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The misconception of youth

alamo

Don't worry be happy
Jun 10, 2004
5,047
7,226
Cheerio then Adel. I for one will miss your mindless step-overs and your Merson-like mazy dribbly randomness. And goodbye Gio. You arrived with so much promise on the back of your Barcelona hat-trick and your fancy sounding name.

Ok, those initial words are somewhat presumptuous and intentionally harsh, but the question stll stands - where did it all go wrong?

Over the last few seasons we have invested heavily in youth. Kaboul, Reid, KPB, Gio, Taarabt, Gunter, to name but a few. And whilst a seemingly sound business tactic the actual reward on the pitch has been far from a resounding success. And why is that? Why did all that glowing potential seemingly evaporate into nothing? Where is our team of world-beaters that have matured and developed together into the attractive and dominant unit we so desire?

Many place the blame on the manager - "Harry/Martin/Juande never gave so-and-so a chance". Others like to blame the coaches - "they got useless training and weren't moulded into the players they could be". In the forums it has even been suggested that the lack of development is solely down to the arrogant attitude and lifestyle of the modern-day over-paid footballer.

However, are we the fans partially to blame? We roundly castigate every manager for not "giving youth a chance" whilst damning them for any loss of points thanks to not playing our strongest (and under-21 absent) first eleven. What chance do they have?

Personally, given our lofty ambitions and European hopes, I don't think we as a club are in a position to be able to truly blood and develop our youngsters. We are stuck in the limbo between the gifted squads such as Man Utd - who not only have the financial clout to hoover up all the most promising talent on offer but have the strength to regularly introduce them into a comfortably winning side - and the lesser clubs who have to resort to giving youth a chance because they quite simply can't afford a better option. And we aren't alone in this. Try listing the players that have broken through the ranks at clubs of similar stature in recent years.

So what do we do? Well, I actually think Harry has the right idea. We have a relatively young average age for our first eleven which would benefit from one or two experienced, established additions in key positions. Instead of throwing money at several young "maybes" we should be investing in known quality at this time. And, as fans I think we should lower our expectations (and reduce management related criticism) concerning the youth in which we invest. For every Wayne Rooney there are a multitude of Frazier Campbells.
 

bigspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
3,193
2,419
I remember when Lennon joined, he was allowed the chance to come on and play for the last 10 or 20 minutes of a game. Slowly and surely he made that right wing his own. Where was that opportunity for Gio or Taarabt? I just don't understand how it all works any more. Was it because Harry didn't personally bring them in? Or is it because they were really that difficult to manage? Putting them out on loan to play in the lower leagues didn't help in my opinion!
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Good points but to be honest us fans have no influence on anything at all, unless the manager reads the fansites which I wouldn't advise.
In truth we have to do both, buy for the future and keep a balance in the squad.
We seem to have an exceptionally promising bunch of youngsters who have achieved real success this year. If only one or two step up thats £30 million saved.
I think that Harry used our dire position for most of the season as a reason for not playing fringe and younger players, note I say reason not excuse because his brief was to save our skins which he did.
This season perhaps Harry can give more of the youth a chance but that was one of the disadvantages of not being in Europe,less chances to blood players.
Apart from cover for Palacios I would stick with what we've got and let Gunter,Bale,Bostock, Rose,Dervite, Mason Obika and others take their chances. Not all at once of course.
 

alamo

Don't worry be happy
Jun 10, 2004
5,047
7,226
Good points but to be honest us fans have no influence on anything at aI would stick with what we've got and let Gunter,Bale,Bostock, Rose,Dervite, Mason Obika and others take their chances. Not all at once of course.

I see your point mate but at what point do any of your aforementioned warrant a place in the first eleven? Out of all you have mentioned they would be lucky to make the bench on your normal Saturday
 

Rocket

Member
Mar 23, 2006
294
10
I think we'll see more of the youngsters this year. I think we'd have been active in the transfer market by now if that wasn't the case

Didn't we have something ridiculouts like 15/16 young players out on loan the tail end of last season? We must be looking to integrate at least a few of those into the 1st team squad without the famous 2 point/ 8 games scenerio hanging over us

By the end of last season it looked like Harry's plan was to have a core squad of 18-20 players scrapping it out for places in the 1st XI, with any under achievers being moved on (he didn't hold back his thoughts re Zokora and Bentley leaving for example)

With no reserve league participation, the youngsters that aren't a part of that squad get to go out on loan to prove themselves.

I like this system as the club must get more of an idea as to who's going to make it than giving out the odd sub appearance here and there.The players who aren't up to scratch for us also put themselves in the shop window

Only downside with this is I'm sure we'll lose a few that lose patience trying to make it here after getting a taste for regular competitive football.

