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Match Ratings Ratings vs Manu

MOTM

  • Vorm

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • Verts

    Votes: 43 20.4%
  • Davies

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 42 19.9%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • Dele

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 80 37.9%
  • Son

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Kane

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Moura

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wanyama

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 23 10.9%

  • Total voters
    211

OPModric

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2010
1,100
2,448
Poch: 0
- for playing Kane when obviously not fit and team showing they are great without him in the turnaround against Bournemouth and wins Swansea and Chelsea.

- for playing Alli as a playmaker last ten minutes when doing the last push. Alli had about half of the tempo of Sissoko in his midfield game.

Until Poch can drop an underperforming Alli and Kane we never will go all the way.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
6,863
12,282
Herrera is a great example of this. Barely been in the team in the league this season, picked, turns in a match winning performance of goal and shithousery, clearly prescribed by Jose.

Ali Gold was making a big deal of correctly selecting our ‘surprise’ starting 11 but it was not even remotely surprising and the most obvious 11. We don’t really do surprises, we turn up with the expected 11 and usualLy the quality wins out
It’s typical of Spurs that they can make someone as shit as Herrara look half decent. I expect we’ll let Troy Deaney have a worldie next Monday..
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Quite but these “Man Utd have spent 500m” defences sound like excuses when in the next breath Kane is a 200m striker, Alli is 100m etc etc. If someone wanted to buy our starting 11, it would cost more than Utd’s

I think you're missing the point somewhat about how much we can pay. Utd can pay Sanchez, a bonfide winner £400k a week, We're struggling to get anywhere near £200k, that's the difference right there not the respective values. Pretty sure if we had Utd's resources Walker would still be here and Tobg wouldn't be heading for the exit door...hell pretty sure we would have won something by now if that's were the case but it's not anf it will always be a financial constraint in comparison to these clubs.
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
9,023
13,524
I think you're missing the point somewhat about how much we can pay. Utd can pay Sanchez, a bonfide winner £400k a week, We're struggling to get anywhere near £200k, that's the difference right there not the respective values. Pretty sure if we had Utd's resources Walker would still be here and Tobg wouldn't be heading for the exit door...hell pretty sure we would have won something by now if that's the case.

Think you’re missing my point fella. I fully understand our wage predicament

The first fan complaint against city or Utd is often “but they spent 500m on players”. (We’re not including wages here)

My point is if our players are worth as much as we say, you literally couldn’t afford our first team. Sure, we accumulated them cannily, and on a shoestring, but while Kane was free, he’s not worth nothing now, right? He’s England captain for one.

So at what point do we/the world stop judging this team on how much it cost (peanuts really) and judge it on how much it’s worth now (one of the most expensive starting 11s on paper in Europe).

Wages are irrelevant in this as they’re already here. Sure, Kane will be on 300k a week when he leaves but right now he’s considered a 200m player on 100k a week. Unless we really believe wages truly change the quality of a player?

Because as I’ve said before, you can’t really have both. As if we have one of the highest valued starting 11s in Europe, and think we’re a major player, you can’t play the “but we’re over achieving” card
 

ebzrascal

Well-Known Member
Sep 13, 2009
2,635
4,670
There's an I want to win instantly generation of fans. There's no patience or appreciation of building up for success. It's all about buying it. This is a slow burner, improving what we have now is going to get harder and slower. Anyway, see what the new stadium brings.

Finishing 4th in a season with no home is all good by me too. Especially considering the excellent run in the champs league.

I think us fans have been waiting long enough and against that Manchester Utd team especially with no Rashford and Martial starting this was a massive fail... I think Poch knows it to judging from the post press conference he did..
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
No-one should be bigger than the club, but I guess when it comes down to it, Kane currently is. If rather than doing all that boring recovery work on his own in the gym, he'd rather get strapped up tighter than one of Houdini's dates, and trot about a bit twice a week, then that is what will happen.
That is the price we pay for retaining one of the best strikers in the world.

Given that our attack was crippled, we should have thrown resources at our defence.

