The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[Romulus]

I think Parrott is about a year off being seriously included

 

[Roy's Racers]

And it is especially hard on the skilful players as their personalities/mentalities/skillsets are the least able to make the necessary changes.

This is what I cannot get my head around. The idea or the implication that skilful players should change their personalities/mentalities/skillsets. This is what makes them standout, these are their positive abilities. I can well understand the need for young players to fully understand and commit to the professionalism of men's football. But asking them to change what makes them who they are, literally affects their ability and self-belief. Alas, this happens often with short-sighted 1st team manangers/ club's and leads to a lack of trust for that player to be valued for their true potential.

 

[blackburn]

As I mentioned a while back, I can only think of Crouchy as somebody released as a youth that went on to have a career with a top club. There is nothing wrong with our Academy, the reality is that lads coming through it are competing for a place in a Champions League last 16 side.

Professional sport at the top level is brutal, a tiny % makes it.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I find this thread interesting and puzzling in equal measures. The route to the first team squad is clear: do well in your age group and you will be promoted to train with the first team squad, if you prove you are up to that level you will get a chance.

Roles, Sterling, Skipp, KWP, TOB, Onomah et al will all have spent hours competing with tough, seasoned internationals on the training ground, the vast majority simply aren't up to it. You get the odd exception such as Dele who arrives and immediately proves he has what it takes. Its been the same for decades and will never change.

Totally agree, this has always been the way.
I played academy football a long time ago and the best prospects trained with the first team squad where the managers and the first team players would assess them.
I think the problem a lot of the fans have is not seeing the size of the gap between the two teams.

Firstly, there is the physical aspect. The size, strength, speed, and stamina of these guys is on another level. They are professional athletes first, footballers second.

Secondly, the mental aspect. Being the best in your year group to being the worst in the first team squad.
Having to work to improve parts of your game you don't want to. Skilful players are just that because that's what they believe football is all about. When they find out at mens level it isn't are they willing to change?
Small time mentality. These kids are local heroes which creates a Billy big balls mentality. They can stroll down a pub/club and everyone knows them. For many, that's enough. They can drop down to their local senior side or lower league side and still strut around without working hard.

I can't stress enough the gulf between youth and men's football and, as a result, being the best kid in your year group means nothing.
And it is especially hard on the skilful players as their personalities/mentalities/skillsets are the least able to make the necessary changes.

has anyone actually argued against this point?

 

[Westmorlandspur]

I will be watching him. Live in the flesh so to speak again this evening mate if he's selected.. There may be something about him but he'd get bullied Imho throwing him in not just in the deep end but in the middle of the sea?.
Who was the last 16year old to make his first team. Debut at spurs... The youngest I can recall was Phil Ifill and he was nearly 18

17 next month

 

[class of 62]

17 next month

Woopeedoo.. I'm on my way to Clinton cards.. I'll get one with one of those big badges confirming he's a big boy now?

 

[coys200]

I think Parrott is about a year off being seriously included

Yup pochettino has given a few a chance at 17. And I can’t remember anyone training consistently with seniors at 16. He’s actually 17 in 10 days. He may get a bench chance but probably be next season. I think there’s a serious possibility him or Sterling could take llorente spot which would suit the club perfectly. There’s also a definite possibility he could play for Ireland before he plays for us.

 

[coys200]

Is U23 game still on ?

 

[Blake Griffin]

cirkin's first appearance at this level.

 

[IGSpur]

Isn't that the case with most, if not, all "top" clubs?
Is there any ambitious top club in the world which would not buy, say, a Iniesta, Paolo Maldini, Buffon, Messi, Ronaldo, Zidane etc etc in their "peak years" if they could afford them and fill up their teams with all the world stars in the world, on behalf of their academy players, for the sake of winning trophies?

PS! I am as keen as anyone on here to see Spurs' academy make the grade to the 1st team.

My point is his hand has been forced, IF he ends up playing them. This isn't him thinking I trust and believe in this player so much I am choosing to play him ahead of a signing. I've never had a problem buying World Class players, the fact is we rarely do, and instead buy players that would be no better than our academy players were they handed opportunities. If the money was available this is what he would be doing, sadly we aren't in the market for World Class players. Though he does seem to have learned his lesson with regards to buying absolute average players as his hands are now tied.

 

[IGSpur]

cirkin's first appearance at this level.

