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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Jimmypearce7

Well-Known Member
Feb 23, 2005
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As someone mentioned on here Reo Griffiths agent is Sky Andrew. Not someone you hire unless you want to make problems and leave in our experience.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Could probably include Kirby in that list too?
I was thinking of Kirby too.

You could argue that Milos was the original pioneer realising that there were chances in the Bundesliga. He came back from winning the u20 World Cup and saw no sign of chances here and left. Now he appears to be going to the actual World Cup this year. Not the first player to come back from winning the most prestigious youth tournament, returning with hope, confidence and enthusisam to have ti sapped out of them

I did mention the concerns amongst the academy a few months back. Poch is very aware, but told it is a balancing act. Told only the very elite stand a chance.
I guess this comes down to the age old question what is elite? And if a player is 'elite' will the actually get a chance or will we be relying on ridiculous amount of fortune to discover these players. When arguably the best striker to play in the PL after Henry and Shearer, only come through, due to the absolute bombing of signings coinciding with us playing in a competition that allowed us to try out backup players, I don't know why anyone has any faith that the elite will be given a chance. If we were in the CL Kane would not have been playing for us, and would not have been considered elite, but his abiltiy would have been the same.

KWP has won 2 MOTMs in his only 2 Premier League matches, both games he only started in because there were no other options available short of playing guys out of position. That only happened twice in the whole season and he got 2 starts. Were either of those RBs fit, we may not have seen him at all. When someone who has the ability to get MOTMs in his only games, why does anyone have any faith that the 'elite' will get a chance?

Winks is another who benefited off injuries showing he is good enough. Onomah is one of the best players I have seen at academy level, however he won't get a chance unless 4/5 players ahead of him get injured. If that happened, and he got his chance and played well, the line will be, we will always bring through the elite. It's ridiculous.

Everyone knows that not all players make it. But while we are making a claim that only the best of the best will get a chance, Fergie the greatest manager of the PL era, also brought through Welbeck, Cleverly, Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher, P Neville, and Butt. None of these players are elite or were elite at youth level, and Fergie didn't think that players needed to be elite, to be thought as useful contributors to a PL dominating team with high expectations, so why does Poch have this misguided belief.

The only thing we can say is it hasn’t come back to bite us yet. How long that remains the case is another matter. Did say a while ago with the general increase in squad quality some harsh decisions were likely at youth level. Just wonder how many of those leaving the club are ok with. Be amazed if Edwards survives this cull.

I don't get this bite in the arse comment. Why does a player have to end up being a Messi, Pogba or Ronaldo to be considered as biting us on the arse. Surely any academy player that could be good enough to have played top level football that we let go for minimal money whilst spending large amounts of money for players that end up being on a similar or lesser level to the one released is biting us on the ass. I know it's been mentioned before, but Veljkovic is a player about to go to a World Cup and he's the same age year group as Winks. He won the u19 Euros iirc and u20 World Cup and was in the TOTT. When it was suggested 3 years ago I think, that he could be our backup DM, instead of James McCarthy, who people wanted to spend 25m on at the time, people laughed. I can't understand how people can be willing to spend so much money on average players and not try our own out. McCarthy, was a 7 then and he's a 6 now. I saw Milos mentioned in an article by a blogger as someone who Liverpool could try and buy next year. Surely losing out on millions whether it wasting it on spending or wasting it by not maximising their value from selling, we've been bitten on the arse.
 

ljinko888

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2016
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I did mention the concerns amongst the academy a few months back. Poch is very aware, but told it is a balancing act. Told only the very elite stand a chance.

Harry Kane would not have come through with this policy. He was not a 'very elite' youth player, nor was he ripping it up on loan.

Often you just need to dangle the carrot. How do youngsters get motivated when there is no pathway? After the fact people can brush them off as bad eggs, but most of them would listen and do anything to get a proper chance. We are failing them.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
If Sancho came through our academy do people really believe that he would have been brought through?

Don't go off what you have seen now, before we were linked and he was just another academy player, if everyone on here was going on about him, you would just get the comments. If he was that good why hasn't he been played yet. He is an elite youth player and he would be in our u23s or training with the first team
 

SpursD22

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2017
4,682
8,929
Oh dear. @WindyCOYS says he thinks this is legit.

https://www.footballinsider247.com/exclusive/

Tottenham starlet Keanan Bennetts is poised to leave the club to join German side Borussia Monchengladbach, Football Insider sources understand.

I think he should go. He will get some minutes in a top 5 league and a good team. With us being very interested in Sessegnon I can’t see us giving Bennetts the chance
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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the only one there who i think would be making a bad decision to leave is hinds. he's developing nicely but he's a long way from playing first team football, not just here but for any club of a decent level. he's effectively where kwp was four years ago, talented, but titchy. it would be a really risky decision for him to leave, he should be staying where he is for at least the next year. madueke has effectively swapped like-for-like but with a bigger contract at the end of it. griffiths i think is probably being a bit hasty but as @IGSpur said, you can understand him chancing his arm. bennetts has the physique and the athleticism as well as the ability to be playing senior football so why wouldn't he jump at the chance gladbach are supposedly offering him, rather than spending the next few years either locked in the training ground or bouncing between loans and u23s.