MP is all about the collective, but he should have swallowed his pride, forgot the politics and brought Alderweireld in to make a back 5.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I'm not incandescent with rage at yesterday's events, as I was with the ManC debacle a week ago fore instance, just a bit weary of the familiar tropes, good and bad.

You could summarise yesterday as one very good team edging a game against another very good team. It was a tight tussle, competitively fought that could have gone either way by a small margin and that margin came down against us. But within this glib truism, if we delve into the detail, we know there are some underlying harder truths.

The most important one is that Pochettino is a wonderful coach but he's definitely not the smartest in terms of managing his resources. Fore instance, I just do not understand the logic of starting Son in midweek and leaving out Lamela only to do the same yesterday. If he was planning on playing Son against ManU, why not rest him and play Lamela Tuesday? Better still, why not play Lamela against ManU, he's fresher and in better form?

Why, following last year, our best year in the PL, with Wanyama in CM, has he reverted to the belt and braces of Dier. With Wanyama we get a player who can support the press but is also dynamic enough to recover and support the defence when the opposition counter, provides Dembele with a more energetic foil, enabling him to be more of an 8 and less of the 6. Dier was Ok yesterday, but the tactical effect of playing him and Dembele, means we don't have two CM's who can move forwards with the ball, Dembele has to do more work, and ends up fucked after 60 mins, or worse, ends up twisting himself in knots like yesterday.

One of the reasons we didn't win yesterday was that key individuals just didn't perform well enough, like Son, Kane, Alli, Dembele, Davies (to name some) and that mismanagement of resources is one underlying reason for that. We had to watch Alli go through three months of abject performances early in the season because Poch wouldn't make the decision to rotate him. Now we are watching Son and Kane go through motions, whilst the likes of Lamela and Moura sit by twiddling their thumbs.

Would I swap Poch's coaching methods and philosophy for yesterday's managerial opponent? Hell no. But which one do I believe is the most altruistic meritocrat ? Who would I trust most to make decisions for the team and not the individual? hmm...

I find it really odd that people are focusing on the FB's this last week when the Fb's are pretty much doing what the likes of Walker and Rose have been doing for years, getting up and down well enough, being very involved in the game play, defensively doing OK but offering little of quality in forward areas. I would have thought that game yesterday would have the Walker fans creaming, it was a classic Walker performance from Trippier.

And then we have people praising Dier. Dier was OK, but in midfield terms he was no better or worse than Trippier in FB terms. Competent, did simple things OK. Trippier probably contributed more in midfield game play and build up to that game than Dier did. Why is one getting called good and the other shite ? Don't get it? Both were just workmanlike ordinary yesterday, not terrible not great.

A constant failing of this team is it's complete lack of tempo and direction from midfield. When games like yesterday are dying on the vine neither Dier or Dembele are capable speeding it up or dissecting it, and in those moments when good teams set about us, they are very flat footed. Neither of them are dynamic enough to support a forward press and attack (neither of them ever get ahead of the AM's or into the box) or get back and prevent those sporadic but often dangerous counters, and the sight of Herrera leaving Dembele in his wake to score the winner should be a death knell for the fan boys who refuse to countenance the end being nigh for the Belgian dervish.

Poch has had four years to evolve this team, but has been so busy collecting international versions of Aaron Lennon, he's completely neglected the most important area of the team, the engine room, and we end up with a Ford Diesel and Mercedes with dodgy suspension that needs a jump start in the winter. We bought an upgrade on Dier, Wanyama, who was great last season - our best ever - but Poch's favouritism has kicked in over ruthlessness and team. Along with Wanyama, players like Bentaleb, Winks and Onomah might have been a solution, at least in a squad capacity, but they've all been marginalised (or completely ignored).

And I think in these truths is the margins that sometimes cost us on these occasions. Yes, individuals let Poch down yesterday, but they are, by and large, what he made them, for (mostly) better and worse. His decisions, recently and over the longer term, this season and before, impact the now, for (mostly) better and worse.

