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Some thoughts on Jermain Defoe

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
I like Jermain Defoe; always have. When we first signed him, I was pleased that we had signed a raw goalscorer. He was fast, he could shoot, and he knew where the goal was. Sure, he had his faults, but who doesn't? Here was a young player with the potential to be great.

I was disappointed when he left, but I understood it. Keane and Berbatov were the first choice, and Jermain needed to play. I was pleased when he came back; we needed his goals, and he didn't disappoint. But over the years my enthusiasm for him has waned, and turned to disappontment and frustration.

He has worked on his game. He is offside far less than he used to be. He has worked on his strength and is now far more able to hold the ball in a chellenge. His running in the channels is much improved, and he can play a teammate in (for example, Bale at home to the Goons last season). But he has failed to develop the most important part of his game: his goalscoring.

Sadly, Jermain Defoe is limited forward. He has two ways that he scores: the 'shift-and-shoot' (right foot only) and running the right channel off the left shoulder of the last defender. This would be fine if he offered another type of threat; the fact that he doesn't means that it is relatively easy for defenders to stop him. It isn't a coincidence that, prior to Wolves, he had the most shots without scoring of any player. Defenders 'stand' on his right foot and block the shot. Wolves was encouraging because he placed his two scoring shots rather than hitting the ball as hard as he could to the middle of the goal. I hope it is the sign of a greater maturity, but I'm not banking on it.

My main gripe with him is his almost total lack of movement in the box. When the ball is wide, he takes up a position in the general vicinity of the penalty spot and stays there. His next move is to react to the ball in or to any deflection, when it should be to make a run or to find space. His lack of mobility means that he hardly ever gets on the end of balls played in from wide areas, and he also takes up space that could be exploited by a late run from outside the box. This, I am sure, is the reason why Bale and Lennon switch wings. There is, when we play VdV and Defoe, simply no point in either winger beating their man and putting in a cross, as there is nobody there to exploit it. Better to have them on the 'wrong' side so they can cut in and make something happen from a central position. The problem with this, of course, is that the opposition (such as West Ham did) simply have to congest the centre and crowd us out, restricting us to long-range efforts.

There was an exception against West Ham. In the first half, he left his marker on the back (right) post and made a run in front of the other centre back, reaching the ball in (I think from Bale) and putting it just wide of the far (right) post. He hit it with his right when his left would have been more appropriate, but you can't have everything. 'Great' I thought, 'the coaching staff have worked on this and we're going to see some movement from our boy'. But it was a one-off. There was an example in the second half where he ran the left channel and didn't get the ball, then made another good run across the edge of the box. Again he was ignored, and the ball went left. 'Now is the time' I thought, waiting for him to run from behind his marker into space in the middle of the goal to meet the ball in. But he didn't. For the umpteenth time, he simply watched when he should have been moving, anticipating play, gambling on the cross.

This is hurting us. If you play VdV plus one striker, then that striker has to be a goal threat. VdV, contrary to some opinion, isn't a forward and doesn't play like one. He drops very deep and his game in the box is playing off a front man. Like (for you old-'uns) Martin Peters, and a host of others since, he uses space by timing his runs and getting into positions where defenders don't expect him. If we play one striker, that striker has to be effective in all aspects of penalty box play, not just hanging around waiting for something to happen. This not only renders him ineffective, but also limits the opportunities for his teammates.

So we have to change. We simply cannot play Jermain Defoe as our only striker and expect to win games. It makes us toothless up front and predictable in approach. There are two answers to this if Defoe does not change his game. Either play VdV with either Pav or Crouch (my preference would be Pav) or play two strikers and leave VdV on the bench.

If we're going to finish in the top four again, we need to win games. To do that we need goals. We aren't going to get them with Defoe as our lone striker.
 

shao

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2003
417
523
Wow, you thought about that. The team lost today but it was because the strikers didn't do their job. This is not a snap judgement but if we are going to go up a level then the main area that needs it is goalscorer. Should have stumped up the over the odds fee to get our man in Jan. Hope the summer is fruitful.
 

