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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread 2nd August

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Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
But Levy shouldn't be making decisions based on a fear of financial loss or a lack of season ticket renewals. He should be aggressive and more forward thinking than that.

He's a fan as well and the game is about glory. I really worry he focuses his decision making on the business side of things, risk/ reward far too much.

If he's only going to spend to keep Poch sweet and ensure season tickets are renewed in 2019 and so on, I ain't sure he's got the frame of mind needed to take this club any further than he already has. We may well have seen Levys ceiling on this one

what your suggesting over your last few post isn't going to work. your talking about players that don't want to move put them in the back ground (still costing us in wages). if you treat them like that what's to say they show no respect back and just stay and run their contracts down, then we are in the same boat next season (even if the windows close at the same time next season) but because we now have a squad of 31 players we can't sign anyone to improve the following season.

if we can't sign the players this season due to not getting rid, we will have to suffer
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Feb 18, 2006
6,409
10,931
I‘ve been a season ticket holder for 18 years and while I would never stop going to spurs because of how we perform in the league, I certainly expected more ambition from us in the transfer market with the price increase of season tickets - would be a massive disappointment and missed opportunity to make a statement entering the new stadium
Spot on, I’ve got 2 expensive season tickets and even got duped into my company taking a share of a box. I really expected some major statement given the massive increase in revenue. However, that aside if the window closed today we aren’t in that bad shape, as all our competitors, bar Liverpool, have really done very little business so relatively we aren’t behind and you can then make the case about injured players returning and argue whether we could be stronger. The issue is how we perform in this last week relative to our competition. I’m sure the chat on boards at the Manc clubs or Chelski is far more despondent than here given their sense of entitlement. No excuse for Levy but just trying to put some perspective on things.
 

spursintheblood

SC Supporter
Aug 3, 2004
824
1,081
Had enough. He's let us down time and again. But this window was crucial, in terms of keeping our best players, and manager. And we're so close in terms of competing for major trophies. If Levy can't get behind this, then he needs to fuck off

In relation to the ITK we have had, we are continually told to take it with a pinch of salt. There might be issues shifting players, the window closing early for us forcing difficult decisions etc. But in relation to your post we have retained the services of our manager and key striker with nice big significant contracts. We have the best training facilities, a burgeoning academy and are going into the newest and most exciting stadium in the World. Who did that? Alan Sugar? Irving Scholar? We may have Joe Lewis as an "owner", but we are a club doing things the right way.

Levy is the principle reason for that. He stumbled at the start with Hoddle and Graham, he might be a pain in the arse with his tactics, but look what they have built. History offers perspective.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2017
1,665
6,291
Scruffy shit? That’s over £30m quid plus in investment plus wages. Get back to reality. You don’t buy when you’ve already got payments Impacting cash flow. This isn’t football manager you know.

If we don't sign class can you honestly see players like Eriksen wanting to hang around in their peak years? Janssen hasn't made it, couldn't even cut it at Fenerbache, GKN couldn't cut it during a loan deal at Burnley and Llorente looks like a statue when he plays up top for us (16 games either starting or off the bench and 1 Premier League goal & couldn't even make the bench towards the end of the year). I can't believe we'd let players like this hinder us from grabbing a star if someone was up for grabs.

I know they cost wages and I know they are investments but they are investments we should look to move on either permanently or on loan be it before our window closes or after. To Dare Is To Do, we need to take this opportunity to genuinely stake our claim as one of footballs heavyweights again, not just expect Pochettino to overperform yet again. Mauricio, the players and the fans paying for Somme of the most expensive tickets in football should get a little class to help them move onto the next stage now, the club is ready to
 

St José Dominguez

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,592
11,648
Surprised so few saw this coming. When we were all hyped about ITK relating to a 150m spend it was obvious most of this was going to be funded by sales. The risk in that strategy is its all dependant on how much you get for your players or if get anything at all.

