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The Issue I Have With Certain English “Fans”

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
This is my first post but I have been looming for a year or 2 now, finally decided to make an account. Anyway I felt I needed to post my thoughts of something and would like to know if others feel the same way.

I have an issue with the toxicity of our fans (England) , recently I’ve noticed that Harry Kane has gotten an awful amount of hate from the media, Twitter, etc. and I am sure most of you know what i am talking about and previously Dele was receiving a huge amount of hate as well. I am sure it doesn’t bother Harry and Dele, although it does have me wondering, how are these “fans” going to act come the World Cup. I feel many choose club over country, but why have your club bias affect how you treat your nation’s players... I must admit, I have dislike for certain English players but come the World Cup I am going to be fully supporting them. I just have a suspicion most won’t be the same and they will let their club bias dictate their opinions and as a result their actions, which I would find upsetting. I would like to think that the whole country will be supportive but that’s very unlikely. I am interested to find out if other nations are similar in terms of club bias, etc. I just hope I am wrong and that their will be little toxicity from “fans” once the World Cup begins and that we will treat our nation’s players with the support they deserve.

Apologies if this is poorly written and all over the place, it’s quite late, I am on mobile, and I just felt the need to share my thoughts desperately and ASAP. Hope you all understand. Here’s hoping for a good end to the season, COYS!

Cheers,

E
 
Last edited:

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming from your post that this is the first World Cup you're old enough to really follow..? Playing for England at a World Cup is ALWAYS a poisonous atmosphere nowadays and has been for years. Even Italia 90 which everyone remembers as being the last time everyone really got behind the team was marred initially by all the rags undermining Robson at every chance they got. If the likes of Kane think the abuse he got for his "goal" the other week was bad then I hope for his sake he has a good tournament.

England inevitably don't achieve what's expected of them, someone gets scapegoated and is subjected to all manner of abuse from fans of every club in the country and all over the rags. My money's on either Kane or Alli being this tournament's scapegoat. They're both prime targets given that everyone already hates Alli and Kane is continually having to prove himself to everyone just because he doesn't play for Man Utd or Liverpool and also the recent fiasco has inadvertently made him seem like a bit of a prick.

Unfortunately that's just the way it works with England. And then everyone wonders why the players don't perform as well.
 

LeSoupeKitchen

Well-Known Member
Aug 18, 2011
3,102
7,621
This is my first post but I have been looming for a year or 2 now, finally decided to make an account. Anyway I felt I needed to post my thoughts of something and would like to know if others feel the same way.

I have an issue with the toxicity of our fans (England) , recently I’ve noticed that Harry Kane has gotten an awful amount of hate from the media, Twitter, etc. and I am sure most of you know what i am talking about and previously Dele was receiving a huge amount of hate as well. I am sure it doesn’t bother Harry and Dele, although it does have me wondering, how are these “fans” going to act come the World Cup. I feel many choose club over country, but why have your club bias affect how you treat your nation’s players... I must admit, I have dislike for certain English players but come the World Cup I am going to be fully supporting them. I just have a suspicion most won’t be the same and they will let their club bias dictate their opinions and as a result their actions, which I would find upsetting. I would like to think that the whole country will be supportive but that’s very unlikely. I am interested to find out if other nations are similar in terms of club bias, etc. I just hope I am wrong and that their will be little toxicity from “fans” once the World Cup begins and that we will treat our nation’s players with the support they deserve.

Apologies if this is poorly written and all over the place, it’s quite late, I am on mobile, and I just felt the need to share my thoughts desperately and ASAP. Hope you all understand. Here’s hoping for a good end to the season, COYS!

Cheers,

E

Welcome to posting!

When I was younger, as soon as a player was in an England shirt I would support them no matter what. That's changed for me and may be due to us now competing with the bigger teams so I hate their players more. I watch all friendlies and qualifiers just hoping our boys do well and don't get injured.

However, for a World Cup or Euros I'm 100% behind England. Would like for our players to be the stars but more than happy to see Henderson bundle a ball in off his shin.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm assuming from your post that this is the first World Cup you're old enough to really follow..? Playing for England at a World Cup is ALWAYS a poisonous atmosphere nowadays and has been for years. Even Italia 90 which everyone remembers as being the last time everyone really got behind the team was marred initially by all the rags undermining Robson at every chance they got. If the likes of Kane think the abuse he got for his "goal" the other week was bad then I hope for his sake he has a good tournament.