The better is that we are now playing teams like Juve and ManU and competing on a very even basis. We are not very often getting out worked, we are not often getting outplayed. He has turned players bought for mediocre sums into players worth fortunes, so he deserves huge credit for the transition, but the end product coming from those now highly valued and coveted players is still coming up just a smidgeon short, so that has to go in the debit column.

It's correct to say - and I go back to the seventies - that what we are watching now is a privilege to watch compared to almost any phase between then and now, but it's equally dangerous to utter the "this is as good as it gets" bullshit mantra too.

Individual

Vorm - Felt no more secure with him than I do with Lloris to be honest.

Trippier - Lots of involvement, but didn't contribute enough in forward areas. I thought he could have hit a couple more first time crosses.

Sanchez - I actually thought he had a decent game.

Vertonghen - Excellent again.

Davies - Another very meh game.

Dier - OK

Dembele - Very culpable in both goals, caught fucking about for the first and lost his man for the second. he did some ok stuff but this was another game that the fan boys will choose to pretend doesn't happen.

Eriksen - Wonderful pass for the goal, and was our MOTM, dropping into midfield to help out the tortoise twins. As well as being our creative hub, and our most intelligent payer, also saw more ball than both our CM's and is probably the best presser in that forward group too. The thought of not having him brings me out in a cold sweat.

Alli - Did his thing brilliantly for the goal, did contribute but his pressing can be be very lax at times.

Son - Can be great at the complicated but struggles with the simple. I can't remember a single moment in that game where I felt he had control of the fucking ball.

Kane - Great forst 15 minutes. Pretty poor for the next 75.
 
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matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,732
10,120
. We bought an upgrade on Dier, Wanyama, who was great last season - our best ever - but Poch's favouritism has kicked in over ruthlessness and team. Along with Wanyama, players like Bentaleb, Winks and Onomah might have been a solution, at least in a squad capacity, but they've all been marginalised (or completely ignored).
.

Not fair to Poch on marginalising or ignoring Winks. I think Poch would choose him if he is fit (Like us vs Madrid, yes Madrid). There must be a reason for him to go to Qatar to do the re-hab before the end of season. Winks was the solution to Poch (and I still think he had a lot of chances), but his recent injury records are really worrying. You can see how Kane performs when he is simply unfit

To be honest, if the rumour of Dembele going to China next season were true, I would like to see we could buy a Winks-type midfielder. I love Winks, but his injury condition is worrying.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Not fair to Poch on marginalising or ignoring Winks. I think Poch would choose him if he is fit (Like us vs Madrid, yes Madrid). There must be a reason for him to go to Qatar to do the re-hab before the end of season. Winks was the solution to Poch (and I still think he had a lot of chances), but his recent injury records are really worrying. You can see how Kane performs when he is simply unfit

To be honest, if the rumour of Dembele going to China next season were true, I would like to see we could buy a Winks-type midfielder. I love Winks, but his injury condition is worrying.

Last season Winks was available between December and April and didn't get a single start. There were games this season where Sissoko was picked ahead of him in midfield. Lets not get too bogged down with Winks, I can't be arsed to have another Poch/Winks/integration argument, but it's part of a more general management of resources issue.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,732
10,120
Last season Winks was available between December and April and didn't get a single start. There were games this season where Sissoko was picked ahead of him in midfield. Lets not get too bogged down with Winks, I can't be arsed to have another Poch/Winks/integration argument, but it's part of a more general management of resources issue.

Last season you might be right. But I think Poch was intending to give Winks more starts this season. Winks starts 5 out of 6 CL group stage match this season. He got a number of starts this season in PL before december. Then he got the injury again. I don't think that Winks was really fit in the whole 2018 after the injury (e.g. struggling in the fa cup matches). Poch's selection could be mysterious some times, but it is hard to deny that Winks was having more chances this season before his injury (though not in Dier's level of starts)
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
I find it really odd that people are focusing on the FB's this last week when the Fb's are pretty much doing what the likes of Walker and Rose have been doing for years, getting up and down well enough, being very involved in the game play, defensively doing OK but offering little of quality in forward areas. I would have thought that game yesterday would have the Walker fans creaming, it was a classic Walker performance from Trippier.

