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So White Hart Lane it is then.

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
So White Hart Lane it is then. Levy has still got his foot jammed in the door that has just been firmly closed like the salesman that he is, and will no doubt go down the litigation, Judicial Review route just to save his face but the game is over. Stuffing another couple of million down the throats of barristers, the only group that make bankers look poor will do nothing to salvage our pride.

We tried a smash and grab and were thwarted. In a move worthy of Al Capone we attempted a takeover of the West Ham rackets and were slapped down. 'Well why not' some of you may ask, 'they'd been run over by a bus and their wallet was lying there.

How long before the NPD becomes 'currently' viable again we will have to see. Until the blush fades from Levy's face probably. A year? Two years? Sometime? Never? There will be recriminations and tears, blood may be spilled. Spurs may be sold on. Who knows.

But this morning I feel used. We were sold a false prospectus. I loyally sent the e-mails and signed the petitions; gasped at the architects' projections; dutifully followed the twist and turns of the planning application; celebrated when we triumphed. Was it all just a few weeks ago?

But suddenly it's not viable, dead in the water, perhaps it always was, but I bought into it. The history, the tradition. 'We are Tottenham from Tottenham '.Then a cheaper opportunity arose. Not in Tottenham exactly but near enough. In West Ham's territory but who cares about them, they're going down anyway? Might as well hold their heads under the water and make sure.

There will be anti Semitic undertones to the aftermath.. We are 'Yiddoes'; cocky; on the rise, at the moment; nobody likes us but we don't care. We're in the Champions' League, anything goes' It's all about the money.

The King's new clothes are revealed for what they are: a mirage conjured up by the the Levy acolytes. But we got swept along in the tide of those that know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. And just as in the Hans Christian Anderson tale in 'The Little Mermaid' where the Emperor was deluded into thinking that his invisible garments were the latest fashion, he is revealed as naked after all.

Look at the skating rink; the public concourse, think of the naming rights, the income flow from 55/60,000 seats. Is it right? Is it fair? Is it just? Is it the proper way to conduct ourselves? Do we have no standards or dignity? It's only business after all.Anything goes.

The fact that we are a wealthy club and getting richer, that we have a ground nearly as big as Man.City and Chelsea; that we have planning permission for a new complex on our own doorstep apparently counts for nothing. Tottenham High Road may be a dump but it's our dump and perhaps we should address the problem in proper partnership with Harringey now.

We might just come round to this view now that we have no alternative other than to delay the inevitable for as long as possible to save face. The new financial rules that were supposed to protect us from the ravages of multi billionaires are going to make it harder apparently. Poor plucky little Tottenham condemned to mid table mediocrity for the foreseeable future until eventually the rational take back the asylum from the financial idiots. And just as we were about to inherit the earth.

I take no satisfaction in correctly predicting that we wouldn't get it. The whole episode has made me feel shoddy and has bought shame on the club. There's only one thing worse than trying to mug an old man in the street and that's trying to mug an old man in the street and finding ourselves flat on our backs in the gutter when he turns out to be a Black Belt Karate Master.

This view won't be popular; it will finally prove that I have no ambition, that I'm lost in the past, living on memories of the Glory Glory days. But then I'm a 'Yiddo' and I don't care either. But I hope it strikes a chord in the consciences of some Tottenham fans. We need to conduct ourselves properly on and off the pitch.

Don't get me wrong, West Ham taking over the OS is doomed to failure, probably a slow lingering death, hastened by their probable relegation. But once the words 'legacy' and 'vandalism' started to appear the Tottenham raid was doomed to failure. No public body could support it. The fact that the opposition case was a tissue of half truths and that our business plan was coherent is irrelevant in the Heritage stakes.

Stand by then for the Hackney Marshes Development Project. Or the 'Move to Wembley Consortium', I mean its not far really. Or the 'Ground Share with West Ham Proposition' They're not so bad when you get to know them. Resist all such temptations.

Meanwhile we could just make the Top Four again or even win the Champions' League. In other words fans it's all about the football and in that area we are not doing too badly. It will all stew for a year and then I hope the NPD will emerge viable and blinking in the dawn of a new day. Hopefully only West Ham will remember our darkest hour since the sacking of Martin Jol but I doubt it.
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
I agree with you. This whole process has damaged our pride and our reputation and that really hurts.