England inevitably don't achieve what's expected of them, someone gets scapegoated and is subjected to all manner of abuse from fans of every club in the country and all over the rags. My money's on either Kane or Alli being this tournament's scapegoat. They're both prime targets given that everyone already hates Alli and Kane is continually having to prove himself to everyone just because he doesn't play for Man Utd or Liverpool and also the recent fiasco has inadvertently made him seem like a bit of a prick.

Unfortunately that's just the way it works with England. And then everyone wonders why the players don't perform as well.

I am 18 years old but lived in the USA from 6-16, I did watch a couple world cups but you are right I am now old enough to truly follow it. Living in the USA also caused me to be more passionate about other sports (American football and basketball), but as I got older my passion for football grew. I was over here for 2016 EUROS and I must say that left a bad taste in my mouth, as a Spurs fan I didn’t like how our players were treated and like you said, used as scapegoats. It’s peoples nature to have a scapegoat I mean we all have done it, I mean look at our recent match threads. :whistle: Living in the US, I never remember seeing Americans slate their players during the World Cup, and I’m sure other countries are similar. Although it isn’t the biggest issue I do think it is one that could have an affect on players and I hope most of them are mentally strong. Cheers for your reply mate.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
Welcome to posting!

When I was younger, as soon as a player was in an England shirt I would support them no matter what. That's changed for me and may be due to us now competing with the bigger teams so I hate their players more. I watch all friendlies and qualifiers just hoping our boys do well and don't get injured.

However, for a World Cup or Euros I'm 100% behind England. Would like for our players to be the stars but more than happy to see Henderson bundle a ball in off his shin.
Cheers! I am similar as when I watch England friendlies I focus on our lads and hope they play well and finish injury-free too. I admit Henderson is one of the players I dislike but I understand why he is likely to play and I hope he does well and I will fully support him during the tournament. Cheers for the reply.
 
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Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
I think a great example of England fans and media during the World Cup is in a film called “Mike Bassett England Manager”, specifically watch how the media and fans treat the manager, players, etc. Obviously it’s a parody and satirical but it’s a realistic representation of our media and fans during the World Cup. Very funny film though!
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,341
87,796
I think a great example of England fans and media during the World Cup is in a film called “Mike Bassett England Manager”, specifically watch how the media and fans treat the manager, players, etc. Obviously it’s a parody and satirical but it’s a realistic representation of our media and fans during the World Cup. Very funny film though!
Love that film.

Regarding the World Cup and England... the hurt is what defines us I'm afraid. We bask in our glorious failures.

I remember being 11 during Italia 90, dazzled by Gazza and Waddle, and then crying after that penalty shoot out. And then the same, arguably worse agony when I was 17 during Euro 96, the only time I remember the whole country unified behind the team. Heady days those.
 

Rob

The Boss
Admin
Jun 8, 2003
28,014
65,116
The problem is that for a number of years the England team has been built around ****s. It’s not a club thing per se, I had no problem cheering on Lampard for England, but John Terry? No way.

There are lots of reasons players are disliked, how they act is one but how good they are is another. Dele is disliked because he’s a cheat (yes, he’s OUR cheat, but still). Kane is disliked because he’s so good.

Then you have players disliked because they’re not viewed as being good enough to be there.

It all adds up to hostility and a lack of support.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
The problem is that for a number of years the England team has been built around ****s. It’s not a club thing per se, I had no problem cheering on Lampard for England, but John Terry? No way.

There are lots of reasons players are disliked, how they act is one but how good they are is another. Dele is disliked because he’s a cheat (yes, he’s OUR cheat, but still). Kane is disliked because he’s so good.

Then you have players disliked because they’re not viewed as being good enough to be there.

It all adds up to hostility and a lack of support.
I agree and I am sure most fans will turn a blind eye if Dele wins us a pen to win a game during the tournament. :whistle:
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,638
This is my first post but I have been looming for a year or 2 now, finally decided to make an account. Anyway I felt I needed to post my thoughts of something and would like to know if others feel the same way.

