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Spurs: more important than England

le_magnifique

New Member
Nov 3, 2004
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Spurs: more important than England
I’ll generally watch any football that’s on and was genuinely annoyed that I missed a Championship game on the BBC last weekend, despite the fact that just three days later I can’t remember who the two teams were. One of them, I think, might have been Swansea City.

Tonight, though, England take on Denmark in an international friendly fixture, and I’ll be elsewhere. Plenty of England fans are committed enough to spend the time and money to travel abroad in midweek to watch what will, it seems, effectively be international equivalent of an experimental Carling Cup team, but I suspect I’ll actually end up doing the hoovering. Honestly. And while I do generally admire the commitment evident in that hard core of away support, I suspect it’ll be a game I’d turn over on the TV.

England are a fairly dour, workmanlike side at the best of times, and the expected pairing of Jack Wilshere and Frank Lampard not only sounds unbalanced and a little too open, but also manages to combine two of the figures who, in all of the modern game, I despise the most. And that’s a real bone of contention: I object to being expected to feel some sort of affinity with a mish-mash of Aston Villa, Manchester City and United players, but all the more so when men like these are in the team.

An example: watching Portugal knock England out of Euro 2004, I was delighted to see a Sol Campbell goal rightly disallowed. I couldn’t take pleasure in football rewarding him, of all people. Minutes later, Helder Postiga, at the time a Tottenham player, jumped highest to head home the winner. I was delighted for Postiga, if still ambivalent towards the eventual result.

You see, I fell in love with football, and, soon after, with Spurs, for the game’s beauty and unending capacity to entertain. No team embodies that thirst for glory, that desire to play the game the right way more than Spurs, I thought, aged eight and inspired by the effervescent Paul Gascoigne.

Since then, though, my allegiance to my beloved Spurs has changed the way I watch football matches: it’s not always a case of “may the best team win”, but which result, if any, would benefit my club. Birmingham’s stodgy, uninspiring draw with Manchester City, then, or Liverpool’s surprise victory over Chelsea, or even Wolves’ win over Manchester United, were things to be happy about, if not beautiful games or ones where fortune smiled on the supposedly “better” team.

On the rare occasions I can be totally neutral, I love to watch a good game. Portugal vs. Argentina, then, or France vs. Brazil would be exciting viewing tonight. But Capello’s England play a stodgy, workmanlike 442 without a natural left winger. I watched them take on Algeria and won’t sit through any more of that.

Here’s the bit that makes me unpopular in pubs on nights like tonight, though. In competitive football, I actually want England to lose. Delighted as I was for Jermain Defoe to score against Slovenia, my dream result would have had JD find the net twice and England be beaten 3-2. The extra rest that Defoe, Aaron Lennon, Peter Crouch and Michael Dawson would have had would, for me, far outweigh the importance of seeing the country progress to the knockout stages.

And, let’s face it, what would that team add to the World Cup? Didn’t everyone want Greece knocked out of Euro 2004 as soon as possible? Having watched almost every game of the Euros that year, I was desperate not to have to suffer them again. It’s the same with England: they’re much too negative to be any fun to watch, and run the risk of injuring or exhausting our players. If it’s better for England to be knocked out early, then so be it, especially when the play-off against Young Boys was so soon after the World Cup.

When it comes down to it, I watch every game as a Spurs fan unless there’s no relevance to us at all. Watching Barcelona crush Real in La Liga, I was a neutral. But had they played each other in the Champions’ League I’d have been willing on Real, just a little, because I’d sooner us face them than Barca.

Manchester United announced today that Nemanja Vidic had been withdrawn to keep him safe for the derby against Manchester City. Vidic’s presence has become all the more important as Rio Ferdinand is injured. Rio’s injury, of course, means that Michael Dawson is all the more likely to start, and we Spurs fans will have to hope that he doesn’t pick up an injury like the last time he played for England. With him, and with Jermain Defoe, for the whole season, who knows where we’d be? It’s safe to say that JD would have scored a Premier League goal by now. He’d just got a hat-trick for England.

If United can pull their players out of friendlies, or, as they often do, encourage them to retire from international football entirely, then I’d much sooner that we did the same. Watching Rafael van der Vaart this season has been an absolute joy, but he hasn’t been fully fit since he’s been here, and how could he have been, having played in the World Cup all the way to the final? His being in and out of the team for fitness reasons can’t have helped. Luka Modric and Gareth Bale, by contrast, have arguably been in the form of their careers having had the summer off.