I thought I'd pick out this bit for discussion.

My issue is that I don't even think they particularly get up and down well. They get involved and contribute if we're having a prolonged spell of possession and it allows them to shuffle up the pitch with the ball low tempo, but none of them really attack space (with and without the ball) - especially in the final third, or are prepared to make runs up against the opposition back line, and look to get in behind. It contributes to the play just being in front of the opposition and allows them to sit narrower as they don't have to fear the flanks and what might happen if they leave space vacated.

We know Davies wont run anyone or make lung busting overlaps or get way ahead of the play. Aurier has wasted and slowed down some wonderful positions this season, likes the ball to feet under close control and cant take the ball on the move. Trippier is a danger if he can sit high up the pitch and whip crosses in, but for some reason he isn't doing that right now.

You know I favour technical quality and that ilk of player across the park, but in the full back positions, especially in the way Spurs set up, I make an exception and think you need (at least as one of the two options on each flank) direct pacey players who can run and have a sense of adventure and make the most of quick switches of play as and when required. The problem is, I think you've made the point before, that quality fullbacks are rare - those who can provide the athletic ability and technical quality and output, case in point Rose and Walker over the years..... but I do think, even if they don't have wonderful stats and leave you tearing your hair out 90% of the time they have the ball in a decent position, this type of player is needed who will make runs, attack space, and occupy defenders. At the moment our options are too safe and one paced.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I thought I'd pick out this bit for discussion.

My issue is that I don't even think they particularly get up and down well. They get involved and contribute if we're having a prolonged spell of possession and it allows them to shuffle up the pitch with the ball low tempo, but none of them really attack space (with and without the ball) - especially in the final third, or are prepared to make runs up against the opposition back line, and look to get in behind. It contributes to the play just being in front of the opposition and allows them to sit narrower as they don't have to fear the flanks and what might happen if they leave space vacated.

We know Davies wont run anyone or make lung busting overlaps or get way ahead of the play. Aurier has wasted and slowed down some wonderful positions this season, likes the ball to feet under close control and cant take the ball on the move. Trippier is a danger if he can sit high up the pitch and whip crosses in, but for some reason he isn't doing that right now.

You know I favour technical quality and that ilk of player across the park, but in the full back positions, especially in the way Spurs set up, I make an exception and think you need (at least as one of the two options on each flank) direct pacey players who can run and have a sense of adventure and make the most of quick switches of play as and when required. The problem is, I think you've made the point before, that quality fullbacks are rare - those who can provide the athletic ability and technical quality and output, case in point Rose and Walker over the years..... but I do think, even if they don't have wonderful stats and leave you tearing your hair out 90% of the time they have the ball in a decent position, this type of player is needed who will make runs, attack space, and occupy defenders. At the moment our options are too safe and one paced.

I do think there are a couple of obvious LB’s who could improve on Davies (and Rose), but I think it will be harder on the right unless we start playing KWP, which is what I wanted us to do last August.

But I do think the ponderous and risk averse midfield is part of the FB issue. I often see Trippier in good positions waiting for the ball with his arms up and it never comes because Dier’s head doesn’t go up that far to see it.

And as we see with Aurier and we used to with Walker (and Rose) quick feet and no brains are just as useless against the deep block with no room in behind.

Do I wish Trippier was a bit quicker? Maybe. But not as much as I wished Walker would actually do something intelligent when he got forward.

Every time we have a game like this we get the same “we need better fb’s” outcry. But people seem to forget we were never any better in big games like this with Walker and Rose. We’ve probably had better performances and results this year in “big games” with these fb’s than we have previously, so while I’m not saying they are perfect, I really don’t think they are the biggest issue, especially when you see what Fb’s ManC (Delph, Walker) ManU (Valencia, Young) Liverpool (Rooky RB) and Chelsea (Moses) have.
 
