has to take responsibility, someone needs to lead, and the more experienced players have not shown they can do this. The midfield is where the battles are won and lost, and far too often we are losing the battle, and the war.
 

mawspurs

Staff
Jun 29, 2003
35,069
17,740
Good observations Krafty.

With regard to your two points at the end there. 4-5-1 can work against some teams but it depends what you want to get out of the game. I think we are better with a partnership up front but Bent has proven at Charlton that he can play the loan striker. the problem is I don't think the rest of the team know how to play that formation as we never seem to play to his strengths. It can be limiting for attacking options and as we saw against Wisla can lead to us playing a long ball game which can be boring and good teams know how to nullify it.

I am not sure that O'Hara is ready to be a leader but I can see where you are coming from with it as he has the potential to grow into the role. As you say he is vocal enough and passionate about the club. But it may be asking too much of him when he is still working his way into the team. I think Ramos would expect a more experienced player to fill that role as well, so I can't see it happening.
 

jamesc0le

SISS:LOKO:plays/thinks/eats chicken like sissoko!
Jun 17, 2008
4,974
944
o'hara is obviously the tenacity we are lacking in midfield, i just hope ramos begins to see this soon. let jenas be the jack of all trades filling holes in the team at full back or wide positions or cm supersub. but ohara consistently starting in the middle of the park alonside zokora and/or modric (when fit) is the key to revitalising our season.

jenas could even do a job as second striker ( ala keano) with bent, but needs to refrain from starting in the middle..
 

ShelfSide18

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2006
8,386
3,122
Interesting points, I have to argue that I think Lennon has definitely been improving his all round game and has tracked back and fought hard this season so well done to him. I personally think letting Teemu and Steed go was a touch premature, they were good honest players who would have bedded in the newbies and given us a touch more continuity. Giovanni for example is infinitely more gifted than Steed but at the moment I'd give my right arm to slot him in on the left. I think those 2, or at least 1 of them had a year left in them at Spurs.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
It's pretty obvious there's a facking great big hole in central midfield..

His name is Didier Zokora.

The guy must be a fucking genius in training.. because how he gets to play every week is beyond me. It can't be based on his performances on the pitch, he provides NOTHING.
 

spurs_viola

Rui Costa,dreamspurs no10
Mar 10, 2005
2,454
0
Since we lost the midfield partnership of Edgar Davids and Carrick, there were 2 constant presences there: Jenas and Zokora. And we have never had a consistently reliable, good, effective partnership since then. Some games they do reasonably well, many games they don't perform, with regular lapses in concentration (Jenas), puzzling lack of positional sense and reliability (Zokora) and poor distribution through lack of vision (both).

The laughable goal we conceded 67 seconds after going into the lead for the first time this season was the perfect example of the disease with the defensive play of our core midfielders (Jenas and Zokora): one lost the ball under not too much pressure close to our penalty area (Zokora), the other switched off and was a leisurely jogging spectator behind the Wisla forward who just moved into open space within our pen area to score with ease - not so much as a hint of a tackle/pressure from Jenas who was no more than 2 yards away before the guy moved to receive an obvious pass.

That's the problem with Jenas: one game he provides lots of energetic running that makes other less mobile midfielders look less effective/trying, and we nod with humble understanding - "yes, the guy actually is very important to the team...hmmm".
But these rare occasions hide the more regular side of Jenas - frequent lapses of concentration, lack of vision, lack of initiative to take charge: familiar, but true observations on a footballer who showed much promise but who essentially was short of "footballing intelligence" and who ran out of time and opportunities to realize that promise.