I have never wanted anything but the Tottenham plan to go ahead and if we need backing and get no help from Haringey, there are other huge consortiums and companies out there who would very likely be willing to step in - AEG might even do that even if the Stratford option is out of the picture, because we are a valid business prospect now. Haringey could have been included in any future profits so they will lose out in the long run which is a pity for the run-down place that N17 is nowadays.

Of course I am proud of our past glories, but I fully accept that we need to move on and grow to compete at the highest level, where we truly belong.

Stratford was never the solution. There will be another and better one.
 

Oscar2

Active Member
Jul 26, 2004
174
49
I hear exactly what you are saying but tend to disagree on some aspects. We are all more than aware that we need a bigger stadium. To say the we were used and sold a false prospectus is a tad over the top. Levy had to do what was right to get us into a financial position so we can compete on the pitch year in year out. None of us know what actually went on or is currently going on with the NDP behind the scenes. To compare what we did with our bid to like mugging an old man makes for good reading if it was a novel. Our Chairman saw an alternative and a cheaper one at that and decided to make a move. Thats what businessmen do and that is what football is all about now, business. All this we are Tottenham from Tottenham would have gone out the window if we got the OS, that I can guarantee you. The facts are we didnt but we will find an alternative.

The bottom line is that our club should not embarrassed at what happened. If sentiment and legacy took a back seat from the decision process then we would have won. Every dog on the street knows that.

I have no doubt that DL has a back up plan. In the interim lets make sure we can push our team on to achieving top 4 because after all thats whats its all about.
 

vicbob

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2008
2,401
5,104
Blimey man cheer up!
I'm sure if Levy had bent over backwards and agreed to keep the running track and sucked up to Seb Coe we might have got it, instead he stuck to his principles, would not accept anything other than a first class football stadium and we didn't. All this demolishing national monuments and legacy crap is just ill informed propaganda.As usual this country cocked up and never thought long term, and if West Ham and the dildo brothers are willing to accept a substandard football stadium at any cost then they can have it.
Yes we haven't exactly come out of this looking great, but we did offer the best bid for a long term viable stadium on that site, and in my view thats more important than an under used running track in a half empty stadium.
Who can blame Levy for being oportunist, its his job to get the best for this club and due to economic reasons the OS offered the best oportunity to take this great club forward, and if that upset a few politicians and ex athletes along the way then tough.
In Levy i trust, and i hope he stays and not uses this as a reason to sell up.
 

doom

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2003
2,368
1,338
the damage was done with newspaper headlines about Spurs bulldozing the Olympics stadium. The tiny protest group didn't help, every newspaper article stated that Spurs fans did not want the move, whilst quoting Spammers who wanted the move... as we know it was quite the opposite. We had opinion polls of what Londoner's thought conducted before anything was known of our bid.. we were fighting a losing battle.

We'll see what happens on friday though!
 

will8587

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2006
1,342
419
Levy is a businessman first and foremost. It's an excellent quality to have in a Chairman. We've continually produced a profit and are fiscally responsible with our wages. He's the ultimate hard-bargainer, never willing to accept anything but the best deal possible, even if that means drawing negotiations out for a week longer to save half a million pounds.

Levy, however, is not a footballer. He's an outsider to the unwritten rules of the game. He doesn't understand the complexities and subtleties of courting a player. Several Spanish chairmen have spoken out against Levy's my-way-or-the-highway tactics. Sometimes it works and you get Rafael Van der Vaart for £8m, but most of the time you get a angry chairman, offended by Levy's low-ball offer, and a striker who wasn't aware of Tottenham's interest until 5 hours before the transfer deadline.

This attitude extends to the Olympic Stadium. It was always out there as an option, but as soon as Levy's patience ran out with the Harringey Council, he attempted another last minute coup. Meanwhile, West Ham had spent much more time courting and currying favor with the Olympic Committee, making concessions and building trust. Spurs charged in, insulted everyone involved by saying West Ham's plans, which were negotiated by exactly those people who were voting on the plan, were stupid and unsustainable, and submitted a more financially sound plan. That might work in business, where profits reign supreme, but this was never about business. It was always about egos and legacy. Levy's approaches were doomed from the start.

Hopefully, he'll come away from this with the realization that it's much more about give-and-take. Success isn't always predicated on getting the best deal.
 

2bearis2do

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2006
3,820
2,317
A nice read Jimmy.
It's all been rather exhausting has it not. That passionate desire to move forward, to grasp the moment, to become the club we want to be - may have just hoodwinked the majority of us. Me included.
But I do believe in the great scheme of things - Que Sera Sera - we have very little influence on any of the outcomes and the best we can do is to turn up and scream and shout for the team, the badge and the lillywhite shirt.
 

