"Sunderland ‘Til I Die" - netflix documentary

'O Zio

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#61
I'm not saying it was a major reason, but talk about creating a toxic atmosphere before the season had even started. Losing a friendly is hardly a crisis, and practically rioting in the streets overs friendly lost is absolutely ridiculous.
I get what you're saying but I think it's just a case of the straw that broke the camels back or whatever you want to call it. They weren't rioting in the streets because they lost a friendly, it was because of everything all together that they've been going through over the past howver many years.

I agree though it probably doesn't really help the team.
 

dontcallme

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#62
I'm not saying it was a major reason, but talk about creating a toxic atmosphere before the season had even started. Losing a friendly is hardly a crisis, and practically rioting in the streets overs friendly lost is absolutely ridiculous.
I agree with you both.

The Sunderland fans are clearly mostly working class. They have spent a huge amount of time and money to see their team become useless.

Seeing them get destroyed against Celtic clearly gave them that feeling that they were declining further.

Throughout the series it was so audible hearing boos after a conceded goal.

A toxic atmosphere had been created.
 

mattdefoe

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#64
I'm in two minds about Rodwell to be honest. Yes he's a complete **** generally so I understand the hatred for him, but at the same time it's not really his fault he's in the situation, it's the club's fault. They're expecting him to just walk away from millions of pounds to do them a favour but why should he? Especially given that they've then left him to rot with the kids as a punishment so if he did agree to leave, he'd only get a really shit contract at another club. If he's on 60k/week at Sunderland for the next X amount of months, why on earth would he walk away from that to sign a contract for 10k/week at e.g. Southend or whoever? It just doesn't make any sense for him to do that. Yes I can understand that it's hurting the club but at the end of the day he's got himself and his family to look after first and foremost, not his employer and the mess they've created for themselves.

IMO they should've either sold him while his stock was still half-decent and agreed to pay the difference in the wages, which would at least somewhat help the situation, or if they were keeping him on, they should've played him and made him part of the team so that at least they're getting the benefit of him playing even if he was too expensive. Getting stuck paying him the money but not making him available for selection, and all the while reducing his value to other clubs even further, was about the worst possible way to handle the situation.

Like I say, he seems like a **** generally speaking, but I don't think the fact that he wouldn't bail sunderland out of their own mess at great personal expense is what makes him one. They've treated him just as badly as he's treated them to be honest and they just wanted to use him as a scapegoat when they didn't have money to spend. It was Short who decided to completely cut off the money supply and Rodwell was a convenient way to say "If only it wasn't for Rodwell we'd be buying players all over the place" when in actual fact the lack of transfer fees had very little to do with Rodwell.

EDIT Before someone points this out, yes I'm aware that he did leave the club in the end, but I'm talking about it in the context of at the time.
I completely agree with this. Sunderland should have had a relegation clause in his contract and shouldn't have been so silly to give him a 5 year deal on 70k a week initially.

The documentary shows how much money they wasted down the years, awful net spend. No wonder the owners wouldn't invest anymore.
 

Ace

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#65
Absolutely loved it! The camera crew is still around so there might be a season 2 about this season.

Anyone know where I can watch the city one?
 

'O Zio

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#66
Absolutely loved it! The camera crew is still around so there might be a season 2 about this season.

Anyone know where I can watch the city one?
I heard from someone that they're currently filming a second season but can't remember where/who I got that from.

City one is amazon prime isn't it? Or just the usual "completely legit" sources...
 

WalkerboyUK

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#67
I completely agree with this. Sunderland should have had a relegation clause in his contract and shouldn't have been so silly to give him a 5 year deal on 70k a week initially.

The documentary shows how much money they wasted down the years, awful net spend. No wonder the owners wouldn't invest anymore.
Not sure such a clause would have made any difference.
Don't they tend to be a case of "if relegated, we will sell you for £x million" or something along those lines?
The problem is that he was so injury prone that no PL club would touch him, and no Championship side would meet his wage demands, meaning Sunderland were stuck with him regardless.
Besides which, why would Sunderland have even considered relegation a possibility and put a clause in? They'd been a PL side for 6 years before they signed him.
 

Ace

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#68
I heard from someone that they're currently filming a second season but can't remember where/who I got that from.

City one is amazon prime isn't it? Or just the usual "completely legit" sources...
I heard the same. Would love to see a follow up.

Thanks
 

Wig

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#69
Absolutely loved it! The camera crew is still around so there might be a season 2 about this season.

Anyone know where I can watch the city one?
I wonder if Netflix learnt a lesson from the Jack Rodwell contract... that if they're now considering a second season they had a relegation clause that means they pay Sunderland less for the filming rights as they are now a league 1 club?!

Don't know what you guys think, but I'd love to see an equivalent Spurs series by Netflix or Amazon. Be fascinating to watch behind the scenes of the team we love, as we chase the quadruple this season!
 

mike_l

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#70
I wonder if Netflix learnt a lesson from the Jack Rodwell contract... that if they're now considering a second season they had a relegation clause that means they pay Sunderland less for the filming rights as they are now a league 1 club?!