Re: Hinds, I agree and disagree. I reckon in a year or 2 in the right league he could be playing first team football, the same way I believe KWP could have featured earlier.

Hinds could do something like Collinge, Egbo, Willock, McGuane and even Oxford have done. Go abroad, play for about a year in their 2nd team or whatever they have in the country he could potentially move to. After a year there, his talent would stand out enough, and he would have adapted enough to start being considered for a clubs first team. He isn't as dominating as say KWP was at RB, but he plays the game at such ease and so calmly, that he would catch us. He's like a slightly more mobile Ogilvie.

If I was a Sporting Director at a European club I'd be all over the English market, there's so much untapped talent - a money-ball dream because all they need is opportunity and suddenly they're worth a fortune!

I wrote this rant after Monchengladback's Sporting Director gave his opinion of English football. They're not stupid, and they will take advantage of us. They are poaching these kids for cheap not because they want to help us, but because they believe they are quality talent, better than what they have. They also know that if they fulfill their prmise they cna then rob the rich English clubs blind. While it helps England it also means we end up inesting in the clubs abroad essentially.

I posted a while ago, when reading the Bremen forum on Veljkovic while some called him a genius and wanted him to stay, they were also plotting and waiting for the time when he reaches the level when an PL club wants to come for him. He is homegrown so adds immediate value, and I'm not even talking the top 6. Every club has money, and anything over 10m which is very possible they have made a 9m profit on him, while he has also stabilised their defence. It's such a low risk high reward gamble for them, while we just make excuses as to why we should avoid playing them
 

thefierycamel

Well-Known Member
Dec 31, 2014
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5,128
We've already messed around 2 of our best prospects ever in Onomah and Edwards....why would anyone else get a proper chance? Tanganga needs to go on loan or be integrated. We can't lose a player like him.
The other issue is we buy absolute dross for decent amounts of money rather than giving those spots to youth. The starting 11 can be bought but the bench should have academy players
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Telling words from the new under-18 coach Scott Parker.

My problem is clubs bringing in players who block pathways but then don’t play.

‘The superstars are fine because we all learn from them. The problem is average players who then block that position from a young player.

Aurier and Sissoko come to mind.
Whether they play or not they are a block
on the youngsters progress at the club.

Particularly KWP and his lack of opportunities at the club this year.
Neither played except fpr two Prem. appearances.or loaned for a year.
There is a limit to how much you can absorb
through your bottom, sitting on a bench.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
We've already messed around 2 of our best prospects ever in Onomah and Edwards....why would anyone else get a proper chance? Tanganga needs to go on loan or be integrated. We can't lose a player like him.
Very true. I don't understand why people would expect these guys to hang around. Onomah and Edwards are easily 2 of the best players I've ever seen in the academy, and what I would consider elite talent. When they were 17/18/19 they stayed, believing the hype of the manager and that under his tutelage they would be depending on how you look at it a)good enough to play PL football or b) given a chance if they were good enough. Whether you believe they are good enough or not now, why would an academy player who is 17/18 now, trust staying at this club, when they look at those two. They know they will either be seen as not good enough no matter how good they are, or believe the club will not continue to develop them. If these guys aren't going to make it, it will take a miracle for them to make it. Good faith only stretches so far.

Re: Tanganga and the other CBs, we have an absolute plethora of CBs coming through at the moment, I'd hope at least one of those make it. If news is correct that Brown may be released that may be a blessing in disguise for him, as he could find himself a decent club and do well, rather than stay and stagnate. Between Tanganga, Lyons-Foster and Eyoma and even CCV there are plenty of talented players for the maanger to take his pick and bring one through.

Speaking of CCV, I was at the 120 club as a gift on Sunday in Wembley (my time to sit among the rich and attempt to not look out of place) and I was sitting next to 2 Ipswich fans. They were waxing lyrical about him, really wishing that we don't rate him so they can buy him off us. Couldn't speak highly enough. I think he's had a good season overall across the two clubs in the Championship, hope he can get a PL loan, or even another Champ loan.

Also while I was there, KWP came up as he was MOTM, and I got a pic with him and of course told him how long I've rated him for. Which no doubt probably came out as something like 'I've been watching you since you were young':banghead:. Wished him the best of luck and he was very polite. Was chuffed for him.