Everyone was going on about how we'll be getting 20m or 40m or 60m for X, Y and Z players as it fit this idea that we'd have enough to improve the squad. The budget before sales was always tiny, we should all have been prepared that if no one wants our players then there was a good chance we'd only buy maybe one player, such as Grealish.
We can't be fine with the spend when it's at 150m and not be fine now, it's the same amount spent by the club. If you've got a problem it's not how much we spend its how we go about raising it. With us just having built a new stadium I'm not sure why anyone thought we'd just pluck 100m out of thin air and not care about the sales to claw it back.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2017
1,665
6,291
what your suggesting over your last few post isn't going to work. your talking about players that don't want to move put them in the back ground (still costing us in wages). if you treat them like that what's to say they show no respect back and just stay and run their contracts down, then we are in the same boat next season (even if the windows close at the same time next season) but because we now have a squad of 31 players we can't sign anyone to improve the following season.

if we can't sign the players this season due to not getting rid, we will have to suffer

Ok, do you honestly think we should, as a club at this genuinely opportunistic moment be in a situation where the likes of GKN, Vincent Janssen & Fernando Llorente prevent us from singing a genuine gamechanger? I cannot think of another big club that would let those kind of players stand in their way of signing someone that could add that extra 5% needed to win us trophies. If we don't have a bit of ruthlessness now with players like Lloris, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dele and Kane in our ranks we'll miss the chance of a lifetime to propel us to where we have strived to be since the 60's.

Levy needs to make huge decisions and the right one is to risk bringing someone proper in and hoping that we can shift those 3 when the European window closes. If he can't then it's another season of having 3 players that didn't play any part in our season apart from Llorentes 1 goal in our ranks for another 12 months at £20k per week, £25k per week & £75k per week.

I'm a huge fan of Daniel Levys but successful people adapt and take risks when need be and I honestly feel he needs to take a risk this time around. Relatively low financial risk in the grand scheme of things keeping fringe players on for another year should no one come in for them, possible high reward. I think we are ready to take the big boy plunge
 

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
They're absolute clowns if they didn't. How can you not? It's common sense.

As for Levy, I am pissed off as it stands today. I am one of his biggest defenders but the fact is his transfer policy is a double edged sword. Poch could not have been more explicit in what he wanted. Risks taken. Players in early. Levy seems to think the Kane contract was the big risk. He's no idiot. He's a twenty year plus experienced businessman with a Cambridge degree. He's done so many transfer windows. He's done windows with World Cups. He should have known it would be hard, let alone with the stupidity of a window shutting three weeks earlier here than elsewhere, living the majority of PL clubs screwed over. Whether he liked it or not his hand was forced. If he was going to back Poch he had to swallow his pride this one time and pay the market rate. he needed to make a statement and bring in at least one body early. He has not done so.

Let's not kid ourselves that there is no problem repeating itself on a regular basis. Look at history. Ramos, Redknapp and AVB have all spoken of not getting the players they wanted when they felt it was necessary to push on. Poch may be be saying the right things to the media, but he has looked a lot less enthused lately and I am very concerned that he is beginning to have doubts. The very last thing we need is to lose him and I would hate for Levy to be arrogant and think he can just get someone else in to do the same job. He should know what he had when he has it and he already frustrated Poch last year. Sure, we have been lucky that Poch has been able to take relative unknowns and youth and build them. But that's obviously not all he wants and Levy seems to expect Poch to work miracles while at a disadvantage.

I am not saying we should be one of these clubs that spends rashly or over the top. But occasionally you need to adapt to the market and the situation per window. Not try and play the same strategy over and over even when it doesn't fit. But it seems to me that Levy just cannot help himself and adapt and as a result it is the one area where, in my opinion, he could be doing better. Levy has no problem taking fans for a ride with his measily "free postage for a weekend" offers in the club mail order shop or charging an extra small fortune for season tickets. He needs to start repaying the fans, the manager and the players with investment in the squad, otherwise he's on course to experience what Arsenal's board have faced for the past few years. Unhappy fans and players thinking the club lacks ambition.

Sorry for the rant, but Ali's ITK has made me feel a bit grumpy.


Too bad there's not a 5-star rating.
 

Original # 10

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2008
1,013
1,609
They're absolute clowns if they didn't. How can you not? It's common sense.