I have an issue with the toxicity of our fans (England) , recently I’ve noticed that Harry Kane has gotten an awful amount of hate from the media, Twitter, etc. and I am sure most of you know what i am talking about and previously Dele was receiving a huge amount of hate as well. I am sure it doesn’t bother Harry and Dele, although it does have me wondering, how are these “fans” going to act come the World Cup. I feel many choose club over country, but why have your club bias affect how you treat your nation’s players... I must admit, I have dislike for certain English players but come the World Cup I am going to be fully supporting them. I just have a suspicion most won’t be the same and they will let their club bias dictate their opinions and as a result their actions, which I would find upsetting. I would like to think that the whole country will be supportive but that’s very unlikely. I am interested to find out if other nations are similar in terms of club bias, etc. I just hope I am wrong and that their will be little toxicity from “fans” once the World Cup begins and that we will treat our nation’s players with the support they deserve.

Apologies if this is poorly written and all over the place, it’s quite late, I am on mobile, and I just felt the need to share my thoughts desperately and ASAP. Hope you all understand. Here’s hoping for a good end to the season, COYS!

Cheers,

E
It does feel like it's getting worse in some respects and I do think that is down to social media, perhaps it's giving those idiots the chance to be more vocal about who they dislike, etc.

What I find utterly moronic (as if it wasn't moronic enough) is that this has to be one of the most likeable England teams in living memory. A lot of these players are straight-edged people, spearheaded by one of the most down-to-earth and hard-working players in Kane, yet these idiots still look for things to hate on them for.

The very first thing my cousin (Gooner) did when England got KO'd out of the Euros was post on social media something like this "hahahahahahah what do you expect with a load of shitty spuds. Useless!"

He wasn't the only one. I no longer want to share jubilations with most English people when it comes to the national team. It's only ever nothing but negativity and mud-slinging. I've been in the pub before when United players have had insults thrown at them during big tournaments. I've been at a family event where the England USA game was live and a bunch of morons starting throwing stuff because we didn't win, and some fights broke out.

I haven't lived in the UK for 5 years now and having time out of the country has made me really reflect on my own nationality and whether or not I am patriotic. I can honestly say that I don't really feel as much affinity with England as I did in my younger years. I have nothing in common with most of these fans that I meet that only want to insult or criticise.

Comparing them to Aussie, Brazilian and Portuguese fans is interesting because I see so much more unity when it comes to following their national team, especially Aussies and Portuguese fans - probably because they have no entitlement.

I went to the last WC and I met fans from all over the world and I didn't see any of these behaviours towards their national team.

The media make it mush worse. There has to be a scapegoat, we love to build some one up to knock em down.
 

Disconosebleed

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,553
2,569
Where is this idea that Kane is disliked coming from? Aside from the odd childish mocking of the way he talks, Kane has generally been shown nothing but love by fans throughout his career - that has dimmed somewhat in the past couple of weeks by the Stoke goal thing, which frankly is his own fault, albeit blown out of proportion as tends to happen nowadays with any minor transgression. And in any case, with a few exceptions (mainly Liverpool fans, who are mostly insane) it's light-hearted piss-taking rather than genuine dislike of him.

The only Tottenham player that is notably disliked by fans as far as I can see is Dele Alli, and that is entirely justified. England fans on the whole don't dislike Kane, Dier, Rose, Trippier, Winks or previously Walker. In fact, looking at recent England squads I'm not sure there is anyone who is notably disliked by the fans - Sterling is probably the closest to a hate figure but he gets nowhere near the stick Rooney used to for example, and on the whole there has been a general acceptance/resignation over the past few tournaments that pinning the failings of the national team on specific players is stupid, because the problems are wider-reaching than that.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Where is this idea that Kane is disliked coming from? Aside from the odd childish mocking of the way he talks, Kane has generally been shown nothing but love by fans throughout his career - that has dimmed somewhat in the past couple of weeks by the Stoke goal thing, which frankly is his own fault, albeit blown out of proportion as tends to happen nowadays with any minor transgression. And in any case, with a few exceptions (mainly Liverpool fans, who are mostly insane) it's light-hearted piss-taking rather than genuine dislike of him.

