What's new

The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
I like a lot of what you post but do feel that you try too hard not to give Poch credit for certain things:
No fair minded person should disagree with the fact that Kane was pushed became the star he has under Poch. Similarly we know how Mason feels about Poch. Nabil came in under Timmy but was really given full responsibility under Poch (I still think sadly back to the positive Poch Nabil moment after Harry's NL winner from Nabil's cross.....if only he'd been better advised on the contract stuff). Walker and Rose became much better players. Winks was being talked about as starter for club and country before his injuries - again Poch's good work. And there are others.
Has he made mistakes - 100% - he is human. For instance Josh O losing time to Sissoko. Aurier being signed and taking time from KWP. Those are the biggest for me.
It is also interesting that he gets so much credit outside the club for young English talent we have bought and improved (Alli and Dier) but that is seem as distinct from the youth efforts.

poch has taken kane on a level(though we will never know how he'd have done under another manager) but it was sherwood who got the ball rolling and that's arguably the hardest part. if kane was coming through now alongside onomah, kwp etc his development would have been very different, likewise had those two been allowed out on loan from age 17/18 they might be in a far better position than they currently find themselves in. ultimately we'll never know and it's open to debate but i reckon players on a path similar to kane's will yield a greater return over time than the way we do things under pochettino.

Having just read that Chelsea have 31 (yes 31!) players on loan and I suspect earning in the region of £40m + (guess based on Danny Ings costing Southampton £2m for his loan from Liverpool). Also Man City have also 20+ players out on loan. I have looked at our squad and to be honest we would struggle to send out more than 6 (that is to decent clubs and standard). I was thinking of Janssen, Nkoudoh, Carter-Vickers, Amos, Georgiou and Ogilvie. The rest are either not ready, problematic (Edwards) or not good enough. Also Chelsea will still do well at U23 level (they reached the Check-a-trade final last year) and continue to dominate Youth football in this country. Spurs are just not competing in this very lucrative loan system market but more importantly our strength in depth is really questionable.

what level do you define as decent? league 1 or even league 2 loans can still be greatly beneficial, just look at amos who via four months at a league 2 club has gone from drifting in the u23s to being on the first team fringes. i think we have a few outside of those names you listed who could do well at that level, that's how the previous generation(kane, pritchard, carroll, townsend, caulker etc) got started.
 

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
Accepted but why could not Spurs buy say 10 players (youngsters of potential) for say £40m - well within their range - this summer and then commence doing what Chelsea & City do. This tactic is employed by an increasing number of clubs like Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid and others. Whats not to like since out of the 10 (depending on the quality of our scouts) just maybe 1 or 2 could be an Eric Dier or a Dele Alli (combined cost £8m approx).
because we don't have 40 million based on the evidence.
if we had bought Grealish the goal was to pay for him by off loading sissoko, Jannsen, gkn, fernando, maybe edwards, etc.
 

DCSPUR

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2005
3,918
5,415
poch has taken kane on a level(though we will never know how he'd have done under another manager) but it was sherwood who got the ball rolling and that's arguably the hardest part. if kane was coming through now alongside onomah, kwp etc his development would have been very different, likewise had those two been allowed out on loan from age 17/18 they might be in a far better position than they currently find themselves in. ultimately we'll never know and it's open to debate but i reckon players on a path similar to kane's will yield a greater return over time than the way we do things under pochettino.



what level do you define as decent? league 1 or even league 2 loans can still be greatly beneficial, just look at amos who via four months at a league 2 club has gone from drifting in the u23s to being on the first team fringes. i think we have a few outside of those names you listed who could do well at that level, that's how the previous generation(kane, pritchard, carroll, townsend, caulker etc) got started.

Sherwood 100% gets credit....and a teeny bit to AVB for letting Kane hang around the first team after Harry took a stand but:

"Obviously, when Mauricio Pochettino came in the following season, everything changed. Not just for me, but for the club. No one has had a bigger impact on my career than Mauricio, and that’s because he didn’t just bring a fantastic managerial philosophy to the club, he also brought us all very close together. He had an amazing career in his own right, but he almost never talks about it. As a manager, it’s never about him — it’s always about helping the players, whether it’s the best player or a player who is struggling. Of course, if you don’t want to work hard and you’re lazy … then he’s ruthless. That’s it — you won’t be playing and the door won’t be open to talk to him, either. But if you give him respect, and you work hard for him? He’ll give you all the time in the world."
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Every player that comes through, everywhere, has their fortune to get there. Very rarely is it not due to an injury crisis, or complete loss of form from the established players. To use this as a stick to beat Poch is ridiculous, and makes it difficult to take the rest of the post as seriously as we should. It makes it seem like it's agenda driven, though I don't believe it is.