This week a young Tottenham player became the latest one to be selected to represent his country, a moment that many who follow the game usually describe as “the pinnacle of any player’s career”. If Kyle Walker can add some width and pace and penetration to the England team then they might just be worth watching, and being rated as England’s second-best available right-back is an honour, of course, and one he fully deserves, having played extremely well for QPR and Villa this season. I’m delighted for him to reach a landmark moment in his career. But these days the Champions’ League is probably more demanding.

The fact remains, though, that it’s still only really one man’s opinion: I’d have thought that featuring at right back in the PFA Team of the Season might be more of an honour than getting a game tonight. If Joe Hart can be the Premier League’s best goalkeeper for a whole season and then watch the World Cup from the bench as he did, and then dip in form like he has and find his way in to the team, or if Joey Barton can maintain the form that he has shown all season and not get a look in at all, is it really such a huge honour? He must surely be ahead of Lampard and Wilshere on form, so why does Barton not start? What does Roger Johnson need to do to earn his first cap?

Try as I might, I can’t see this game as important or exciting, but only as safety risk for the players that we have involved. I’d love them to play well and enjoy themselves, but I’d sooner they were having a well-earned night off. In the same way that I'd be delighted to see Arsenal, Manchester City and Chelsea be taken to a replay in the FA Cup, I'm keen for Nasri, Tevez and Terry to be playing every international fixture they can: particularly away games.

Ok, so that's petty. Playing for England, and the focus that players put on it, though, does put Spurs second in some players' minds. Sven Goran Eriksson told an undecided Sol Campbell that his international ambitions would be better served playing for a club who were regularly in the Champions’ League. He also encouraged Jermain Defoe to drop deeper and to curb his poaching instincts a little to benefit the team. Defoe’s all-round game improved, but, at the time, the shape of our team changed ever so slightly due to JD’s desire to show Sven he was more than just a fox in the box. JD still didn’t get picked, and we all know what happened to Campbell. It wasn’t all been down to England, of course, but I’m sure it didn’t help.

At the same time, if Tottenham can benefit from other players’ international ambitions, then all to the good. Darren Bent was quoted as saying he hoped that joining us from Charlton would help him play his way in to the England team, and Jürgen Klinsmann returned to save us from relegation partly because he didn’t dare risk sitting on the bench in a World Cup year. For all that, though, the image of Gary Neville giving Michael Carrick a United shirt with his name on it while on England duty is difficult to take. It’s a rumour, as far as I’m aware, but I’m told that the United players wanted Carrick to join their club, and that Neville had “Carrick” printed on a red shirt and gave it to him. It’s enough on its own for to make me not want our players picked.

I rarely watch England anyway, but, with the risk of injury and of tapping up, and the players’ need for the odd rest, I’d sooner stop international friendlies altogether. Club has to come before country. It’s not like we’d be missing out on a great spectacle.
 

tommo84

Proud to be loud
Aug 15, 2005
6,189
11,227
Decent post, and I agree for the most part.

However I just stick to my old analogy of, 'England's just the mistress, Tottenham are the wife'. I find that seems to say enough about my feelings towards international football.
 

billnick

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2003
1,246
341
Nice post - does anyone know why Dawson was subbed? Tactical, I hope!
 

peter_the_yid

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2003
2,015
353
What I find odd is how you got 8 paragraphs about something
you don't like!
Well we won so you know, Bent and Ashley Young scored...
 

NoFatChicks

Banned
Jan 1, 2011
296
0
Decent post, and I agree for the most part.

However I just stick to my old analogy of, 'England's just the mistress, Tottenham are the wife'. I find that seems to say enough about my feelings towards international football.

Thats one fat ass boring expensive shopaholic X factor watching mistress; and one cool seductive, at times disappointing and frustrating, yet lovely sexy wife...

Why not drop the mistress altogether??

England are the jokers of world football. I've always thought there could be a good team in there, yet that would entail dropping many huge egos and playing a proper team equipped for international football. No Lampard, no Terry, certainly no Barry, should be considered.

As it is, I'm planning on Laying England in the Euros since they're bound to be over-rated yet again. And Cappelo is simply the biggest muppet ever to be in charge (don't anyone start harping about milan and madrid - what he's done since he's been in charge is just comically bad)
 

felmonger

SC Supporter
Sep 10, 2004
207
33
This opinion is becoming more and more common. It is understandable, but personally, I find it sad. Representing your country should be the pinnacle of any sportsmans carreer. But when, week in, week out, we see international players in every position in most Premiership sides, it is not surprising that internationals lose some of their gloss. And when clubs encourage brand loyalty above all, it is hardly surprising that fans are putting club before country. This is made worse by club managers who complain about 'meaningless friendlies' and have players developing mysterious injuries when their country calls.