CosmicHotspur

Better a wag than a WAG
Aug 14, 2006
51,069
22,383
I have a feeling that Levy is a good poker player. There may yet be alternatives to WHL...
 

SimonSpur

Member
Feb 11, 2004
179
4
JimmyG2, thanks a lot for a fantastic article. That was an excellent read.

It will be interesting to see what Levy says in the aftermath of the announcement. Not just immediately following the decision, but months down the line too.

Will the NPD suddenly become viable again? Will we be making eyes at Wembley as a short-term answer? Maybe a shiny new stadium with a bowling alley and a dog hydrotherapy centre will emerge in Milton Keynes and some Spurs fans will tell us they don't care where we are so long as we get a 60,000+ stadium.

Whatever happens off the pitch -- and it's clear from Deloitte's money list that we are still generating a lot of revenue (and the 2011 list is based on the 2009/10 no-European campaign season) -- it's on the pitch that we can still aim for success this season and onwards. There's a Champions League quarter final to aim for - and another top four finish to secure.

COYS!
 

le_magnifique

New Member
Nov 3, 2004
266
0
I hear what you're saying, Jimmy, and you've written a good well structured post. I enjoyed reading it. I'm not feeling as morose as you, though.

I didn't want to move to Stratford, and am pleased that it looks like we'll be staying put. However, I'm not happy at having West Ham chosen ahead of us.

I've had quite a long chat with some Spammers and neutrals about this over lunch, and they all thought that it was bizarre that Spurs would:

a. knock down the stadium
b. not have a track

In my view, having read what both clubs and all the athletics bods had to say, I thought that ours was the best bid, and that it made sense to do exactly what the club had planned.

I genuinely think that the Olympic bods have made the wrong decision here, but I'm happy that they have.

And if everyone outside of the club and fanbase doesn't like what we've done, I honestly don't care a hoot.
 

JuanRebelde

Member
Apr 10, 2006
978
2
So if the post is to be believed, we have tarnished our reputation by:
  1. Offering a sound, economic plan to save Londoners years of additional tax burden.
  2. Build two outstanding state of the art and viable stadia,
  3. Bring jobs to three areas of London
  4. Local investment in a number of boroughs and sports.
  5. Additional sustainable tourism, from a very short move to another borough of London
  6. Needing no public money or loans from councils who generally are pleading poverty and making severe cut-backs in all services.
  7. Having the honesty to say the running track is not viable whereas we know the Spam will do this in a few years time.
Whereas the winners plan means:
  1. A running track will be preserved that was used for two weeks in the rain during the summer in 2012.
  2. Part of a stadium too large for the new tennants or athletics will survive.
  3. The spam football club needs public money to even bid.
  4. The Athletics legacy will be for a maximum of 20 days in any one year.
  5. The stadium will be a legacy as the worst atmosphere in the league the spam play in. I have experienced several desolate match days at Montjuic olympic stadium in Barcelona with larger crowds than the Spam will ever get they'll and the running track just makes it worse.
  6. The usual collection of backward looking fans (in the name of 'tradition' of course), gutless politicians and talentless committee men have won out.
  7. The Spam plans are financially optimistic at best but probably disasterous as they stand.
If this is how things are done now in the UK, you really are in trouble and a real opportunity has probably been missed.
 

SPURS_F@N

Banned
Jan 31, 2011
332
0
Good read.

I think it's slightly premature.

It's clear that most people see our bid as the most logical solution.

West hams bid seems to have won in terms of being recommended by the OPLC, but will the 14 strong panel of varying business people and government see it the same way? If they see sense couldn't they overturn OPLC?

Wouldn't surprise me if they disregard West hams bid as they can't deliver and niether get it. On the plus side, if west hams bid goes ahead it will kill 'em. Unfortunately the porn brothers will prosper nicely though.
 

brasil_spur

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2006
12,669
16,713
I also don't think that it is a foregone conclusion on West Ham yet. As far as i can see the only thing that was better in their proposal from an OPLC perspective was the running track. The rest of it i think we won out on. Also AEG has had a lot of success with turning round the governments last big white elephant (the dome).

That's before you even talk about wheter West Ham, who could very soon be a Championsip team, are even close to being financially sound. Presumabely they don't have the money for this and haven't secured any borrowing as yet.