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southlondonyiddo

My eyes have seen some of the glory..
Nov 8, 2004
12,599
15,012
Eriksen clearly our MOTM yesterday. Clearly the best player on the pitch full stop.

Verts, Alli & Dier my other picks

Obviously we’re a different prospect when HK is firing and at the moment he just isnt

Sonny as well has gone right off the boil. Thought Lamela should have replaced him long before he actually did

Hindsights a wonderful thing and with another 90mins under his belt v Brighton we all hoped Kane would be sharper and I’m sure we’d all have started with Kane before a ball was kicked.
At the final whistle none of us would have started with him!

This has all been an amazing learning experience for our manager and young squad
I’m sure they’ll learn from it and fully expect the double or even treble next season at our new home!!

COYS
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
I'm not incandescent with rage at yesterday's events, as I was with the ManC debacle a week ago fore instance, just a bit weary of the familiar tropes, good and bad.

You could summarise yesterday as one very good team edging a game against another very good team. It was a tight tussle, competitively fought that could have gone either way by a small margin and that margin came down against us. But within this glib truism, if we delve into the detail we know there are some underlying harder truths.

The most important one is that Pochettino is a wonderful coach but he's definitely not the smartest in terms of managing his resources. Fore instance, I just do not understand the logic of starting Son in midweek and leaving out Lamela only to do the same yesterday. If he was planning on playing Son against ManU, why not rest him and play Lamela Tuesday? Better still, why not play Lamela against ManU, he's fresher and in better form?

Why, following last year, our best year in the PL, with Wanyama in CM, has he reverted to the belt and braces of Dier. With Wanyama we get a player who can support the press but is also dynamic enough to recover and support the defence when the opposition counter, provides Dembele with a more energetic foil, enabling him to be more of an 8 and less of the 6. Dier was Ok yesterday, but the tactical effect of playing him and Dembele, means we don't have two CM's who can move forwards with the ball, Dembele has to do more work, and ends up fucked after 60 mins, or worse, ends up twisting himself in knots like yesterday.

One of the reasons we didn't win yesterday was that key individuals just didn't perform well enough, like Son, Kane, Alli, Dembele, Davies (to name some) and that mismanagement of resources is one underlying reason for that. We had to watch Alli go through three months of abject performances early in the season because Poch wouldn't make the decision to rotate him. Now we are watching Son and Kane go through motions, whilst the likes of Lamela and Moura sit by twiddling their thumbs.

Would I swap Poch's coaching methods and philosophy for yesterday's managerial opponent? Hell no. But which one do I believe is the most altruistic meritocrat ? Who would I trust most to make decisions for the team and not the individual? hmm...

I find it really odd that people are focusing on the FB's this last week when the Fb's are pretty much doing what the likes of Walker and Rose have been doing for years, getting up and down well enough, being very involved in the game play, defensively doing OK but offering little of quality in forward areas. I would have thought that game yesterday would have the Walker fans creaming, it was a classic Walker performance from Trippier.

And then we have people praising Dier. Dier was OK, but in midfield terms he was no better or worse than Trippier in FB terms. Competent, did simple things OK. Trippier probably contributed more in midfield game play and build up to that game than Dier did. Why is one getting called good and the other shite ? Don't get it? Both were just workmanlike ordinary yesterday, not terrible not great.

A constant failing of this team is it's complete lack of tempo and direction from midfield. When games like yesterday are dying on the vine neither Dier or Dembele are capable speeding it up or dissecting it, and in those moments when good teams set about us, they are very flat footed. Neither of them are dynamic enough to support a forward press and attack (neither of them ever get ahead of the AM's or into the box) or get back and prevent those sporadic but often dangerous counters, and the sight of Herrera leaving Dembele in his wake to score the winner should be a death knell for the fan boys who refuse to countenance the end being nigh for the Belgian dervish.