I would like to see all clubs making an annual declaration on player availability for international duty. Only players from clubs which say that ALL their players would be available for ALL international would be considered by international managers for selection. At least then international managers would have some certainty when selecting their teams, and would have a chance of building a stable squad and a team rather than an ever changing bunch of talented individuals as now.
 

cwhite02

SC Supporter
Sep 28, 2004
1,183
475
We should get back to playing in the home nations, might bring back some passion in a friendly. It might get the fans and the players fired up a bit more? Most of the friendly games now are just PR stunts or just a money making scheme to pay of Wembley.

I get bored with watching England, on the most its the same old players saying the will give everything and looking like they done give a shit. Bring back some passion and it might bring back my interest?
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2003
9,246
11,268
I didn't even know what the score was until driving into work this morning, I show about as much interest in the National team now as what Fabio Capello does.

Until England start performing on the pitch, playing for the privilege of wearing a shirt and get a manager in who gives a hoot I really can't be bothered with them.

Sad state of affairs I know but why should I bother my arse when quite clearly none of them are bothered??
 

ThorntonSpur

every away game is a home game
Jan 21, 2011
2,440
645
i wonder how many fans of other countries feel about thier national teams

I too have started not to be bothered about england. last years world cup did it for me.

i did not know who won until i switched on the radio and my first thought was any sopurs players injured.
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
The highlight for me, when I used to go to Wembley to watch England, was seeing players from other countries, such as Lev Yashin - never to be forgotten. It was always a special occasion.

However, when it comes down to it Spurs are far more important to me than allegiance to any national football team. Even the World Cup has lost its former lustre for me in recent years and I'm quite content to watch international games on TV or on-line. I'm sure I'm not alone in my thinking.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
Its difficult to overlook the fact that the England team is composed of players from clubs which are usually our rivals.

When Spurs players are picked I worry about whether they will get injured or make a mistake.

But if good players on either side are playing then I like to watch them.
Friendlies are different because of the disruptive influence of multiple substitutions on both sides.

There is a certain involvement at big tournaments but since 1966 it is not advisable to get too involved.

I watched most of the World Cup in a local bar in Spain and you couldn't move for flags or sleep for the honking of cars but then they have a successful team playing lovely football.

When we do likewise then perhaps we will get involved again, particularly when Harry is manager.
 

StokeSpur

Banned
Aug 10, 2005
3,053
1
I agree with you on wanting wolves to beat utd and l/pool beating chelsea as it benifits us, i mean that surely goes without sayind, i am sure ever fan of every club thinks like that.

I understand what you saying about england but i cant agree with you.

it should be the proudest moment of a players career when he is called up and selected for his national team and although we all want our players to come back unscathed is it not also fantastic to see Spurs players up against the best the world has to offer, seeing Daws handle world class player and help keep a clean sheet, watching defoe unlock a world class defence, these things are enjoying and are as important as anything else in the game. They will learn more from playing those games than being sat at home playing on the ps3 while others turn up and play in the world cup q's etc.

While it is unfortunate that a player gets an injury on international duty it aslo opens a door for a youngster maybe to get his chance back at the club to show the manager that he's ready to step up etc.

Look at the players who got a chance through injury and go on to do their club proud, Lennon for one, Bassong and Daws last season, they were brilliant, that was down to Ledders injury, had he not been injured for that long Bassong wouldnt have got that chance, anyway that record of conceeding 2 in 12 (or whatever it was) when those pair were first choise cb's is all but forgotten now.

I think just the thought 'i am an england player' can do wonders for him, confidence, belief etc, its all good.

We all know what Fergie does but nobody likes it, he's scotish and dosnt give a crap about england, infact he dosnt give a crap about anything but himself and whats good for him, it would be interesting to see how many scotish players he would hold back from their international team, i suspect 0. i am glad were not like that, i am glad we release our lads to go play against the best players around the world.

i think this club before country attitude is rife and its a real shame.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,231
83,200
The question for me isn't club v country but competitive games v non-competitive games.

PLaying for your country at a major tournament truly is the piunnacle of a footbalelr's career imo. Making an appearance in a friendly on a night when 8 half-talented youngsters also got a game is hardly a privilege.

Playing in a world cup final is a bigger honour than playing in a CL final.

The international stage is still important but friendlies are losing their meaning. especiall since we've started "trying out" players who blatantly aren't good enough to play for their country.
 
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