The England Thread

[hughy]

For me racial abuse is an absolute no go area when it comes to sledging or whatever. I just don't see how there's even a debate about that whatsoever.

There is no debate. When did anyone say it was OK?

 

[dondo]

Yep don't call out racists and bigots in case you make them angry...

What a stupid comment totally taken what was said out of context

 

[Spurger King]

For me racial abuse is an absolute no go area when it comes to sledging or whatever. I just don't see how there's even a debate about that whatsoever.

I wasn’t sure how ‘sledging’ is defined. Obviously there’s a massive difference between ribbing and racial abuse. I was just talking about verbal abuse on the pitch, rather than implying it was akin to banter.

The first definition I’ve found simply says ‘the act of one sporting player verbally assaulting another in order to make them angry’, so maybe it was appropriate after all. I did say racist sledging in my original post.

 

['O Zio]

My problem is your epic overreaction to something clearly not meant with intent to offend. Don't act like you don't understand.

I don't really see how being baffled that several posters are seriously questioning whether or not racially abusing someone is within the realms of just a good old fashioned bit of sledging. The original poster I responded to asked whether it was the correct term, I said it definitely wasn't and that we should call a spade and not make excuses for it. Then suddenly there are 3 or 4 of you acting like a cheeky bit of racism is just part for the course and I'm just being some kind of SJW or something. Bizarre. I'm happy enough for people to disagree with something I post, but I never though a post basically saying "racism is not a form of sledging let's not beat around the bush, it's racial abuse plain and simple" would be something so many people would disagree with.

 

['O Zio]

I wasn’t sure how ‘sledging’ is defined. Obviously there’s a massive difference between ribbing and racial abuse. I was just talking about verbal abuse on the pitch, rather than implying it was akin to banter.

The first definition I’ve found simply says ‘the act of one sporting player verbally assaulting another in order to make them angry’, so maybe it was appropriate after all. I did say racist sledging in my original post.

Sledging is like talking smack, making fun of the other playere etc. to wind them up so they're frustrated and distracted/not concentrating on what they're doing etc. For me brushing off racism on the pitch as just a bit of sledging is letting the Montenegrans off the hook and making excuses for them. That's why I'm saying let's call a spade a spade. It's racist abuse and calling it sledging just downplays it IMO

 

[dondo]

Suppose it’s not racist when aimed at a Middle aged white English man though is it[/QUOTE]

I'm not watching. Apparently Hudson-Odoi is a hybrid of Messi and Ronaldo. Is he playing that well or is it a case of the English media over hyping yet another youngster?

He played well but fuck me do the English commentary like to hype up young players or what? Pretty embarrassing in my book and it certainly doesn’t help the players

 

['O Zio]

There is no debate. When did anyone say it was OK?

Spurger originally asks if sledging is the appropriate word for it. Ive basically said definitely not, let's not make excuses for it, then several posters have disagrees/given negative rating for it And wedewill has quoted me saying sledging gets aggressive in cricket making out like this is just par for the course.

 

[hughy]

Spurger originally asks if sledging is the appropriate word for it. Ive basically said definitely not, let's not make excuses for it, then several posters have disagrees/given negative rating for it And wedewill has quoted me saying sledging gets aggressive in cricket making out like this is just par for the course.

Again you're just taking snippets of what I've said to make it convenient for you to try and defend how you reacted.

 

[Spurger King]

Sledging is like talking smack, making fun of the other playere etc. to wind them up so they're frustrated and distracted/not concentrating on what they're doing etc. For me brushing off racism on the pitch as just a bit of sledging is letting the Montenegrans off the hook and making excuses for them. That's why I'm saying let's call a spade a spade. It's racist abuse and calling it sledging just downplays it IMO

Where did I brush it off? I used the word ‘racist’, then used the word ‘sledging’ with the caveat that it might not be appropriate.

As far as I was concerned, sledging could range from Suarez spouting racist abuse, to some Aussie cricketer making jokes about eating biscuits every time he fucks his opponent’s mum. The definitions of the word I’ve seen seem to suggest that technically I’m right, though that’s not to say it hasn’t passed into a general association with light-hearted banter.

Either way, my point was that Rose could have been extra motivated in that tackle due to on-field verbal racism.

 

['O Zio]

Again you're just taking snippets of what I've said to make it convenient for you to try and defend how you reacted.

Not really, if my answers see short it's largely because I'm on my phone and off to bed

I reacted by answering a question that was posted. I answered it quite emphatically because racism is so clearly not just sledging to me. I don't really see how that's an overreaction, if you think it is then fine. You've said your piece. I've made a post, you've disagreed with it. Let's just leave it at that it's pointless going round in circles with the whole "you said/he said"

 

['O Zio]

Where did I brush it off? I used the word ‘racist’, then used the word ‘sledging’ with the caveat that it might not be appropriate..