The only Tottenham player that is notably disliked by fans as far as I can see is Dele Alli, and that is entirely justified. England fans on the whole don't dislike Kane, Dier, Rose, Trippier, Winks or previously Walker. In fact, looking at recent England squads I'm not sure there is anyone who is notably disliked by the fans - Sterling is probably the closest to a hate figure but he gets nowhere near the stick Rooney used to for example, and on the whole there has been a general acceptance/resignation over the past few tournaments that pinning the failings of the national team on specific players is stupid, because the problems are wider-reaching than that.

Kane has always not been favoured by a lot of fans, people were calling him a one season wonder and have been doubting him all through his career and I've lost count the amount of comments I read taking the piss out of the way he talks, people calling him simple etc...Took the brunt of the criticism when England went out of the Euro's as well. The public have a very strange relationship with him, I feel many fans have a begrudging respect for him but ultimately can't wait to jump on him the minute he does something they don't like case in point last week, you can bet that if that was anyone else who is a more fashionable player like Aguero people wouldn't have made such a big deal of it. The fallout from last week seemed a little too forced for me like people were generally hating on him for no apparent reason.

Beckham went through the same thing when he played for England, public absolutely hated him, called him thick, took the piss out of the way he spoke etc.. even before the sending off but I think a lot of that was down to jealousy more than anything.

It's not the same as Alli who has done legitimate shithouse stuff on the pitch and I would probably think he's an arsehole if he played for another team.
 

kaz Hirai

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2008
17,692
25,340
Guilty.

Quite comfortably spurs before national team.
I'll be rooting for the spurs players in the summer, all of them
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,904
78,638
Where is this idea that Kane is disliked coming from? Aside from the odd childish mocking of the way he talks, Kane has generally been shown nothing but love by fans throughout his career - that has dimmed somewhat in the past couple of weeks by the Stoke goal thing, which frankly is his own fault, albeit blown out of proportion as tends to happen nowadays with any minor transgression. And in any case, with a few exceptions (mainly Liverpool fans, who are mostly insane) it's light-hearted piss-taking rather than genuine dislike of him.

The only Tottenham player that is notably disliked by fans as far as I can see is Dele Alli, and that is entirely justified. England fans on the whole don't dislike Kane, Dier, Rose, Trippier, Winks or previously Walker. In fact, looking at recent England squads I'm not sure there is anyone who is notably disliked by the fans - Sterling is probably the closest to a hate figure but he gets nowhere near the stick Rooney used to for example, and on the whole there has been a general acceptance/resignation over the past few tournaments that pinning the failings of the national team on specific players is stupid, because the problems are wider-reaching than that.
I've encountered lots of snidey comments about him. Whether it's the way he talks, him taking corners, shooting on sight and now his will to score attitude, he certainly gets a lot of flack from other fans. Compare that with Ronaldo for Portugal, the Portuguese love him and won't say anything bad about him. They have nothing but pride.

The Alli thing is frustrating too. He's clearly a good lad at heart and after the years of Gerrard diving to win England cheap penalties and not to mention Owen diving against Argentina the whole hate towards him is unjustified IMO. It's based on the fact that he is an exceptional talent and a threat to the likes of Liverpool.

The whole situation with Liverpool fans this season has also had an effect on my affinity and desire for England to do well. Them idiot bin dippers don't deserve Kane or Alli.
 

Disconosebleed

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,553
2,569
I can see the argument with Kane although I don't agree with it, and think he's broadly liked by England fans in my experience. But you are way off on Alli - it's not jealousy or tall poppy syndrome, it's because he's a wanker. He's our wanker, but he's still a wanker.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
It does feel like it's getting worse in some respects and I do think that is down to social media, perhaps it's giving those idiots the chance to be more vocal about who they dislike, etc.

What I find utterly moronic (as if it wasn't moronic enough) is that this has to be one of the most likeable England teams in living memory. A lot of these players are straight-edged people, spearheaded by one of the most down-to-earth and hard-working players in Kane, yet these idiots still look for things to hate on them for.