Players like Taarabt, Gio and Rose who looked good in the Championship and players like Obika, Dervite and Townsend who cruised League 1 will want either clear assurances about their future here, a long loan period somewhere else or to leave permanently
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
I remember when Lennon joined, he was allowed the chance to come on and play for the last 10 or 20 minutes of a game. Slowly and surely he made that right wing his own. Where was that opportunity for Gio or Taarabt? I just don't understand how it all works any more. Was it because Harry didn't personally bring them in? Or is it because they were really that difficult to manage? Putting them out on loan to play in the lower leagues didn't help in my opinion!

Taraabt and Gio seem to expect to be given an opportunity after opportunity , as if they some how deserve special treatment .

OK Routledge was injured but Lennon just went ahead and imposed himself so the manager couldn't drop him .

I don't think he's one of those aggressive small chaps who overcompensates , just that he has a mental toughness which has enabled him to succeed where Gio , Taarabt , Bentley , Rohan Ricketts , Dean Marney , Wayne Routledge flounder .

Lennon wasn't exactly an unknown , Spurs did incredibly well to get his signature and for a pittance .

Barcelona wanted to sell Gio , Leed's didn't have any choice .

The bottom line is that Gio and Taraabt are Championship players at best until they prove otherwise and an isolated hatrick for Barcelona doesn't mean a thing .
 

t-baggins

Active Member
Jun 25, 2006
384
96
With all this talk about youth not being given a chance, and where did it all go wrong, people seem to forget Spurs were on the brink of the Champions league, without spending silly money, and had a young talented (english) squad. Davids was priceless... and the likes of Defoe, Carrick, Lennon, and Keane were top young players striving to perform. What happened is we had a twat of a Director who sold our proven players... and replaced them with players that were not good enough. Ricardo Rocha? Perhaps in Portugal he could play... Unfortunately marking Kevin Davis he had no chance, and unfortunately we have learnt our lesson the hard way.

Ramos was the victim of a system we now accept as not being right for spurs (probably any side in the premiership) and when the S*it really hit the fan we signed a manager that is responsible for some of the most talented players to play in the premiership at the moment, yet he realised this was no time to risk playing our talented youngsters.

As for Adel, Gunter, they have been described as good players... in Adels case a genius in fact... and Gunter in a few terms... Gio aint a bad player. Watch him against Manu in the Carling Cup... he unfortunately was injured for much of the season, and hopefully toughened up at Ipswich as he with Bale will hopefully be able to finally solve our left sided issues!

COYS

And thank god Comolli can't mess with anything anymore!!!
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
With a slightly devil's-advocate intention, I would like to put forward a more positive spin on the same facts.

I suggest that these mainly-foreign youth signings are going to be cashed in precisely because of the success of our youth training programme, i.e., our academy side - that Harry has spotted such a level of talent amongst the likes of Townsend, Mason, Obika, Smith, Bostock, Parrett and Jansson that he reckons the next generation of young Spurs players is coming from there. And they don't appear to possess the same sense of self-importance as the undoubtedly-talented Taarabt and Dos Santos.

That's highly speculative, but I certainly think that it was one reason behind the decision to withdraw from the reserve league and also behind the sale/release of a number of players in the reserve squad who came from the previous generation of academy players. The new crop are simply better at 16 than the previous lot are at 19 and they need better development than can be provided by the low standard of football in the reserve league.

Harry Redknapp has a decades-old reputation for youth development and it was very noticeable that, amongst all of the managerial changes that followed his arrival, Alex Inglethorpe's position was never threatened. I'm happy to let them use their judgment on these issues. They see these players every day.
 

spurs_viola

Rui Costa,dreamspurs no10
Mar 10, 2005
2,454
0
Taraabt and Gio seem to expect to be given an opportunity after opportunity , as if they some how deserve special treatment .

OK Routledge was injured but Lennon just went ahead and imposed himself so the manager couldn't drop him .

I don't think he's one of those aggressive small chaps who overcompensates , just that he has a mental toughness which has enabled him to succeed where Gio , Taarabt , Bentley , Rohan Ricketts , Dean Marney , Wayne Routledge flounder .

Lennon wasn't exactly an unknown , Spurs did incredibly well to get his signature and for a pittance .

Barcelona wanted to sell Gio , Leed's didn't have any choice .

The bottom line is that Gio and Taraabt are Championship players at best until they prove otherwise and an isolated hatrick for Barcelona doesn't mean a thing .

Stereotypes bought from the lazy media reports rather than from actually looking at the facts first hand.

The fact is that Harry just does not seem to like Gio, as simple as that. There are cases like that in every club and it is unfortunate that we will probably lose a talented, willing to work hard, skillful and aware player just because of that.

