The SPINE

[lukespurs7]

The spine of a team is very important!

Looking back over the past few seasons, we have played some lovely football but arguably haven't been as effective results wise as the season under Jol when we nearly finished 4th. I think one big problem has been the breaking up of 'The SPINE' of our side.

Think back to when we were very close to coming 4th, aswell as have a very consistent 1st 11 and the experience of Davids, we must remember we didn't even have Berbatov BUT we did have a much stronger Spine to the side.

I think in alot of sides this is paramount.

The GK,CB and CM hold the team together, they are like the glue.

That season we had:
----------------------ROBINSON-------------------------
--Stalteri------- DAWSON ---------KING --------Lee.Y.P--
--Lennon -------JENAS -----------CARRICK -----Davids--
-----------------Mido------------- Keane----------------
Arguably a worse team than we have now espc at RB,LB,LM,RM,ST
A much better version of Paul Robinson as in his 1st season he was class.
A solid consistently fit Leadly King
A better CM combo with Carrick and Jenas as Carrick is twice the player Zoko is and compliments Jenas better. That was our spine. It was all english and complimented each other well. Now Carrick has gone, Robbo has lost form and King is more injury prone than ever we must work to re-build that.

Arguably the most succesful team over the past 5-10 seasons is AC milan. Yes they have had some world class players but they've always had a strong spine to their side. They have consistently had(respectively):
Dida,Nesta,Maldini,Pirlo,Gattuso

It is similar with other successful sides, Chelsea under Mouriniho had:Cech,Terry,Carvaliho,Lampard,Essien-thats not so common now under Grant.

Arsenal had: Seaman,Toure,Campbell,Gilberto,Vieria

I could go on, basically we seem to lack that. I feel it is vital that we sign players over summer to re-build a new spine one which will last for a long time.

views?

 

[DC_Boy]

yep Luke - we need a new GK new CB and another mid

however let's remember the current team did what that team couldn't do - won something - that team had a lot of good points - but as the fiascoes at Grimsby and Leicester showed we were a long way away from trophies - and of course with no European football we actually only played 40 games that season - which was some kind of prem record I think (and not an enviable one)

had that squad had to battle its way through the amount of games we've done in the past two years I doubt very much it had sufficient depth to have got as close to 4th as it did

one thing I will say is note that JJ has played for us 3 seasons - and those have been three seasons of realtive and actual success - perhaps the best run of seasons since since the early 90s?

yet still so many people want him shifted out - it makes me mad

 

[DJS]

Hopefully next season we'll be able to get more of a solid spine back.

If we purchase an imposing keeper like Gomes, he'll have Woody in front of him, Jenas and hopefully a new tougher and more skillful holding midfielder and Keano and Berbs pray up front! :up:

Oh and to add, although it's not part of the spine but Hutton adds a nice bit of toughness at right back which we've not had for a while!

 

[chinaman]

Right now we've a broken back.

 

[SpurSince57]

No, it didn't have sufficient depth. We saw that when form slumped when Mido went off to the ACN and Davids and Tainio were both injured almost simultaneously—and Davids and Mido were never quite the same players afterwards. As you say, DC, going out of both cups was probably a blessing in disguise.

But then the squad hasn't had sufficient strength in depth since. It's no coincidence that we were able to put together our great run at the end of last season when Jol at last had King, Keane, Berbatov, Jenas and Lennon all available for the first time. Wherever the blame lies, we didn't address that lesson last summer.

I said in another thread, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of quality, more of consistency. I think that in the first five games of this season we had more players in our back four than in the whole of 2005-2006. That's ridiculous. I wonder how many other teams would have coped any better with that kind of disruption.

 

[lukespurs7]

yep Luke - we need a new GK new CB and another mid

however let's remember the current team did what that team couldn't do - won something - that team had a lot of good points - but as the fiascoes at Grimsby and Leicester showed we were a long way away from trophies - and of course with no European football we actually only played 40 games that season - which was some kind of prem record I think (and not an enviable one)

had that squad had to battle its way through the amount of games we've done in the past two years I doubt very much it had sufficient depth to have got as close to 4th as it did

one thing I will say is note that JJ has played for us 3 seasons - and those have been three seasons of realtive and actual success - perhaps the best run of seasons since since the early 90s?

yet still so many people want him shifted out - it makes me mad

Good point mate about the amount of games, you are correct that may have made it easier and in terms of winning trophies going on our early exits in the cups you are also correct we may have been some way off winning a trophy, but if we still had that spine now, we may have not only won a trophy but also done very well in the league.