PhilosoSPUR

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2009
932
596
Thanks for the article. I had a similar thought, which is we have to think about pairings. Either Crouch+Defoe or vdV+Pav would be one way to go.
 

wooderz

James and SC Striker
May 18, 2006
8,766
4,507
Wow, you thought about that. The team lost today but it was because the strikers didn't do their job. This is not a snap judgement but if we are going to go up a level then the main area that needs it is goalscorer. Should have stumped up the over the odds fee to get our man in Jan. Hope the summer is fruitful.

I know by the way the Spammer fans celebrated their 0-0 win today, it was in fact, a draw
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
I haven't been sure of Defoe for some time. I sympathise that he had just lost his grandfather, but then don't understand why HR played him knowing that he hadn't slept. And he wore a frigging T-shirt with a 100 on it. I'm not sure JD is ever going to be true team player. I don't know if HR is frustrated with Pav's lack of English, but then Tevez isn't exactly fluent either.
 

rupsmith

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2006
1,714
2,328
I dont know - while in theory the VDV/Defoe partnership does sound good - it will require good hold up play, neat lay offs and rapid movement into space for it to be effective. When Defoe is given time and space (i.e. against weaker teams) it can probably work but the problem is that as we as a team become more successful the tighter the marking and more defensive as a team the opponent become.

I dont believe Defoe has grown to cope with that - I think that he has struggled since the beginning of last year which is also about when teams had begun to take us very very seriously.

Defoe, in my view, is a good (perhaps even very good) mid -table striker but doesnt have enough of an all round game to lead our striking line. Poor in the air, poor hold up play, not enough intelligence when moving off the ball, poor first touch - (poor relative to top four standard) - and at the age of 28 mean that for me he has outlived his usefullness.

I would love for him to prove me wrong and start banging in the goals but I havent seen anything that suggests he can do that
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
Watching MOTD yesterday I could not help but get the feeling a lot of so called mid table strikers have left JD behind .

If he left us where would he go ? I don't think he would be any use for a team fighting to stay up . The Championship would be too physical for him .

Maybe the Dutch league or even the French for a couple of years before moving to Bahrain .
 

Jenko

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
5,297
4,185
hes certainly not going to keep us at our current level, needs to be replaced. Sorry JD.
 

Azrael

Banned
May 23, 2004
9,377
14
Personally I have never rated him. During his first spell he would always hear that the reason he was always hot and cold was that he wasn't getting enough games and needed to have a few starts to get his scoring boots. Well, he returned and replaced Keane as the auto-starter and still he's hot and a lot colder.

Since Harry will keep starting him I think he has until the end of the season to convince us that he can cut it. If he can't then Harry has to do what he doesn't want to do and let him go.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
34,231
83,199
Really good article, I agree with everything other than playing Defoe up front with Crouch. We are battling for a top four spot and you won't get that consistently with those two up front. For where we are right now Defoe has to be a sub. With twenty minutes to go I can see him causing teams problems but starting he is so easy to mark out of the game it is unreal.

Right now we could continue like we are and put Pav up front or we could put Crouch up top and get Bale and Lennon to play more like inside left and right rather than wingers.
 

michaelden

Knight of the Fat Fanny
Aug 13, 2004
26,418
21,764
Remember back 4 months, people going "Defoe will be our saviour". I said he's not along with others and we're proven right.

Defoe is limited, as is Crouch who only seems effective in the CL. Harry needs to swallow his pride and play Pav as our ST if we are to make top 4
 

Bagga Boom

Member
Mar 4, 2007
337
24
Remember back 4 months, people going "Defoe will be our saviour". I said he's not along with others and we're proven right.

