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The Daily ITK Discussion Thread - 22nd January 2019

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0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,201
43,790
I posted this last August, lets not forget...

“Earlier in the week I mentioned that maybe it wasnt DL who didnt want to spend, I was also told that MP wants to promote/use more of the youth….”

And I think we all agree that Poch has an ethos in which utilising a close knit squad and promoting some youth when appropriate (occasionally) is his preferred method.

However it has also been clear over the last 18 months from various bits of ITK - that there are players that he would accept and welcome in to his squad if the Club went ahead and signed his targets.
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
Mar 9, 2005
3,107
3,166
Timo, we don’t want to splash circa 70-80% our budget on one player. Interest is/was very, very real. But, we do not have the necessary finances to gamble nearly all on one player.

If we are talking 70% or so of our £100m budget, that's the price of a top forward - maybe even regarded as cheap if he's a hit...

In fact, if that's what we're talking about - we should be jumping into the deal asap... If its £40m for Grealish or £70/80m for Timo...Get Timo now!!!
 

Kiedis

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2013
2,926
8,490
Poch saving all the good targets for when he goes to United :mad:

On a serious note, I quite like that the way he seemingly decides in august that "this is my squad, and I'll trust that squad". So far he's performed magic with it, but I would like some succession planning for Eriksen. If he goes in the summer and Poch only want Isco, Dybala or Pogba (random names) to replace him, then he's setting himself up for being berry berry disappointed.
 

JacoZA

Well-Known Member
Aug 2, 2013
889
4,797
I posted this last August, lets not forget...

“Earlier in the week I mentioned that maybe it wasnt DL who didnt want to spend, I was also told that MP wants to promote/use more of the youth….”
Pretty sure Poch has even mentioned this directly - in a presser, interview or in his book. So ITK and official message aligns, but some still argue.
 

pablo73

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
3,978
13,596
I'm sure he does want to promote youth over the players he is being offered but I'm sure he would much rather have his preferred targets. Let's please not pretend that we haven't been here before with other managers, there is one constant.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Sep 1, 2014
2,674
7,717
Pretty sure Poch has even mentioned this directly - in a presser, interview or in his book. So ITK and official message aligns, but some still argue.
And yet in his pressers he is often asked about incomings only to reply, "No, I didn't hear anything..." then he looks to Jesus for clarification: "No I didn't hear anything yet..." (on players we are trying for)
 

joelstinton14

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2011
1,295
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And I think we all agree that Poch has an ethos in which utilising a close knit squad and promoting some youth when appropriate (occasionally) is his preferred method.

However it has also been clear over the last 18 months from various bits of ITK - that there are players that he would accept and welcome in to his squad if the Club went ahead and signed his targets.

I would say, those various bits of ITK also say that a few players have simply turned us down, Players like Balde, De Jong. I think the club genuinely do put in 'reasonable' offers but i think players have a greater sense of their ability (Rightly or wrongly) and hold out for moves to the elite clubs and that clubs which bigger clubs feed off have learnt to dig their heels in in keeping their players (Sessegnon, Zaha)

With Grealish and Barkley I kind of get the sense that like Andre Gomez the gaffer is unsure on them and they're just stop gaps and is not fussed either way whether we sign them or not. Maybe not Barkley but he got injured at the wrong time abeit us messing around haggling.
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
Think people need to take a step back.

What if our budget is £100m. What if yes Werner costs 60/70m now but 40m come summer? We rush it through now and pay a premium just for the next couple of games. 2 weeks and we have Son, Lucas and Sissoko back.

Do we really want to throw £20-£30m away for a player to cover for the next few games? Who will probably take a couple weeks to get up to speed anyway (Poch never ever puts new signings in straight away)

We have enough of a squad to secure top 4. This season is an anomaly compared to others. We are ahead of where we wanted to be by this time so perhaps we have to take a short step back to take a massive leap forward - it’s how we’ve progressed over the last 10 years

Agree with the sentiment on the whole but 'a few games' is probably underselling this upcoming period.

In the next 6ish weeks where Kane and Dele are out we have a cup semi final (and possible final), a tough away FA Cup tie at Palace, CL first leg against Dortmund and 5-6 PL games, including Chelsea and Arsenal. It's not unfeasible that we come out of this period out of all cups and outside the top 4. Obviously I hope this isn't the case.

Maybe Poch will be proved right for putting faith in to Llorente, Lucas and Lamela but I'm not convinced, especially with Lamela's injury record and current form. We struggled to beat the team with the worst defence in the PL on Sunday, and that was with Dele. We may think our next 3-4 are easy, but I wouldn't say any are easier than Fulham.