O'Hara and Tainio would have been ideal pairing behind Modric, with Bale / Gio Dos Santos and Lennon / Bentley on the wings. With Tainio gone, it has to be either one of Zokora / Jenas and Huddlestone to partner O'Hara in rotation?
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
jj is our best mid, has been for our last two seasons - overall he's been here 3 seasons and we've had 3 good seasons in a row and he has played his part in that

obviously this season doesn't look like being a good season - but it's too early to be sure

I fully support playing o'hara and have been saying that since the start of the season - when I was one of the very few on here pushing for his inclusion

to me bentley jj zoko o'hara behind pav/campbell bent for sunday, with zoko playing deep

maybe corluka for zokora but that's a big risk and I can't see it being worth it

we shouldn't play bentley and lennon in a 4-4-2 it leaves us too exposed

and we shouldn't play 4-5-1 with bent cos it doesn't work

maybe it will work with pav or campbell I don't know - though I doubt it

4-4-2 for the time being anyway
 

bill

muamba
Jun 12, 2004
2,187
230
O'hara as DM anyone?

He reminds me of Stevie Perryman.

Opinions please.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Oh so it must be so easy. We have solved our problems on paper! Or is it that Ramos is so bad he cannot solve them himself (I need to be convinced by him), but we need to show him that this is where he is going wrong as he is blaming something else.


I was being sarcastic if no-one noticed
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
O'hara as DM anyone?

He reminds me of Stevie Perryman.

Opinions please.

there is something of SP about jamie

I'm not convinced about this DM biz - but I want him to play in the mid with two other 'proper mids'
 

camaj

Posting too much
Aug 10, 2004
8,195
883
I've been concerned about this for a while now. It's not just defending our midfield are weak at we haven't been too hot going forward either. There have been plenty of times when we've gone forward and the midfielder on the ball hasn't played the striker through when they've had the chance. Lennon seems to be the major culprit here.

We have to remember that Modric and Bentley will improve the situation when they settle. We need Bale on the left and Bentley on the right, with proper defensive full backs (Hutton/Gunter and Corluka)
 

StockSpur

Well-Known Member
May 20, 2004
4,945
1,537
Zokora is his own PR agent, youd have thought he had something to do with Bents goal or even scored it on Thursday the way he celebrated.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
I am a fan of the 451/4231/433 whatver you want to call it, and I don't feel it's limiting in terms of flexibility, as you can start 4231, then if you need to tighten up and protect you group the midfield closer together in a 451, but when you want tostretch and atack you push to more of a 433. Any two of Zokora/Jenas/O'Hara/Huddlestone sitting in the deeper pairing, Bentley/Lennon/Dos Santos for the wider two of the attacking three man midfield, Modric centrally, although with Modric out today either Bentley can move to the centre or use Jenas's late runs/Hudd's vision. Bent is more than capable of playing the lone striker role, as is Pavlyuchenko. Having the two shielding players gives the full backs the opportunity to overlap and provide crosses knowing there are two DM's to slot in.
I'm not convince we have the right balance to play two in CM, so we have to play more to get the right combinations.
Today I'd play Gomes; Gunter, Bale, Woodgate, King; Jenas, Zokora; Lennon, Bentley, Dos Santos; Bent. Subs - Sanchez, Corluka (RB/CB), Gilberto (LB/DM), Huddlestone (CB/DM/AM), O'Hara (DM/AM), Campbell (AM/CF), Pavlyuchenko (CF).
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
pav or campbell before gds for me - he has to be on the bench we can't afford him starting ATM
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
When I saw the selection for today, I was at least pleased that with the top two being big and strong, we at least had two wide midfielders in Bentley and Bale who can bang a decent cross in to make the most of the strikers, unlike Lennon (can run at a man and beat him, but can't reliably cross the ball) and Modric (not a wide midfielder) as we had last week, but it would now appear it didn't make that much difference. Why have we spent all summer playing one up top, stacking a 5 man midfield to overrun teams, utilising the running ability of Lennon and Dos Santos out wide rather than them crossing, only to change now the season is underway?
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I think during pre-season we played a formation out of necessity rather than choice. Ramos, and most managers to be fair, just use the games to make sure everyone reaches a peak fitness, some need more game time than others.

Problem with sunday was a lack of confidence, which in turn meant no one took a risk.

Full backs didnt overlap or push on to provide meaningful support.
Every throw in or pass went backwards, so all we did was play with the ball about 70 yards away from their goal.
No one from midfield broke past the forwards (a big problem that Jenas should be addressing, but he is the worst culprit of the fear factor)
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
Have thought more since the weekend, and I want to see this lineup tommorrow

GK - Gomes - No comment needed.