Defoe is limited, as is Crouch who only seems effective in the CL. Harry needs to swallow his pride and play Pav as our ST if we are to make top 4

Totally agree about Defoe, very, very limited...... starting to think he is a bit like "Walcott", (Run Forest Run). Niether of them have a good football brain, once sussed out by the opposition, they don't have a Plan "B" "C" or "D" ~ consequently becoming ineffective for the Team.
And as for Crouch, never been a fan, but (apart from this season!), he does score goals, don't ask me how, but he does :shrug:

When I see him in on a one on one with a keeper or good position on goal with just the last defender to beat it's like watching Bentdner for da Arse, like them I just cringe knowing he's gonna fcuk it up. But was pleasantly supprised when he put away Lennons pass at the "San Siro" :hump:

There's no power in his headers or shots, no strength in his body, (Is there NO weight room at the training complex, Protein shakes or summit?). Hold up play is very suspect, no pace & if it wasn't for VDV intelligent football his knock downs are normally fruitless.. :bang:

Although this may sound like a rant, I assure you it's not, maybe a little hung-over from watching yesterdays match ~ but no rant, just agreeing with some and stating the obvious :oops:

No-one would be more pleased than me, for them both to prove me wrong, until then Pav needs to start for the rest of season after yesterday's little cameo, he at least looked like he might score, but lets not get into the "Should Pav Start" debate coz that's been beaten to death...

Anyway onward into the CL ~ looking forward to the QF's

C.O.Y.S :beer:
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
So we have to change. We simply cannot play Jermain Defoe as our only striker and expect to win games. It makes us toothless up front and predictable in approach. There are two answers to this if Defoe does not change his game. Either play VdV with either Pav or Crouch (my preference would be Pav) or play two strikers and leave VdV on the bench.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
 

mikespurs

New Member
Nov 10, 2010
125
0
Defoe is a good striker, not a top four striker but definitely a top half of the table striker.

The problem is that he simply cannot play upfront on his own. With the players we have we are clearly suited to a 4-5-1 formation. I believe we actually have the best midfield in the Premiership with Lennon Modric Sandro/Hudd Van der Vaart and Bale.

We just don't have a striker capable of leading the line on his own. Crouch does it well in Europe, Pav sometimes does it well at home. Defoe just can't play in that role. We get the ball wide, theres nobody to cross it to because Defoe won't win a header.

Even if he isn't a goal scorer out teams shape is so much better with Crouch. When Crouch plays van der Vaart plays far further up the pitch where we need him.

We have to play Crouch or Pav if we want to finish 4th.
 

pistolP

Well-Known Member
Aug 1, 2003
3,015
714
Watching MOTD yesterday I could not help but get the feeling a lot of so called mid table strikers have left JD behind .

If he left us where would he go ? I don't think he would be any use for a team fighting to stay up . The Championship would be too physical for him .

Maybe the Dutch league or even the French for a couple of years before moving to Bahrain .

Striebs, you are a very wicked man. :grin:
 

Bingy

Active Member
May 26, 2004
1,991
22
Defoe or not Defoe

Defoe is nowhere near where we need from our strikers....grandparent or no grandparent. He singlehandedly cost us 3 points...and it is Harry to whom we should direct ALL complaints....another flaw in his management frailties?
When Pav came on...we looked much better, BUT too little too late...THANKS Harry. Wesy Ham were made to look like Top 6, when in fact they are bottom 4. Chelsea's demolitrion of Man City had thrown us somewhat of a lifeline....but it is quickly being redrawn, as we speak/write....so it is probably too late (given that we WILL drop more points to lower opposition....before we have finished our season? :bang:. I regret that I must lay FULL blkame at Harry's door, even with a plum tie brewing, against Real Madrid (with or without pretty Diver himself). The fact remains that the Real tie has no bearing on what we can expect in Qualification for next years competition (apart from 'taking our eye' off the goal of qualifying?). West Ham made Harry look poor.....but maye they have shown us where we should be, in reality? I hate to sound negative....but what else are we to assume from the mistakes and niavities that we have witnessed in the last few months, in both CL and EPL? COYS!:shrug:
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
West Ham made Harry look poor

I think Defoe made the score look ever so better from a West Ham point of view. The top four all have killer forwards who would have filled their boots given the chances that Defoe had. Thats the difference between the top four and us. Simple as.
 