Why have we always struggled to get our young players decent PL/Champ loans?

Yes but people use Kane as an example of how well he has done when he literally came through and proved himself before Poch arrived, and got put straight at the back of the queue despite being the hardest worker. That goes against what he is known for. That should never have come down to fortune.

I think the lack of loans is poor planning and lack of contacts. We have some quality players I'm our academy who people are looking down on now as they are stagnating due to poor development. Our 2nd years should be playing u23 football then getting loans next year. Heck our best could be getting them in their 2nd year, but they sit and do nothing for a year, then the following season e eryone claims they are no longer good players as we have packed the u23s with players that never make it.

Now without appearing to attack Poch and appearing to have an agenda. There was a time we almost had as many players on loan as Chelsea pre Poch. The standard of players we are producing are better but for whatever reason we aren't getting loans. McDermott is a constant so don't know why he's change his views so then you turn to the man who has joined that apparently doesn't like loans.

Players like Sam Cox and Oscar Jansson were getting loans when they were 18/19 but as our players now don't people assume they are worse. People criticise Chelsea's model but it works a lot better than ours
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I like a lot of what you post but do feel that you try too hard not to give Poch credit for certain things:
No fair minded person should disagree with the fact that Kane was pushed became the star he has under Poch. Similarly we know how Mason feels about Poch. Nabil came in under Timmy but was really given full responsibility under Poch (I still think sadly back to the positive Poch Nabil moment after Harry's NL winner from Nabil's cross.....if only he'd been better advised on the contract stuff). Walker and Rose became much better players. Winks was being talked about as starter for club and country before his injuries - again Poch's good work. And there are others.
Has he made mistakes - 100% - he is human. For instance Josh O losing time to Sissoko. Aurier being signed and taking time from KWP. Those are the biggest for me.
It is also interesting that he gets so much credit outside the club for young English talent we have bought and improved (Alli and Dier) but that is seem as distinct from the youth efforts.

You can search this forum day til night and won't find anything other than praise for Poch's ability to develop players. So he gets plenty of credit in the areas your talking about
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
We have a youth player called Binks?

Would be awesome if we could get him and Winks both established in senior side.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Onomah has made 40 1st team appearances for us. KWP has already shown he is more than capable. Ccv played a whole championship season and is a full international. So yeah I could say with 100% confidence if any of those were needed on Saturday they could come in and not look out of place.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Onomah has made 40 1st team appearances for us. KWP has already shown he is more than capable. Ccv played a whole championship season and is a full international. So yeah I could say with 100% confidence if any of those were needed on Saturday they could come in and not look out of place.

If we HAVE to start with Sissoko again, if we get to a point where we were in control and had a good lead would be nice to sub on Onomah and give him a shit (later edit: or a shot even).

Although not entirely sure if he’s available at moment as was injured.
 
Last edited:

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,685
4,500
Onomah has made 40 1st team appearances for us. KWP has already shown he is more than capable. Ccv played a whole championship season and is a full international. So yeah I could say with 100% confidence if any of those were needed on Saturday they could come in and not look out of place.
sorry not CCV He could not cope with Mitrovic. It’s an important position I just don’t think he’s up to it.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Madueke update. Featured in his first game for PSV came on as sub got a couple of good goals and a really good assist.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,562
If we HAVE to start with Sissoko again, if we get to a point where we were in control and had a good lead would be nice to sub on Onomah and give him a shit.
A warm welcome indeed...
 

Chris Flynn

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2012
1,459
3,988
If we HAVE to start with Sissoko again, if we get to a point where we were in control and had a good lead would be nice to sub on Onomah and give him a shit.

Although not entirely sure if he’s available at moment as was injured.
how have things been going since Ello Ello was cancelled by the way? keep meaning to ask
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
Dan Kilpatrick saying Poch said Onomah could go out on loan for first team experience.
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,124
47,907
Dan Kilpatrick saying Poch said Onomah could go out on loan for first team experience.
I'd rather he got first team experience in our side.

Does anyone really think he'd be somehow worse than Sissoko? Aside from Poch, obviously.
 
Top