 

[lukespurs7]

No, it didn't have sufficient depth. We saw that when form slumped when Mido went off to the ACN and Davids and Tainio were both injured almost simultaneously—and Davids and Mido were never quite the same players afterwards. As you say, DC, going out of both cups was probably a blessing in disguise.

But then the squad hasn't had sufficient strength in depth since. It's no coincidence that we were able to put together our great run at the end of last season when Jol at last had King, Keane, Berbatov, Jenas and Lennon all available for the first time. Wherever the blame lies, we didn't address that lesson last summer.

I said in another thread, I don't think it's necessarily a matter of quality, more of consistency. I think that in the first five games of this season we had more players in our back four than in the whole of 2005-2006. That's ridiculous. I wonder how many other teams would have coped any better with that kind of disruption.

Very true mate, i mean everton are a testoment to that in that their line-up, style of play etc is very consistent even though in terms of player quality they don't nesseccarily have that great a 1st 11 and especially not that strong strength in depth. This season however with the addition of Yak and Lescott coming of age, they do look a more decent outfit, but a big part of their fairly good league positionings is down to consistency.

 

[DC_Boy]

fair points luke & 57 - for sure as I think we all agree that spine of the team with Carrick and a fit and performing King & Robbo in was better

keep that team and add in Berbs you've got one hell of a team add in hutton Bale and Woodgate and we're talking realistic top 4 and trophy challengers- but alas life moves on etc

 

[striebs]

----------------------ROBINSON-------------------------
--Stalteri------- DAWSON ---------KING --------Lee.Y.P--
--Lennon -------JENAS -----------CARRICK -----Davids--
-----------------Mido------------- Keane----------------

That group of players did play well as a team and effectively .

A couple of the replacements damaged team spirit imho :-
- Berbatov for Mido ; quality but Berbs is not as much a team player

- Chimbonda for Stalteri ; depending on which side of bed Chimbo gets out of can be an improvement or worse that Stalteri . Not as much of a team player though .


I think we failed to maintain the team spirit which players like Carrick , Mendes , Lee , Davids embodied .

The players which Comolli brought in in the main were not integrated very well . I'm not blaming him for this .

So for me , the tension and division behind the scenes had a negative effect on the performances on the pitch starting the season after LasagnaGate.

 

[AngerManagement]

That group of players did play well as a team and effectively .

A couple of the replacements damaged team spirit imho :-
- Berbatov for Mido ; quality but Berbs is not as much a team player

- Chimbonda for Stalteri ; depending on which side of bed Chimbo gets out of can be an improvement or worse that Stalteri . Not as much of a team player though .


I think we failed to maintain the team spirit which players like Carrick , Mendes , Lee , Davids embodied .

The players which Comolli brought in in the main were not integrated very well . I'm not blaming him for this .

So for me , the tension and division behind the scenes had a negative effect on the performances on the pitch starting the season after LasagnaGate.

The problem with the team post Lasagna gate was mostly the loss of Carrick in my opinion.

Many of us (myself included) didn't realise just how important he was to that team.

At the time the team was built around him. He covered the defence which helped the back four and Robinson emmensley (it is no coincodence he/they have looked poor since)

His vision and range of passing also was instrumental in the attacking nature of our team, his passing and timing of pass helped the likes of Lennon, KEane and Mido play to their highest level.

Furthermore he did (as SS57 stated) the piano carrying for Jenas who in turn was able to play at his highest level more consistantly.

Taking all that into account it is clear to see he had a huge impact on that team and he has not been replaced as such we are missing many of these aspects.

Add to that the loss of Davids, who added experience and a combativie spirit to the team (im sure the rest of the team got a boost and extra belief from playing with him)

However we did improve in other areas, Berbatov for one. He came into the side and replaced Carrick in the creative sense as well as increasing ability of our strikers (better then Mido for sure), although it thus had to start from further up the field as no one else was doing what Carrick could offensively on a consistant basis.