Poch has had four years to evolve this team, but has been so busy collecting international versions of Aaron Lennon, he's completely neglected the most important area of the team, the engine room, and we end up with a Ford Diesel and Mercedes with dodgy suspension that needs a jump start in the winter. We bought an upgrade on Dier, Wanyama, who was great last season - our best ever - but Poch's favouritism has kicked in over ruthlessness and team. Along with Wanyama, players like Bentaleb, Winks and Onomah might have been a solution, at least in a squad capacity, but they've all been marginalised (or completely ignored).

And I think in these truths is the margins that sometimes cost us on these occasions. Yes, individuals let Poch down yesterday, but they are, by and large, what he made them, for better and worse. His decisions, recently and over the longer term, this season and before, impact the now, for better and worse.

The better is that we are now playing teams like Juve and ManU and competing on a very even basis. We are not very often getting out worked, we are not often getting outplayed. He has turned players bought for mediocre sums into players worth fortunes, so he deserves huge credit for the transition, but the end product is still coming up just a smidgeon short, so that has to go in the debit column.

It's correct to say - and I go back to the seventies - that what we are watching now is a privilege to watch compared to almost any phase between then and now, but it's equally dangerous to utter the "this is as good as it gets" bullshit mantra too.

Individual

Vorm - Felt no more secure with him than I do with Lloris to be honest.

Trippier - Lots of involvement, but didn't contribute enough in forward areas. I thought he could have hit a couple more first time crosses.

Sanchez - I actually thought he had a decent game.

Vertonghen - Excellent again.

Davies - Another very meh game.

Dier - OK

Dembele - Very culpable in both goals, caught fucking about for the first and lost his man for the second. he did some ok stuff but this was another game that the fan boys will choose to pretend doesn't happen.

Eriksen - Wonderful pass for the goal, and was our MOTM, dropping into midfield to help out the tortoise twins. As well as being our creative hub, and our most intelligent payer, also saw more ball than both our CM's and is probably the best presser in that forward group too. The thought of not having him brings me out in a cold sweat.

Alli - Did his thing brilliantly for the goal, did contribute but his pressing can be be very lax at times.

Son - Can be great at the complicated but struggles with the simple. I can't remember a single moment in that game where I felt he had control of the fucking ball.

Kane - Great forst 15 minutes. Pretty poor for the next 75.

A criticism without completely melting down and questioning everything about the club? Not throwing your toys out of the pram? Not incandescent with rage because after several weeks of constant winning we are now on poor form?

Sorry Beece, you're on the wrong forum.



(for what it's worth, good post, agreed pretty much in full).
 

WexfordTownSpur

preposition me arse
Aug 2, 2007
2,615
653
Vorm - 5 - very poor keeping for the 2nd goal.
Trippier - 5 - not sure if he remembers he can cross the ball.
Sanchez - 6
Verts - 7.5 - won his battles
Davies - 5 - offered nothing at all offensively
Dier - 7 - solid
Dembele - 6 - very sloppy play for their first goal
Eriksen - 7.5 - even when not quite ‘on it’ he always puts in 100%
Dele - 6 - disappeared after he scored
Son - 6 - had his toblerone boots on and sloppy First touch too often
Kane - 2 - should not have been in the team the last 3 games as clearly is not fit. Should have been subbed for Lamela at HT, and on this form will be a liability at the WC.

Poch - 6 - clearly no plan B and will be labelled as a bottler in big games if he keeps losing them.
So basically your saying the performance was a bit Spursey!
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
This game has highlighted for me how football has changed in the last 30 years .

Pogba goes in to tackle the much reviled Dembele before making the assist ...except he doesn't . He leads in with his arm outstretched in a blatant push . Pushes Dembele back over and leaves with the ball.

HUH ?

No-one , anywhere I've seen , thinks there is anything wrong with that . Hands on opponents has become the norm and now pushing
people off the ball is fine too it appears.

This means that to dribble past a defender you need to get involved in... and win , an arm wrestling match . Players have to have a prizefighter physique to play in the Prem to cope with this .

Check back old matches , there is none of it . Its a different world ...and Jesus Christ only knows what the f*** is going on at corners with the tugging and wrestling .