The other issue is we buy absolute dross for decent amounts of money rather than giving those spots to youth. The starting 11 can be bought but the bench should have academy players
If the best of our academy players were given chances they could range between either being of Sissoko's level and be able to perform a very basic squad role or be one of the best players in our starting eleven. As you say they would save money on fees and wages, and make money when we sell them, meaning we can invest more money on the best of the best. We paid 25m for Aurier, and will have to invest at least a season's worth of patience for him to maybe come good, but could only invest 2 PL games in KWP who in his two proved himself. And yet, people are still questioning whether or not we can go into next season with KWP as one of the 2 RBs but would be happy going in with Aurier as one of the 2 RBs.

We could give them a chance and end up with a Lingard which is more than good enough for a squad place. Even the players who aren't elite, will be good enough to be squad players at 20/21. Going back to United, 20 year old Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher and Cleverly weren't as good as 25 year old Brown, O'Shea, Fletcher and Cleverly, and they won't be as good as when they are 30 either. Yet these players were still integrated into a title winning squad, but we are apparently know more than Fergie and subscribe to the idea that an academy player can only be used or given a chance if they somehow prove themselves as better than seasoned internationals despite not having any experience. Ludicrous.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Telling words from the new under-18 coach Scott Parker.

My problem is clubs bringing in players who block pathways but then don’t play.

‘The superstars are fine because we all learn from them. The problem is average players who then block that position from a young player.

Aurier and Sissoko come to mind.
Whether they play or not they are a block
on the youngsters progress at the club.

Particularly KWP and his lack of opportunities at the club this year.
Neither played except fpr two Prem. appearances.or loaned for a year.
There is a limit to how much you can absorb
through your bottom, sitting on a bench.

Everyone in this thread agrees. No one disagrees with buying quality, in fact the whole point of using the academy allows us to by mor.

However, I'm sure some will disagree with Parker and say either:
Parker isn't managing the first team what does he know
The Premier League isn't a charity, you don't just hand out games
If the players are that good they will thrive on the competition and prove themselves better than those players in training
 

Clark28

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2016
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13,040
Could the FA make a new rule where the bench is 10 players but 3 of em have to be HG academy players, or is that something FIFA would have to allow?

Times when we're comfortably winning, we have no kids on our bench to give minutes to. Instead of putting Sissoko on when we're 3 goals up, we could chuck a kid out there. Even being in the match day environment would be good for them.

Only downside is that it might take them away from playing with the U23's team.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
Could the FA make a new rule where the bench is 10 players but 3 of em have to be HG academy players, or is that something FIFA would have to allow?

Times when we're comfortably winning, we have no kids on our bench to give minutes to. Instead of putting Sissoko on when we're 3 goals up, we could chuck a kid out there. Even being in the match day environment would be good for them.

Only downside is that it might take them away from playing with the U23's team.
actually i don't think it helps. just putting them on bench won't boost their development. say we have onomah, edwards and kwp on bench in addition, can they learn anything if we bring on sissoko instead of one of them when we are 3-0 up? would they be satisfied with sitting on bench?
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
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7,424
actually i don't think it helps. just putting them on bench won't boost their development. say we have onomah, edwards and kwp on bench in addition, can they learn anything if we bring on sissoko instead of one of them when we are 3-0 up? would they be satisfied with sitting on bench?
Tbf if they aren’t on the bench at all then there’s a zero chance of coming on so just being there is a step in the right direction.

Anything that can get these kids in the match day squad and a chance of playing is a good idea to me.
 

Clark28

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2016
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13,040
actually i don't think it helps. just putting them on bench won't boost their development. say we have onomah, edwards and kwp on bench in addition, can they learn anything if we bring on sissoko instead of one of them when we are 3-0 up? would they be satisfied with sitting on bench?
100% they'd rather be on the bench than not in the matchday squad at all. If they are on the bench, they at least have a sniff of getting some minutes, which is more than what they are getting atm.

If we're comfortably winning a game, my hope would be that Poch uses one of the subs to get a kid on, instead of giving a senior player those 10-15 minutes.
 

Sevens

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Apr 23, 2014
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We've already messed around 2 of our best prospects ever in Onomah and Edwards....why would anyone else get a proper chance? Tanganga needs to go on loan or be integrated. We can't lose a player like him.
The other issue is we buy absolute dross for decent amounts of money rather than giving those spots to youth. The starting 11 can be bought but the bench should have academy players

I've never seen anything to suggest that Onomah is one of our best prospects ever. He may go on to have a Jake Livermore style career but even that may be beyond him.

I can't believe people are actually trying to claim that Poch is holding back our youth. Poch has proven time and time again that he has no problem giving youth a chance. The problem our youth players have no is that we're a very good team. Take Onomah again for example. He isn't as good as Dier, Dembele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Winks for central midfield. And he isn't as good as Eriksen, Alli, Son, Lamela, Moura as one of the players behind Kane. So how on earth is he being messed around? Are you seriously suggesting we should play inferior youth players just to give them a chance? What happens when we then throw away points because of that and Poch gets the boot for not qualifying for the CL?
 
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