Right, you've said it might not be the right word, I've confirmed it's not appropriate in this situation, my reasoning being that I think calling it sledging makes it seem like it's an acceptable part of the sport, which to me it obviously isn't. I wasn't trying to accuse you of being a racist or anything so I apologise if you've taken it that way. I never I tended to start a whole squabble about it to be honest. I was just saying we should call it what it is rather than use some kind of euphemism.

 

[Shadydan]

Sorry but even though sledging/talking smack, whatever you want to call it can get pretty brutal at times, and sometimes cross the line even, for me racially abusing someone is so far over the line there's no debate. Or at least there shouldn't be. I'm actually baffled by how many people are downvoting my post for basically saying racism isnt an acceptable form of sledging

I down voted you because you overreacted and jumped all over his post unnecessarily not because of what you said about sledging.

 

[Spurger King]

Not really, if my answers see short it's largely because I'm on my phone and off to bed

I reacted by answering a question that was posted. I answered it quite emphatically because racism is so clearly not just sledging to me. I don't really see how that's an overreaction, if you think it is then fine. You've said your piece. I've made a post, you've disagreed with it. Let's just leave it at that it's pointless going round in circles with the whole "you said/he said"

Personally I’ve not taken any offence, and I see your point. I literally just wasn’t sure if sledging is a generic term for verbal abuse between players (which it apparently is), or if it had evolved in public perception to be looked upon as mere banter (which it apparently has).

I’ll just call it racism in the future. I certainly don’t think racism can ever be banter.

 

[kaz Hirai]

Particularly when Montenegro is a Balkan country and nowhere near the ex-soviet union...

Rusty on your history and geography I guess.

Montenegro used to part of the skj

Nice friendly welcoming flag

And they were part of the USSR up to the 50s
To which they remained communist and influenced until the 90s with break of skj

 

[McFlash]

Sledging? Sledging is calling someone shit or making fun of them when you get past them, not when you spout all kinds of vile comments based on the colour of someone's skin. Call a spade a spade mate. It's racial abuse plain and simple. Sledging? Come off it

I think your post comes across as unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational, I don't know whether it was intentionally so, or not.
This is probably why people appear to have taken umbrage to it.

Racism is a touchy subject and one people understadably get passionate about but I don't think many (or any) posters saw anything wrong in what @Spurger King said.

I don't think his comment deserved a response that reads the way yours does.
Probably just a miscommunication though.

 

[nailsy]

Sledging? Sledging is calling someone shit or making fun of them when you get past them, not when you spout all kinds of vile comments based on the colour of someone's skin. Call a spade a spade mate. It's racial abuse plain and simple. Sledging? Come off it

Leave him alone. He had the same English teacher as Dean Saunders.

 

[teok]

Great result given the circumstances. I think the whole team was expecting the nasty atmosphere. They have so much previous at that place.

 

[Gassin's finest]

What a stupid comment totally taken what was said out of context

Why and how?

Suppose it’s not racist when aimed at a Middle aged white English man though is it

Not really.

 

['O Zio]

I think your post comes across as unnecessarily aggressive and confrontational, I don't know whether it was intentionally so, or not.
This is probably why people appear to have taken umbrage to it.

Racism is a touchy subject and one people understadably get passionate about but I don't think many (or any) posters saw anything wrong in what @Spurger King said.

I don't think his comment deserved a response that reads the way yours does.
Probably just a miscommunication though.

Never meant it to be confrontational at all. I was only saying we shouldnt make some kind of euphemism for it by calling it sledging because, as I explained in another post, that makes it sound like it's just part of the game. Hence me saying call a spade a spade and say racist abuse rather than some euphemism like sledging. Obviously I've worded it poorly given the reaction though I suppose. I've apologized so that's that as far as I'm concerned. Like I say, I never meant it to become some big squabble about anything. I though what I posted was pretty hard to disagree with to be honest. Like I say, I've obviously expressed what I was trying to say poorly though

 

[hughy]

Never meant it to be confrontational at all. I was only saying we shouldnt make some kind of euphemism for it by calling it sledging because, as I explained in another post, that makes it sound like it's just part of the game. Hence me saying call a spade a spade and say racist abuse rather than some euphemism like sledging. Obviously I've worded it poorly given the reaction though I suppose. I've apologized so that's that as far as I'm concerned. Like I say, I never meant it to become some big squabble about anything. I though what I posted was pretty hard to disagree with to be honest. Like I say, I've obviously expressed what I was trying to say poorly though

I think it was all just a bit of a misunderstanding in the heat of the moment. I apologise for anything I said too.

We're clearly all on the same team in believing that what happened to Sterling, CHO and Rose last night was totally unacceptable, and I hope that UEFA act accordingly. Instances like this can't keep being swept under the rug, especially considering Montenegro (particularly their club teams) have previous.