The club obviously isn't convinced either, I hope something will give and we bring a quality attacker in. If we take Werner for example then we could be looking at a key attacker for us for the next 5+ years. He'd be a hell a lot more of an asset than a 'Kane backup'. We've played around with formations that would suit a player of this profile too. I'd be very tempted to go for him now, with a view to either use Eriksen deeper going forward or if sold use his funds to bolster CM rather than attack. I honestly think Poch believes in Winks big time too.
 

dfree

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2018
259
1,194
Poch can't care about implementing youth that much if KWP never plays despite Trippier making mistakes week in week out ?
 

DiamondLites

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
4,630
13,062
I find that Werner ITK confusing - we/Poch don’t want wholesale squad changes and only the right 1 or 2 players as we have been told, yet we don’t want to splash 70% of our budget on one player. So instead we will spend 0% of the budget and not get a player Poch wants to improve the team. Something doesn’t add up
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
I find that Werner ITK confusing - we/Poch don’t want wholesale squad changes and only the right 1 or 2 players as we have been told, yet we don’t want to splash 70% of our budget on one player. So instead we will spend 0% of the budget and not get a player Poch wants to improve the team. Something doesn’t add up
Because if we are blowing most of our budget it should be on a CM, not a player who would be great to have but is not an absolute necessity just because players are injured?
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,053
Poch can't care about implementing youth that much if KWP never plays despite Trippier making mistakes week in week out ?
I thought it was understood Poch is waiting for him to bulk up somewhat as he considers him currently too slight for most PL games. He is therefore being very selective as to when he plays him.
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
24,362
43,015
The heirarchy at this club just seem to be in a state of complete paralysis when it comes to transfer dealings now with the default situation being "stick to what we've got " or even more laughable of promoting youth which Poch has a relatively shit record for despite what his media reputation attributes him.

What about the intangible effect of new bodies in - players lifted/competition for places and a sense that the club is pushing forward to actively compete with their rivals and ultimately win trophies?!

This is all very latter stages of Wenger's reign with self preservation in a sense that "look what I have done with limited resources at my disposal" with Poch trying to alleviate the fact that we can't properly compete for trophies or match our contemporaries.

It's wearing fucking thin now I have to say...
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,640
If we are talking 70% or so of our £100m budget, that's the price of a top forward - maybe even regarded as cheap if he's a hit...

In fact, if that's what we're talking about - we should be jumping into the deal asap... If its £40m for Grealish or £70/80m for Timo...Get Timo now!!!
But then we'd have limited funds for a CM. If we are going to blow our budget I'd rather it be on a CM that can take us to the next level as opposed to another attacker that will need to force his way past Kane, Alli, Son, Lucas and Lamela (not saying it would be nice mind)
 

FibreOpticJesus

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2005
2,788
4,991
I posted this last August, lets not forget...

“Earlier in the week I mentioned that maybe it wasnt DL who didnt want to spend, I was also told that MP wants to promote/use more of the youth….”


Thanks for the update. And all very well for Poch but our current stars want some cups and medals and if they believe that to achieve their aspirations the squad needs strengthening from outside they will march with their feet to other teams if it doesn't happen. It's a fine balance but I think with all that we know that the youth will not entirely meet those aspirations.
 

fatpiranha

dismember
Jun 9, 2003
8,337
21,678
I don't feel that we missed out on Grealish and Barkley, and certainly not on Andre Gomez who is a bullet dodged. I'm happy to wait for someone that either Poch really wants, is a top prospect, or who will improve the 1st team, as long as we eventually get those types of players. ITK says we are trying.

What will eventually become very old is if it continues as in recent seasons where we are always "trying" and never getting. 'Jam tomorrow' is fine by me so long as when tomorrow comes there's actually some jam.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,389
I'm sure Poch and Daniel Levy are singing from the same song sheet. The fact is that we've over-achieved several years in a row now and are well ahead of schedule. Unfortunately, fans expectations have been dragged along at the same pace but it's obviously unrealistic to expect us to throw cash around like our rivals. Poch has always asked for patience which to me indicates that he's here for the long game which is about as good as it gets. We're building something special here.
 

Fredo

Realist
Jun 8, 2018
3,934
17,956
I just can't believe some people are content with playing the kids/reserves instead of splashing say 70% of budget on Werner (who has to be liked by Poch otherwise I have no idea what he's thinking). Have some ambition.

Waiting for the summer would be a greedy, arrogant and naive move by the club, just in order to save a few million quid. I say few because 40m (supposed Werner price in summer) is basically fuck all now, that would be totally covered by getting top 4. But instead we'd rather spend 0 and risk losing top 4 to get targets in the summer, but if we do miss out, then we're at square 1 again where our players will want to leave due to no CL, players won't come without CL. Besides, who's to even say they'd come this summer; Werner will clearly have demand at 40m from all the Elite clubs which will just push his price back up to what it is today or even higher who knows.

This could be Levy's biggest mistake at his time at the club and I hope we all don't suffer from it.
 
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