Don't know what you guys think, but I'd love to see an equivalent Spurs series by Netflix or Amazon. Be fascinating to watch behind the scenes of the team we love, as we chase the quadruple this season!
I'd like it but both Levy and Poch seem quite guarded when it comes to information getting out of the club, saying that they did allow Ballague to write his book so maybe I'm wrong.
 

Marty

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#71
Not sure such a clause would have made any difference.
Don't they tend to be a case of "if relegated, we will sell you for £x million" or something along those lines?
The problem is that he was so injury prone that no PL club would touch him, and no Championship side would meet his wage demands, meaning Sunderland were stuck with him regardless.
Besides which, why would Sunderland have even considered relegation a possibility and put a clause in? They'd been a PL side for 6 years before they signed him.
Relegation wage drop clauses are a thing. They could've pushed for a 30% wage drop if they went down. Of course there's no guarantee the player and his representatives would accept such a clause, but it's not uncommon.
 

mattdefoe

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#72
Not sure such a clause would have made any difference.
Don't they tend to be a case of "if relegated, we will sell you for £x million" or something along those lines?
The problem is that he was so injury prone that no PL club would touch him, and no Championship side would meet his wage demands, meaning Sunderland were stuck with him regardless.
Besides which, why would Sunderland have even considered relegation a possibility and put a clause in? They'd been a PL side for 6 years before they signed him.
On the documentary they mentioned relegation clauses where the wages go down if there relegated and Rodwell contract didn’t have that whereas other players did
 

WalkerboyUK

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#73
On the documentary they mentioned relegation clauses where the wages go down if there relegated and Rodwell contract didn’t have that whereas other players did
Yes, but those players were signed in the 18 months before the relegation, when they'd flirted with it and it needed to be a serious consideration. When Rodwell signed they were actually holding their own, hence they wouldn't put that clause in.
 

NinjaTuna

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#74
Just finished it, i thought it was really good and insightful as to all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes at football clubs that you wouldn't even think about usually.

What did you guys think of Martin Bains? I thought he seemed like a nice enough guy but one that thought of it as more of a business than a sport
 

'O Zio

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#75
Just finished it, i thought it was really good and insightful as to all the stuff that goes on behind the scenes at football clubs that you wouldn't even think about usually.

What did you guys think of Martin Bains? I thought he seemed like a nice enough guy but one that thought of it as more of a business than a sport
I think he'd have done a better job if he made a point of crawling out of his own arsehole for half an hour each day.

In his defence the situation was just a complete shit show from all sides so I don't think he's necessarily to blame for what happened, he was just too smug to realise how much trouble they were in until it was already far too late to do anything about, and I don't think he did or said anything to show why he's in the job in the first place to be honest. Obviously the documentary is a bit one-sided against him but he doesn't come out of it looking very good.
 

Gb160

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#76
I heard from someone that they're currently filming a second season but can't remember where/who I got that from.

City one is amazon prime isn't it? Or just the usual "completely legit" sources...
They're definitely filming a 2nd series...their chairman was on TS with Jim Shite talking about it a couple of weeks back.
 

King of Otters

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#77
I think he'd have done a better job if he made a point of crawling out of his own arsehole for half an hour each day.

In his defence the situation was just a complete shit show from all sides so I don't think he's necessarily to blame for what happened, he was just too smug to realise how much trouble they were in until it was already far too late to do anything about, and I don't think he did or said anything to show why he's in the job in the first place to be honest. Obviously the documentary is a bit one-sided against him but he doesn't come out of it looking very good.
Even before you saw him in it, he's the type of person that you could 100% guarantee would drive a massive black Range Rover.
 
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NinjaTuna

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#78
I think he'd have done a better job if he made a point of crawling out of his own arsehole for half an hour each day.

In his defence the situation was just a complete shit show from all sides so I don't think he's necessarily to blame for what happened, he was just too smug to realise how much trouble they were in until it was already far too late to do anything about, and I don't think he did or said anything to show why he's in the job in the first place to be honest. Obviously the documentary is a bit one-sided against him but he doesn't come out of it looking very good.
He looks like your typical corporate dickhead, so my initial perception of him was that he was just some twat. I didn't think his personality was all that bad
 

'O Zio

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#79
He looks like your typical corporate dickhead, so my initial perception of him was that he was just some twat. I didn't think his personality was all that bad
He seemed like a nice enough guy I suppose, like he wasn't really horrible or anyhting, and I did feel for him somewhat because you could almost physically see the stress taking its toll on him as the show went on, but just like you say a corporate dickhead who was far too smug for his own good so it's hard to feel that bad for him.
 

wearetheparklane

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#80
He had one main job in my eyes and that was to get in a new striker after Grabban got the arse and legged it (Colemans fault). The fact he left the club without a senior striker going into the critical second half of the season is a huge reason for why they went down so he has to take the blame for that one (as it was so apparent transfers were primarily his domain).
 
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