As for Levy, I am pissed off as it stands today. I am one of his biggest defenders but the fact is his transfer policy is a double edged sword. Poch could not have been more explicit in what he wanted. Risks taken. Players in early. Levy seems to think the Kane contract was the big risk. He's no idiot. He's a twenty year plus experienced businessman with a Cambridge degree. He's done so many transfer windows. He's done windows with World Cups. He should have known it would be hard, let alone with the stupidity of a window shutting three weeks earlier here than elsewhere, living the majority of PL clubs screwed over. Whether he liked it or not his hand was forced. If he was going to back Poch he had to swallow his pride this one time and pay the market rate. he needed to make a statement and bring in at least one body early. He has not done so.

Let's not kid ourselves that there is no problem repeating itself on a regular basis. Look at history. Ramos, Redknapp and AVB have all spoken of not getting the players they wanted when they felt it was necessary to push on. Poch may be be saying the right things to the media, but he has looked a lot less enthused lately and I am very concerned that he is beginning to have doubts. The very last thing we need is to lose him and I would hate for Levy to be arrogant and think he can just get someone else in to do the same job. He should know what he had when he has it and he already frustrated Poch last year. Sure, we have been lucky that Poch has been able to take relative unknowns and youth and build them. But that's obviously not all he wants and Levy seems to expect Poch to work miracles while at a disadvantage.

I am not saying we should be one of these clubs that spends rashly or over the top. But occasionally you need to adapt to the market and the situation per window. Not try and play the same strategy over and over even when it doesn't fit. But it seems to me that Levy just cannot help himself and adapt and as a result it is the one area where, in my opinion, he could be doing better. Levy has no problem taking fans for a ride with his measily "free postage for a weekend" offers in the club mail order shop or charging an extra small fortune for season tickets. He needs to start repaying the fans, the manager and the players with investment in the squad, otherwise he's on course to experience what Arsenal's board have faced for the past few years. Unhappy fans and players thinking the club lacks ambition.

Sorry for the rant, but Ali's ITK has made me feel a bit grumpy.

One of the posts of the window.
Absolutely outstanding sir.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
They're absolute clowns if they didn't. How can you not? It's common sense.

As for Levy, I am pissed off as it stands today. I am one of his biggest defenders but the fact is his transfer policy is a double edged sword. Poch could not have been more explicit in what he wanted. Risks taken. Players in early. Levy seems to think the Kane contract was the big risk. He's no idiot. He's a twenty year plus experienced businessman with a Cambridge degree. He's done so many transfer windows. He's done windows with World Cups. He should have known it would be hard, let alone with the stupidity of a window shutting three weeks earlier here than elsewhere, living the majority of PL clubs screwed over. Whether he liked it or not his hand was forced. If he was going to back Poch he had to swallow his pride this one time and pay the market rate. he needed to make a statement and bring in at least one body early. He has not done so.

Let's not kid ourselves that there is no problem repeating itself on a regular basis. Look at history. Ramos, Redknapp and AVB have all spoken of not getting the players they wanted when they felt it was necessary to push on. Poch may be be saying the right things to the media, but he has looked a lot less enthused lately and I am very concerned that he is beginning to have doubts. The very last thing we need is to lose him and I would hate for Levy to be arrogant and think he can just get someone else in to do the same job. He should know what he had when he has it and he already frustrated Poch last year. Sure, we have been lucky that Poch has been able to take relative unknowns and youth and build them. But that's obviously not all he wants and Levy seems to expect Poch to work miracles while at a disadvantage.

I am not saying we should be one of these clubs that spends rashly or over the top. But occasionally you need to adapt to the market and the situation per window. Not try and play the same strategy over and over even when it doesn't fit. But it seems to me that Levy just cannot help himself and adapt and as a result it is the one area where, in my opinion, he could be doing better. Levy has no problem taking fans for a ride with his measily "free postage for a weekend" offers in the club mail order shop or charging an extra small fortune for season tickets. He needs to start repaying the fans, the manager and the players with investment in the squad, otherwise he's on course to experience what Arsenal's board have faced for the past few years. Unhappy fans and players thinking the club lacks ambition.

Sorry for the rant, but Ali's ITK has made me feel a bit grumpy.

I put a post earlier in the Martial thread not a clue how to hide it here with a spoiler like others do (Old, thick and tired sorry), but no one knows for definite what we have tried for so far other than Grealish (and that was most probably an attempt at a Brucie bonus) we was told we had up to 150m to spend, and at the time believed we would get a fair bit back with Toby and Dembele, which has backfired. We don't have 2-300m to spend.