Kingstheman

No longer BSoDL
Mar 13, 2006
5,831
2,991
We have two wingers and therefore will need a striker with a bit of movement and height/power. That will never be Defoe.

Tottenham rarely threaten from set pieces. Defoe will never help there, he is just no threat. We have to rely on Dawson or Kaboul.

We have been missing Huddlestone and I wonder how this impacts upon our strikers.

If I were a defender, I would love to be playing against Defoe - why? Because I know that he is no threat in the air. It limits what I have to concentrate on. He may have pace (which will decline due to age and injury) and some trickery, but I know I can focus entirely on these and will not have to worry when a corner comes in, when a long ball in the air comes in, when a long throw or cross from a free kick comes in, when Bale or Lennon create a chance, I need to only block the path of the ball to Defoe on the ground and I am playing the percentages.

Defoe will not dominate me, he is too small and weak. With no alternative striker to worry about in a 4-5-1, the job is much easier. Sure, Tottenham can have 63% possession and the defence and midfield play really well, but if we keep it tight, a player with such obvious limitations as Defoe can become a problem for his own team.


Now that is over, I feel free to say - we must be confident that we can beat teams by playing with 4 mid fielders. Lets have two different strikers playing, giving the team options - height and pace. Power and skill. A player running channels and a player giving a defender a physical challenge. An inside forward with creativity and a line leading number 9. Whatever it is, lets have options and goals and if we concede a bit of possession, so be it, the defence will have to absorb more flak.

If I took Keane, I could write something similar to the above by mentioning lack of pace and playing too deep, forgetting his role as a striker.

If I wrote something like the above about Crouch, I could try to highlight a little bit of weakness for the big man, the tendency to give away a few too many fouls in a 1 on 1 physical challenge (often through inept refereeing) and perhaps a lack of quick feet that both Keane and Defoe have both had.

Pavyluchenko? Has skill, yes, but his application and dedication must be questioned (the reasons for this are another story).

We need a rethink up front. In the Summer, we need two strikers. One who has power and presence. One who has skill and technique or good game awareness. Neither should be slow. Neither should have control issues. Tall order? You bet, but these guys should be identified.

Much as it will cause debate here, our 4 strikers are Keane, Defoe, Crouch and Pavyluchenko, we will have to sell Keane and Pavyluchenko in the Summer. Then Defoe within a year following. Perhaps Defoe and Keane will be interchangeable in this, but both must go.

The Russian will go because it is clear that he is not part of Redknapp's plans and because he now wants to leave. His attitude and lack of application (reasons for in another forum, please) are not compensated for by a few moments of skill and are not acceptable for a team looking to do well in the league.

Keane will go as he is ageing, he acted irresponsibly with a Christmas party (for which I believe he has not been forgiven by Redknapp), he drops into midfield too much and his work ethic, although admirable, will not compensate for his decline in ability and goal scoring.

Defoe will go because he lacks height and power (making him redundant at set pieces and for long balls, not the 'Tottenham way', but I am really frustrated by our lack of set piece threat, what is the point /reward of a set piece, if your team is ill equipped to take advantage of them?) and will lose his pace with age and injury, taking away his advantages.

Crouch will remain for the longest, in my opinion. Although not perfect, at least he has been involved in scoring goals and in assisting with goals. He has height (although lacks power for his height) and that will be his saving grace under Redknapp, as with two wingers, he will be our only option as a goal threat.

Although, I still wonder, if Huddlestone were there and passing as well as he can.... would Defoe be profiting by running the channels...?


Hmmmm.... I am sure many will disagree with my sentiments, but I ask you this - as a defender who would you worry about when playing against Tottenham? Keane? Defoe? Crouch? Pavyluchenko?

I would say Couch is the one they worry about most.


Disclaimer - I know Keane is on loan, but he is still our player.
 
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