RB - Gunter - deserves a run in the side, was good v Chelsea and had a solid international period, can overlap well and is defensively good, gets better and better every time he plays, maturing well but will need games to continue.

LB - Bale - Potentially one of our best players, coming off the back of an excellent international break. Pace and skill, deadly set pieces, allied with Gunter could be our future attacking full backs for a long time. Class.

CB - Woodgate - Fingers crossed been much improved in terms of injury since signing, natural leader at the back.

CB - King/Corluka - King withoubt doubt if fit, if not then Corluka seems to be the answer, Dawson has gone backwards of late, too erratic, Corluka has all the tools to be a success, so get him and Woodgate together now to get some rhythm going.

DM - Zokora - Solid against Chelsea, not been played in the same role since. Can hold if told to do so, and also can slot into the back four as and when the full backs get forward. Not the best distribution, but if the others around him work off the ball it'll be easier for him to find and play a simple pass to either Jenas or one of the full backs scooting forwards allowing him to give the ball and drift back into defence.

DM - Jenas - Full of energy and seems to relish extra responsability, could be the link between DM and AM covering attacking full backs and also breaking when it's on with Zokora doing likewise, but need communication to be right so if one goes the other stays, more likely that it will predomanantly Jenas breaking late from deep. has the athleticism to patrol the midfield areas with some authority and presence.

ARM - Lennon - In a 4231 his suspect crossing is not so key, more important or him to get the ball at his feet and run, look for one two's, look to get onto knock downs from the target man geting in and around the channels beside the CB's. Run the ball at every opportunity, but be aware for the pass, run the ball to break into the box, or at least draw the foul for one of Bale or Bentley to smash the free kick home.

ACM - Bentley - Get the boy on the ball to make the most of his passing and shooting skills. In a 442 he'd be a banker on the right for his crossing, but in a 4231 I'd rather see him centrally using his skill and technique on the ball, almost with a license to shoot on sight. Modric being available would be my ACM, choice between the other three to fill the two wider roles.

ALM - Dos Santos - Use the boy for what he is, and attacking weapon, get him starting wide attacking left with the freedom to hit the byline or drive infield at goal, same as Lennon on the right, get him terrorising defenders keeping them pegged back. Dos Santos has the skills to drive to the box and either take he shot or play a team mate in. We fought hard to get him, and he left Barca so he could get chances to play more often, so lets play him.

CF - Bent - Bent was a hit for Charlton in a similar system, so lets play to his strengths, and given our array of midfield talent, our strengths. He'd get the nod over Pavlyuchenko at the minute for me, but once Roman settles and breaks his duck, things may change. Get these physical forwards running the channels looking for the ball, looking for work, holding the ball up and the defenders off allowing the likes of Lennon, Dos Santos and Bentley to find space for a shot, or get in behind.


This gives us good width both at full back and in attacking midfield, also defensive stability with tho holding midfielders covering both the centre of defence and also the attacking full backs. Three advanced midfielders give us creativity and also an attacking threat with the pace and trickery available. We can always tinker with the lineup in the pitch depending how things are going, 442 with Dos Santos or Lennon playing off the main striker, and to be honest if it's Dos Santos I'd move Lennon to the left as his crossing isn't that good to start with, Bentley's is. Can also go 4141 by pushing Jenas futher forward.

As for depth, Huddlestone could play deeper as a playmaker getting the play moving finding the attacking players with his passing range, or even play as the ACM given his deft footwork and vision, also emergency CB. O'Hara is a great option in the deep midfield role given his workrate, tenacity and ability to slot in at LB when Bale goes forward, with Jenas and Zokora comfortable on the right. Gilberto and Ekotto can slot in at LB, also Gilberto could slot in at DM on the left similar to O'Hara. Corluka and Zokora can slot in at RB or CB. Pavlyuchenko and Bent could share the CF role, Campbell more of an option off the bench, surely he could also operate as AMC. Lennon, Dos Santos and Bentley to play the wider roles. Rose as an outside bet.
 
Top