Poch wanted players in early, we tried for de Ligt, so do you think paying 70m and loaning him back for a season is backing Poch, or do you think because that deal fell through we should just go buy someone not on Poch's list, yet again not backing him plus 20m more than expected.

we then heard whispers about Martial, another Poch target (whether it was rumours or what, but 55m) Man U make a statement he is not for sale, especially to a rival, and put an 89m price tag on him, what is Levy meant to do

we then heard about Grealish, but Levy has tried to pull a fast 1, because of the situation that Villa where in, but the feed back was Villa where holding the deal up. most probably because they wanted 25m+ up front I don't know. So yes by sounds of it Levy f'd up.

then we hear Zaha fee agreed and it's Zaha's choice, not Levy's not Poch's it's Zaha's, and due to the dead, alive, dead feed back no one knows whats happening. always a chance that Palace (who never had any money to spend a little while back) are holding back the deal so they can get all their signings done wanted it kept out the papers, to keep the cost down on incomings, and once done Zaha becomes available (I don't even want him, or Martial).

all those that are having a go at Levy, it's mainly because of his past rep, and no doubt it might be his fault, but we don't have a bottomless pit of cash, and obviously the plans we did have, have also been effected by previous windows buying to many non HG and not being good enough for clubs to rush in for their services.

anyway what I wrote is in this link below
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/anthony-martial.132636/page-128#post-5983379
 

ikky

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
8,951
21,262
Didn’t Burnley want n’koudou loan to have an option to buy on it but Levy refused? Most likely Levy thought he could sell him at a much higher price.
 

Stamford

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2015
4,121
19,829
In relation to the ITK we have had, we are continually told to take it with a pinch of salt. There might be issues shifting players, the window closing early for us forcing difficult decisions etc. But in relation to your post we have retained the services of our manager and key striker with nice big significant contracts. We have the best training facilities, a burgeoning academy and are going into the newest and most exciting stadium in the World. Who did that? Alan Sugar? Irving Scholar? We may have Joe Lewis as an "owner", but we are a club doing things the right way.

Levy is the principle reason for that. He stumbled at the start with Hoddle and Graham, he might be a pain in the arse with his tactics, but look what they have built. History offers perspective.

All ITK is taken with salt and grateful of it however keeping key players isn't enough we are in the champions league and should be acting as so. Nobody congratulates our rivals for holding on to their players. We should be kicking on and investing slightly more than previous windows. We pay the highest season ticket fees and that isn't for the best training facilities or stadium its about what happens on the pitch. If they don't invest serious money in the next few days for me its a huge betrayal to the manager and these players.
 

crokey

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2012
2,433
7,467
But Levy shouldn't be making decisions based on a fear of financial loss or a lack of season ticket renewals. He should be aggressive and more forward thinking than that.

He's a fan as well and the game is about glory. I really worry he focuses his decision making on the business side of things, risk/ reward far too much.

If he's only going to spend to keep Poch sweet and ensure season tickets are renewed in 2019 and so on, I ain't sure he's got the frame of mind needed to take this club any further than he already has. We may well have seen Levys ceiling on this one

He's probably making 100% of all decisions based on the business side of things, as he should do. That's literally his job description.
 

ToDarrenIsToDo

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2017
1,665
6,291
If you make all of your decisions based purely on business and not sometimes based on the footballing needs being greater then you'll never take sufficient enough risks to ensure you make the club great again.

I love Levys business prudency but sometimes in life a moment of opportunity opens and he has this window with a player like Martial's class being available to him.

Ps from a business perspective Martial if exchanged for Alderweireld wouldn't actually be a big risk seeing as Toby only cost £11.5m, is only worth £25m next summer and with Toby thrown in, something along the lines of £30m-£35m could possibly get him. If anything Martial's value as a hot prospect 22 year old will even go up so it could even make business sense afterall if the market continues to blow up like it is (which I don't think it will for the record, I don't think it's sustainable)
 

Achap

Well-Known Member
Nov 3, 2009
501
810
If you make all of your decisions based purely on business and not sometimes based on the footballing needs being greater then you'll never take sufficient enough risks to ensure you make the club great again.