There must be something in the regulations that prohibits pulling and pushing opponents . I think it messes up the games and
would like some definitive , enforced rulings on this creeping blend of football and rugby before it takes over.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
This game has highlighted for me how football has changed in the last 30 years .

Pogba goes in to tackle the much reviled Dembele before making the assist ...except he doesn't . He leads in with his arm outstretched in a blatant push . Pushes Dembele back over and leaves with the ball.

HUH ?

No-one , anywhere I've seen , thinks there is anything wrong with that . Hands on opponents has become the norm and now pushing
people off the ball is fine too it appears.

This means that to dribble past a defender you need to get involved in... and win , an arm wrestling match . Players have to have a prizefighter physique to play in the Prem to cope with this .

Check back old matches , there is none of it . Its a different world ...and Jesus Christ only knows what the f*** is going on at corners with the tugging and wrestling .

There must be something in the regulations that prohibits pulling and pushing opponents . I think it messes up the games and
would like some definitive , enforced rulings on this creeping blend of football and rugby before it takes over.


Mate, this was much worse back the day. I don't think what Pogba did was a foul. I think Herrera should have been booked before he was, but then I think we got away with a few too.

The sooner VAR comes in the better. Apart from the decision making, in other countries where it's being used, it cuts down on fouls and cheating, because players know it;'s going to pulled up and highlighted.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
Mate, this was much worse back the day. I don't think what Pogba did was a foul. I think Herrera should have been booked before he was, but then I think we got away with a few too.

.

No way was there use of arm wrestling/shirt pulling like today matey. Not a chance . I advise you to look at matches from way back
to see what I'm on about .
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
No way was there use of arm wrestling/shirt pulling like today matey. Not a chance . I advise you to look at matches from way back
to see what I'm on about .

I just don't think incidents were highlighted and replayed from a thousand angles like they are now. I remember watching players kick lumps out of each other, every corner, every CB had a handful of someone, if they were any good anyway.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
The team were naive and struggled against a parked bus. Our fans, however, are embarrassing. When did our fanbase become diluted with so many absolute tits? This new generation of Spurs fan is making me long for the late 90s when we were shit but at least we supported the club through thick and thin.

THIS.

This ratings thread is a fucking nonsense when we lose. It's so overly emotional it's like some sort group session for Melodramatics Anonymous.

I'm starting to think we need to have a ban on this thread being opened for 24 hours after a game. People need a chance to take stock and not just bowl into this thread 2 mins after FT and start vomiting out their melodramatic bile.

Let me be clear, I was not happy at all after the game. There is clearly some issues that need to be addressed to help us navigate these big, knockout games whether it be FA Cup Sem-Finals or Champions League knockout stages, what we're doing isn't working and hasn't worked now for a long time. HOWEVER, to start writing off players and saying that "Dembele is done" when only 2 months ago he was putting on a masterclass to help us navigate our toughest run of fixtures all season is ridiculous.

Ultimately I feel we need more experienced winners in this squad. We also need a vocal leader, not necessarily to be captain but someone who will show our younger stars how to get through these games. We're not miles away, we've shown great character in league games and even against Juve in the 1st leg to get back from 2-0 down, but on the flip side we saw us take the lead in 2nd leg, in same way as we did on Saturday and then buckle under the pressure. It's like we get within touching distant of glory and then snap our hand back like it's gonna bite our fingers off.

Poch isn't the problem, this was happening before he got here. My concern is that the culture of the club needs to change and that includes our fans. We have to learn to believe in our players instead of letting anxiety take hold and shrinking into ourselves.

The game was typical Mourinho shithousery. We played some absolutely brilliant football early on but got done again by a bus parking, counter attacking team scoring 2 goals out of absolutely nowhere. Some individuals didn't perform to their best for sure, but it's more of a mindset issue for me and therefore largely pointless rating each of them.

Tactically we seemed to get funnelled into the middle when there was acres of space out wide and when we finally got it out there we refused to cross the ball. Frustrating. 8 semi finals in a row, what a horrible record to have. Things need to change if we're ever going to progress beyond the tag of being bottle jobs or nearly men.
 
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