I would say Malbranque's introduction went some way to replacing Davids (especially as he had aged and faded) So if anything we became a better team going forward (we scored bagfulls of goals since Carrick has left)

Although our away form as suffered, as has our general consistancy.

Much of this is caused by the lack of stability in the spine as the thread states because Carrick was an intergal member of this.

His sweeping up infront of the defence and heading (defence postioning and height) from set pieces have left us exposed at the defence and as such (along with Kings injuires) have made us a weaker unit at the back.

Imagion if Carrick had stayed and Berbatov been signed, things could well have been vastly improved over the last 2 seasons.

IF Berbatov leaves in the summer this will be an equally (if not more) damaging loss then Carrick. The way the team currently operates would need to be changed.

I think we could well be looking at a big shift in the teams dynamic over the summer. Ramos will have his ideas for the way forward for our team. Hopefully he will be able to find a way to maintain our attacking prowess and stiffen up the defence.

We already have Woodgate, are likely to get a new keeper and CB to cover King so we should see improvements there.

IF Berbatov goes then I would expect to see the creative focus of the team revert to the midfield and with Huddlestone the only player who seems to have the required ability but lacking the consistancy (and other aspects of the game) we will probaly bring someone in to provide this (as well as a new piano carrier)

I would hate to lose Berbatov, but if we have a midfield capable of creating lots of chances all we need our forward line to do is put the ball in the net (alot eaiser to find a goal scorer then a striker who can do the things Berbs can *Bent even*)

 

[Coyboy]

one thing I will say is note that JJ has played for us 3 seasons - and those have been three seasons of realtive and actual success - perhaps the best run of seasons since since the early 90s?

yet still so many people want him shifted out - it makes me mad

Don't worry too much DC, the Jenas bashers are decreasing by the second and those that once said he was 'shit' are now changing their arguement to he's 'inconsistent'.

 

[van_Pommel]

JJ's not a bad player at all. The only part of his game which I would doubt is the mental side, particularly his determination and intellegence. He's gives up too easily and is not creative enough to be one half of a 2 man centre midfield. He looked good alongside Carrick because Carrick was both our holding midfielder AND creative outlet. Jenas can do neither of these things at a high enough level. If we are going to play a 442 system then we need one of each, like our rivals do:

Holding/Creative
Mascherano/Alonso
Flamini/Fabregas
Carrick/Scholes

Tactics vary between teams and matches but the principles remain the same. JJ would excell in a 3 man midfield, and he looks good sometimes in our 442 as Berba does the majority of our creative work. He is neither a holding or a creative midfielder and for this reason I dont think he should be first choice next season.

I think Huddlestone has the potential to be our Alonso in 2 or 3 seasons, but we desperately need a Mascherano.

 

[DC_Boy]

Don't worry too much DC, the Jenas bashers are decreasing by the second and those that once said he was 'shit' are now changing their arguement to he's 'inconsistent'.

CB - yep I've noticed that new codeword too

I'll tell what also makes me laugh how happy the Toon fans were to offload him - and guess what we've outperformed them for each of the three seasons he's been with us - laughs last and longest or what

 

[ultimateloner]

Gattuso is the man we need.

 

[lukespurs7]

Intresting to read what robbie keane has been saying about how next season we'll see the real tottenham with a pre-season which sounds like it will be exciting under ramos who will bring in hopefully a fair few new faces to make up for berbatov probably leaving and then mabye we'll have a massively improved team and squad which may be better even if we do get rid of berbatov the team and squad may be more suited to the way ramos wants the team to play and he may hoepfully somehow create a new spine to the team.

 

[yiddotilidie]

I think the introduction of Zokora has acted as our Spines Pins & Needles!!!!

 

[SpurSince57]

Well, at least he can tackle—which is, unfortunately, a lot more than can be said of Jenas.

 

[Yid-ol]

Well, at least he can tackle—which is, unfortunately, a lot more than can be said of Jenas.

he can, just a shame that he normaly fouls people in dangerous areas giving away freekicks, which we are not great at defending

 

[milkman]

the supporters are a large component that make up the spine of the team