If it was me i would want whoever wins the bid to have secured the funding for the development beforehand. Otherwise it could easily go tits up.

But then this is the government we are talking about and no doubt they will chose the wrong option, which is West Ham.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2005
16,047
18,013
If an athletic track in a football stadium was a proven, viable idea then i am sure that Man Ure, Chel$ea and the Emirates would have one.

We are now back in our original position of not having sufficient income to match the top five of Man Ure, Man City, Chel$ea and Arsnic through the gate. Levy was tasked to get the club a bigger stadium to help compete, and he has failed to do so. As Chairman during the last transfer window he was tasked by the Manager to improve our striking options but he has failed to do so.

So much for your "good old Danny Boy" admirers on here.
 

vicbob

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2008
2,401
5,104
If an athletic track in a football stadium was a proven, viable idea then i am sure that Man Ure, Chel$ea and the Emirates would have one.

We are now back in our original position of not having sufficient income to match the top five of Man Ure, Man City, Chel$ea and Arsnic through the gate. Levy was tasked to get the club a bigger stadium to help compete, and he has failed to do so. As Chairman during the last transfer window he was tasked by the Manager to improve our striking options but he has failed to do so.

So much for your "good old Danny Boy" admirers on here.

I think there has been alot on here which makes the case that it was the other way round, but thats a different argument that has been covered many times since the 31st Jan.

Large areas, suitable for development of a 60,000 stadium, are not very common in London (particularly North London), so its not like there are lots of options to choose from, even a mega rich billionaire owner could not "magic" a new stadium out of nowhere. Cut the guy some slack, and judge him on what he eventually achieves for the club.
 

Deeyal

Active Member
Jun 2, 2004
270
144
As with many things in life it appears that ignorance reigns supreme. Anything deemed as slightly controversial, people have a tendency to shy away from, and sadly in our case it was the spurs bid. After looking at our plan in more detail, and hearing Levy's argument, I am convinced it was the most sensible solution, but West Hams bid just smacks of pandering to the irgnorant who cant see beyond the end of their noses. It was not helped by the hufe amount of misinformation put about by various camps with their own agendas.
 

gusrowe

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2005
836
809
I think this annoucement is a little premature and the matter is not done and dusted just yet.
 

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Jun 13, 2006
1,560
1,591
So if the post is to be believed, we have tarnished our reputation by:
  1. Offering a sound, economic plan to save Londoners years of additional tax burden.
  2. Build two outstanding state of the art and viable stadia,
  3. Bring jobs to three areas of London
  4. Local investment in a number of boroughs and sports.
  5. Additional sustainable tourism, from a very short move to another borough of London
  6. Needing no public money or loans from councils who generally are pleading poverty and making severe cut-backs in all services.
  7. Having the honesty to say the running track is not viable whereas we know the Spam will do this in a few years time.
Whereas the winners plan means:
  1. A running track will be preserved that was used for two weeks in the rain during the summer in 2012.
  2. Part of a stadium too large for the new tennants or athletics will survive.
  3. The spam football club needs public money to even bid.
  4. The Athletics legacy will be for a maximum of 20 days in any one year.
  5. The stadium will be a legacy as the worst atmosphere in the league the spam play in. I have experienced several desolate match days at Montjuic olympic stadium in Barcelona with larger crowds than the Spam will ever get they'll and the running track just makes it worse.
  6. The usual collection of backward looking fans (in the name of 'tradition' of course), gutless politicians and talentless committee men have won out.
  7. The Spam plans are financially optimistic at best but probably disasterous as they stand.
If this is how things are done now in the UK, you really are in trouble and a real opportunity has probably been missed.

I agree with this summary. What we've had today is a leak from within the committee, suggesting that they favour the West Ham Bid.

But who on this committee would have to pick up the bills in 5 or 10 years time when WHU default on their loan, or decide that the running track does have to be ripped up after all, or that the Stadium needs major new investment if it's to host the 2022 World Student Games or whatever else is planned? The government gave the OPLC the job of getting it off the hook once the Games are over and the WHU bid will leave them dangling.

Some members have been grandstanding for the benefit of their supporters in the athletics lobby but, ultimately, they will have to demonstrate that the West Ham bid ticks all the boxes. Whichever way you look at it, West Ham can't promise the cash and have offered no guarantees for the public loans that they require.

As always, the devil's in the detail...
 
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