The very first thing my cousin (Gooner) did when England got KO'd out of the Euros was post on social media something like this "hahahahahahah what do you expect with a load of shitty spuds. Useless!"

He wasn't the only one. I no longer want to share jubilations with most English people when it comes to the national team. It's only ever nothing but negativity and mud-slinging. I've been in the pub before when United players have had insults thrown at them during big tournaments. I've been at a family event where the England USA game was live and a bunch of morons starting throwing stuff because we didn't win, and some fights broke out.

I haven't lived in the UK for 5 years now and having time out of the country has made me really reflect on my own nationality and whether or not I am patriotic. I can honestly say that I don't really feel as much affinity with England as I did in my younger years. I have nothing in common with most of these fans that I meet that only want to insult or criticise.

Comparing them to Aussie, Brazilian and Portuguese fans is interesting because I see so much more unity when it comes to following their national team, especially Aussies and Portuguese fans - probably because they have no entitlement.

I went to the last WC and I met fans from all over the world and I didn't see any of these behaviours towards their national team.

The media make it mush worse. There has to be a scapegoat, we love to build some one up to knock em down.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Everything you said I have thought about, especially the behaviour of players. I don't see any bad eggs in our England side yet people still slate them. It's almost as some people only watch England to insult players from other clubs, it's tragic. Thank you for your insight as well, I wasn't sure but I had a feeling that other nations were much more supportive of their national team. Cheers.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
Where is this idea that Kane is disliked coming from? Aside from the odd childish mocking of the way he talks, Kane has generally been shown nothing but love by fans throughout his career - that has dimmed somewhat in the past couple of weeks by the Stoke goal thing, which frankly is his own fault, albeit blown out of proportion as tends to happen nowadays with any minor transgression. And in any case, with a few exceptions (mainly Liverpool fans, who are mostly insane) it's light-hearted piss-taking rather than genuine dislike of him.

The only Tottenham player that is notably disliked by fans as far as I can see is Dele Alli, and that is entirely justified. England fans on the whole don't dislike Kane, Dier, Rose, Trippier, Winks or previously Walker. In fact, looking at recent England squads I'm not sure there is anyone who is notably disliked by the fans - Sterling is probably the closest to a hate figure but he gets nowhere near the stick Rooney used to for example, and on the whole there has been a general acceptance/resignation over the past few tournaments that pinning the failings of the national team on specific players is stupid, because the problems are wider-reaching than that.

I look at twitter quite a bit so I might have a different perspective from you. To be honest, most people on Twitter are idiots and that is where I see most the toxicity. You are probably right about most people being more civilised. I haven't seen much toxicity in person, most I have seen has been online and mainly social media. Cheers for your reply.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
I don't know how it is in other countries but tribalism is rife in England, I can imagine in Germany for example everyone hates Bayern Munich especially Dortmund and Schalke but when it's world cup or Euro's time all the fans pull together and support each other as one. Not sure if this is true but it seems like In England there always has to be a scapegoat if we fail, there always has to be a fall guy to take our frustrations out on. Even in our most successful tournament where the country was behind the England team the media and fans still scapegoated Southgate for missing that Penalty when we should have been getting behind him, it's quite spiteful when you think about it.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
Also regarding Dele, he isn't a bad person just because he dives and he isn't the only player who does. As much as England fans like it or not, diving is part of the game. People might think that it is cheating the game, but I view it more as gamesmanship.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
26
77
I don't know how it is in other countries but tribalism is rife in England, I can imagine in Germany for example everyone hates Bayern Munich especially Dortmund and Schalke but when it's world cup or Euro's time all the fans pull together and support each other as one. Not sure if this is true but it seems like In England there always has to be a scapegoat if we fail, there always has to be a fall guy to take our frustrations out on. Even in our most successful tournament where the country was behind the England team the media and fans still scapegoated Southgate for missing that Penalty when we should have been getting behind him, it's quite spiteful when you think about it.

I was thinking the same, I am sure Dortmund fans had no issue rooting for Philip Lahm during major tournaments. Fans club affiliation should be put aside during international football, and fans should support everyone wearing our colours. Maybe I am being a bit too patriotic... :D
 
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