I love Levys business prudency but sometimes in life a moment of opportunity opens and he has this window with a player like Martial's class being available to him.

Ps from a business perspective Martial if exchanged for Alderweireld wouldn't actually be a big risk seeing as Toby only cost £11.5m, is only worth £25m next summer and with Toby thrown in, something along the lines of £30m-£35m could possibly get him. If anything Martial's value as a hot prospect 22 year old will even go up so it could even make business sense afterall if the market continues to blow up like it is (which I don't think it will for the record, I don't think it's sustainable)

Brilliant! You've certanly convinced me!

Now all you have to do is convince Ed Woodward to sell to us, and you'll be a hero on here.
 

gavspur

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2004
5,255
8,686
Ali Z:

Personal opinion but I feel we have made a huge mess of this window all be it with some things going against us. If we have any incomings they will be HG, that limits us hugely in what we can bring in, we were expecting Toby, Dembele, GNK, Sissoko,Jansen and LLorente to attract interest and fully expected 4/5 of them out, the first two seemed to price themselves out of the market, whilst any potential suitors are waiting till our window closes to get there bargains, still think we will get 1/2 in and that a few will go, probably after our window closes.

Problem should be sorted going forward ad Dembele and LLorente have 1 year left on deals and Toby will almost certainly go sooner or later.
.

Brilliant. Now I can sleep better. By stabbing my self in the eyes, with spoons, wooden ones.
 

SpursSince1980

Well-Known Member
Jan 23, 2011
4,731
14,437
Ok, do you honestly think we should, as a club at this genuinely opportunistic moment be in a situation where the likes of GKN, Vincent Janssen & Fernando Llorente prevent us from singing a genuine gamechanger? I cannot think of another big club that would let those kind of players stand in their way of signing someone that could add that extra 5% needed to win us trophies. If we don't have a bit of ruthlessness now with players like Lloris, Vertonghen, Sanchez, Eriksen, Dele and Kane in our ranks we'll miss the chance of a lifetime to propel us to where we have strived to be since the 60's.

Levy needs to make huge decisions and the right one is to risk bringing someone proper in and hoping that we can shift those 3 when the European window closes. If he can't then it's another season of having 3 players that didn't play any part in our season apart from Llorentes 1 goal in our ranks for another 12 months at £20k per week, £25k per week & £75k per week.

I'm a huge fan of Daniel Levys but successful people adapt and take risks when need be and I honestly feel he needs to take a risk this time around. Relatively low financial risk in the grand scheme of things keeping fringe players on for another year should no one come in for them, possible high reward. I think we are ready to take the big boy plunge

I fully understand your point, and it’s validated by what was said by AlliZ... albeit onions and all that. Point being, that there seems (on the surface) to have been some significant miscues this summer by the likes of Levy and co. Which is depressing insomuch that they are shrewd businessmen, who fully understand the complications of this TW and likewise, comprehend the critical nature of the opportunity and risks hitherto associated. They would have or should have planned for this.

They would have known that to achieve what the coach, players, and fans were expecting, they’d need to speculate and perhaps live by the motto of the club... ‘To dare is to do’. It’s bullshit to use the ‘we don’t have bottomless wells of money’ to spend excuse. We do have money. Quite a lot by all accounts. But we have a chairman that’s been gambling at a time when we need bravery and ruthlessness. That doesn’t mean throwing caution to the wind. However, it also doesn’t mean that you resort to antiquated tactics that applied to a bygone era, thinking you can bend the will of the window to your way of working. That’s willful arrogance that can potentially result in some significant damage that can’t be undone.

Time to live by our motto methinks. But somehow I doubt that’ll happen. At this stage I’m simply hoping we don’t sell folks without replacements. I’ve resigned myself to the likely outcome that we will at best bring in one, but more likely none. Is it the end of the world? No. We have an excellent squad. Just a pity and missed opportunity that might piss off the one person we can’t afford to piss off and then see walk away.
 
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Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
So the main lesson is that buying shitty players can be a hindrance and we should probably try and avoing doing that in the future. It'll be interesting to see how the relatively new setup fares.
 
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