Two good fullbacks. Good on him

 

[AdamYoung]

Is it 4231 do we think?

 

[IGSpur]

I find this thread interesting and puzzling in equal measures. The route to the first team squad is clear: do well in your age group and you will be promoted to train with the first team squad, if you prove you are up to that level you will get a chance.

Prove how? On pitch performances? Trippier has been our worse player for the last however many games and KWP has got 3 MOTMs? Prove attitude, Aurier, has been arrested..again in his career, KWP is exemplary in training. Or do we just keep shifting goalposts. I don't even need to debate Onomah and Edwards attitude when there's already evidence that proving yourself in performances and attitude is not consistent and is basically meaningless.

Also the route to the first team isn't clear, hence, we had Madueke, Griffiths and Veljkovic all refuse contracts and Bennetts ask to leave.

I am sure you would also be the type the say Sancho would have got a chance as 'we do things differently and Poch is different' even though he didn't get into City's first team, and the majority of fans supporting Pep, as Sancho hadn't proven anything.

 

[IGSpur]

Totally agree, this has always been the way.
I played academy football a long time ago and the best prospects trained with the first team squad where the managers and the first team players would assess them.
I think the problem a lot of the fans have is not seeing the size of the gap between the two teams.

Firstly, there is the physical aspect. The size, strength, speed, and stamina of these guys is on another level. They are professional athletes first, footballers second.

Secondly, the mental aspect. Being the best in your year group to being the worst in the first team squad.
Having to work to improve parts of your game you don't want to. Skilful players are just that because that's what they believe football is all about. When they find out at mens level it isn't are they willing to change?
Small time mentality. These kids are local heroes which creates a Billy big balls mentality. They can stroll down a pub/club and everyone knows them. For many, that's enough. They can drop down to their local senior side or lower league side and still strut around without working hard.

I can't stress enough the gulf between youth and men's football and, as a result, being the best kid in your year group means nothing.
And it is especially hard on the skilful players as their personalities/mentalities/skillsets are the least able to make the necessary changes.

I appreciate your background but there are academy players who will be playing with first teamers and seeing other academy players play with first teamers and realise the academy players are outperforming them and not being treated fairly. Hence why they are looking elsewhere. Sancho was also considered Billy Big Balls by City fans, as is Hudson-Odoi right now, and so was Edwards here. The difference is those two are looking to get out early. The lack of trust in academy players here has German clubs laughing at us, and literally trying to rinse us for our money.

Sane said in an article today he is how he is because he was trusted to dribble at Schalke. In England you've got to be a work horse first and then we will try to develop the natural talent, and then wonder why we have no comparable talent coming through

 

[coys200]

Cirkin looks like a less podgy Luke shaw.

 

[IGSpur]

Poch has said he prefers promoting youth to the first team and seeing if they are accepted by the senior team. If the youth players can adapt to the style and speed of play, if their teammates can rely on them to press and make a run when necessary,to make a pass or make themselves available to under pressure teammates then they will be accepted and they can play. The interview from Poch with Arlo White explains everything that we need to know. Ability and hard work will get them to training with the first team. But once there they have to earn the right to play by being part of the team. This is quite possibly why Edwards and Onomah haven't made that final step yet. They perhaps have that perception of low work rate and teammates feel they can't be relied on when backs are to the wall.

We hear how popular Sissoko is with the squad. I would hazard a guess that he's proved himself to have an iron mentality going through all the criticism and poor performances, the players know he will never give up. Our youth players need to show that same mentality

What does earn the right mean though? This is the same thing being said at all Premier League clubs, there is either a problem or there isn't. European clubs can see it and are taking advantage of England expecting their academy players to be finished articles before they get a chance.

These kids are standouts in the academy considered some of the best players in the world, and Premier League managers want to make sure they're guaranteed not to make any mistakes, whilst simultaneously not giving them the opportunity to prove that and playing players that are constantly making mistakes.

 

[class of 62]

No sterling here tonight, Parrott not a sub either

 

[class of 62]

Goal.. Jansen. Good move started by him

 

[Blake Griffin]

Is it 4231 do we think?

probably more of a 4141 with marsh sitting, i think they're trying to get tob playing further forward.

edit: 2-0 roles scores goals.

 

[class of 62]

Goal... Jack roles.. 20yd free kick