If Gio happened to be a Jack Smith and Harry had brought him in himself rather than inherited him, I am absolutely certain we would have seen him in the first team much more often than Gio.
 

spursbhoy67

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2006
1,316
1,475
Adel and Gio are well respected in their own countries and probably question why Spurs signed them and then did not give them a chance. I know fans might think they have been, but in the player's minds they haven't. Good players at the right club, but at the wrong time.
 

yusrisafri

Well-Known Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,369
7,548
The problem is that they were signed by someone else and this gaffer managed to get himself sacked before he could properly uitlise them. When a new guy comes in, he has other ideas. I bet you if Harry is given at least 5 years with Spurs, then he goes and buys promising youngsters, these kids will be given the proper chance to work their way up the ranks.

Sad for Gio and Adel, but thats the reason, plain and simple.
 

alamo

Don't worry be happy
Jun 10, 2004
5,047
7,226
If Gio happened to be a Jack Smith and Harry had brought him in himself rather than inherited him, I am absolutely certain we would have seen him in the first team much more often than Gio.

Absolute rubbish.
 

glenda

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2005
1,254
78
Frank Arnersen got us Lennon for half a mil & the The Hudd for around 3 Mill. The moment i saw both of them i was thinking wow what a touch!!!

I cant say i feel the same about Prince Boateng,or tarabat. Gio will not play under harry.We have to respect his judgement he got Diarra & Glen Johnson to Pompey & they now play for Real Madrid & Liverpool.

Ps Diarra cost Madrid 24 mil & Johnson went for 18 Mill. Let Harry do his thing,i trust him. We could be where Newcastle are. COYS!!!
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
If Gio happened to be a Jack Smith...

That's garbage. How many inspired foreign bargains has Redknapp snaffled up for Portsmouth, etc.? It's quite a list.

...and Harry had brought him in himself rather than inherited him, I am absolutely certain we would have seen him in the first team much more often than Gio.

That part makes more sense, but again it's just as possible to put a positive spin on it, as yusriafri has done above. Any good manager has a mental picture of how he wants to set out his team, as well as the flexibility to adapt his plan to the available players. Harry has had to do the latter throughout his career, managing a succession of clubs that had to assemble squads through canny bargain-hunting. Now that he's finally managing a bigger club with money, he has the luxury of selling one potentially fine player who doesn't necessarily fit his team plan, isn't yet ready and appears to have night-club issues, plus another player who, however talented, apparently persists in the conviction that he's God's gift and doesn't have to play as part of a team in order to command a first team place.

Frank Arnersen got us Lennon for half a mil & the The Hudd for around 3 Mill. The moment i saw both of them i was thinking wow what a touch!!!

I think Arnesen did a brilliant job for us, but let's not forget the roll-call of at least 20 young players who came, failed to impress and were sold on: Dilevski, Hallfredsson, Limbersky, Ziegler... We needed that approach then - fill the training ground with youth and shake vigorously to see who floats to the top - because he inherited a moribund collection of overpaid 32-year-olds, but following our first 5th place finish, once we were back in Europe, it wasn't necessary anymore, because we could attract more established players at higher fees.
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
Frank Arnersen got us Lennon for half a mil & the The Hudd for around 3 Mill. The moment i saw both of them i was thinking wow what a touch!!!

I cant say i feel the same about Prince Boateng,or tarabat. Gio will not play under harry.We have to respect his judgement he got Diarra & Glen Johnson to Pompey & they now play for Real Madrid & Liverpool.

Ps Diarra cost Madrid 24 mil & Johnson went for 18 Mill. Let Harry do his thing,i trust him. We could be where Newcastle are. COYS!!!

Arneson closed the deal - and it doesn't matter how close you get if your target gets away .

Lennon was almost certainly on Spurs shopping list when Pleat was here .

People can say what they like about Pleat but he is passionate about football on these islands at all levels and knows his stuff .
 

glenda

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2005
1,254
78
Arneson closed the deal - and it doesn't matter how close you get if your target gets away .

Lennon was almost certainly on Spurs shopping list when Pleat was here .

People can say what they like about Pleat but he is passionate about football on these islands at all levels and knows his stuff .

Your right bro,I never had a problem with Pleat,he was on the case for Diego before most of the big clubs,i just dont think him & hoddle could work together.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,986
81,909
The problem is that they were signed by someone else and this gaffer managed to get himself sacked before he could properly uitlise them. When a new guy comes in, he has other ideas. I bet you if Harry is given at least 5 years with Spurs, then he goes and buys promising youngsters, these kids will be given the proper chance to work their way up the ranks.

Sad for Gio and Adel, but thats the reason, plain and simple.

I agree. Managers do like to bring in their own type of player and while Harry likes a fliar player he demands that every player do their fair share of work for the team. This means certain youngsters won't get much of a shot with harry in charge.

I just hope Harry is given plenty of time to realise his vision and given the time to bring through the younger players at the right pace in the right way.
 
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