Match Ratings Ratings vs Aston Villa

[idontgetit]

I don't think the formation we're playing helps. We're not playing with proper wing-backs and even if we were there's not a DM stepping back into defence to free them up to go forward. It means we play very narrow and can't spread play enough to move the opposition around and create gaps in their defence.

 

[The Apprentice]

Exactly this. It was actually Ndombele who didn’t track the run, but as usual those with an anti Rose agenda will look to blame him for the mistakes of others.

There’s hardly an Anti-Rose agenda on here. He gets a massive free pass most of the time because of his blood ‘n’ guts style.

 

[Spurs 1961]

The way we play always opens us up to the ball over the top. You need a Walker to be able to turn around and chase back. Physically Sissoko is probably the best we have to leave back as he is little use in the final third although he is likely to commit a foul and get sent off.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

I really hope I'm wrong but I can see us switching to 3 at the back in order to play Sess.

It’s crossed my mind that 343/352 might actually suit the players we have from the defensive viewpoint as it maximises Rose/ Sessegnon’s strengths while dulling their weaknesses, same goes for Aurier and KWP, and we have the depth to make it a viable first choice, I.e. Davies and Vertonghen for LCB, Alderweireld and Foyth for RCB, Sanchez and Tanganga for dead centre. However, all those players are equally fine in a 433/4231/442, whereas we have too many attackers who we’d have to fit into just two remaining positions (as Kane will play 9/10 games) as the wouldn’t hack it in a CM2; Son, Lucas, Lamela, Eriksen, Dele, Lo Celso, and then we’d also end up quite bloated for the CM2 with Winks, NDombele, Sissoko, Skipp, Dier and Wanyama.

I can see the 3 CB plus wingbacks on occasion, but I think we’ll settle on a 4231 or 433 as our go to formations as those are what most suit the make up of our squad.

 

[Lighty64]

It’s crossed my mind that 343/352 might actually suit the players we have from the defensive viewpoint as it maximises Rose/ Sessegnon’s strengths while dulling their weaknesses, same goes for Aurier and KWP, and we have the depth to make it a viable first choice, I.e. Davies and Vertonghen for LCB, Alderweireld and Foyth for RCB, Sanchez and Tanganga for dead centre. However, all those players are equally fine in a 433/4231/442, whereas we have too many attackers who we’d have to fit into just two remaining positions (as Kane will play 9/10 games) as the wouldn’t hack it in a CM2; Son, Lucas, Lamela, Eriksen, Dele, Lo Celso, and then we’d also end up quite bloated for the CM2 with Winks, NDombele, Sissoko, Skipp, Dier and Wanyama.

I can see the 3 CB plus wingbacks on occasion, but I think we’ll settle on a 4231 or 433 as our go to formations as those are what most suit the make up of our squad.

I honestly believe that is Sanchez worst position. When he played the central roll I can honestly say he made errors and only off the top of my head I think most of our losses last season was with 3 at the back and Sanchez central

edit: after a bit of research out of our 13 league defeats only 3 times we played 3 at the back, and amazingly we very rarely had all 3 players involved in the squad for most of the other 10 defeats. Jan only played in 22 of our league games mainly due to injury, Sanchez only played 1 more, only Toby made over 30apps

 

[KILLA_SIN]

I thought we played ok yesterday we pressed and applied pressure and we kept the pressure on AV until they made a mistake. Its not always going to be pretty but it was good to our pressing game was back yday. r

 

[JUSTINSIGNAL]

I’m really surprised Toby isn’t being made more culpable for their goal. The basics of playing centre back are that one attack’s thr ball(Sánchez) and if they miss the ball or get turned the other centre back(Toby) has to sweep in behind. Although for their goal Toby was no where to be seen. Yes Rose and Sánchez could have done better but Toby has to at least track runner and get goal side but he was unforgivably flat footed and let McGinn run straight through the middle.

 

[ravo]

Going against many on here, I believe it was the shift on formation, and not necessarily Eriksen, that changed the game. The formation shift was before CE came on and we were already looking like scoring - it was only a matter of time. I disliked the diamond before and I hate it now.

The width from the shift stretched them, but also made their wide players track back very deep. Double bonus.

4-2-3-1 with Lamela behind Kane would have worked too IMO. Now, Lamela may not be Eriksen, but he could have done the job yesterday. But hey ho, 3 points and all that. Just no more diamond!

 

[mpickard2087]

I’m really surprised Toby isn’t being made more culpable for their goal. The basics of playing centre back are that one attack’s thr ball(Sánchez) and if they miss the ball or get turned the other centre back(Toby) has to sweep in behind. Although for their goal Toby was no where to be seen. Yes Rose and Sánchez could have done better but Toby has to at least track runner and get goal side but he was unforgivably flat footed and let McGinn run straight through the middle.

KWP has pushed up the flank and right to the touchline tracking his man though. Toby is covering the right channel for any pass played in to that vacated space and is at what looks like a decent distance from his right back.

At any decent level/coaching you get taught at a young age the defence should work as a pendulum. If the ball is on the (from our defensive POV) right side the left hand side should be positioned and ready to sweep round and cover, and vice versa.

Sanchez is in line with Toby when he should be deeper and covering the long straight/diagonal ball. The guy he is marking is irrelevant at that moment, if they try and chip a ball into him he can still press forward and pressure - as he did many times in the game. It is always better to be going forward attacking the ball than having to chase back towards your own goal and letting the ball bounce into open space.

Even after it's played if he reads the flight of it he can still drop and intercept, but he doesn't and is still too concerned with wrestling his man. So he had two bites of the cherry at getting it right.

Rose then is nearly as bad, again on the pendulum principle and sweeping round. I see some people saying it was Ndombele's man, but you hand men over all the time to the next one who's zone he is going into. As the fullback on the opposite side how often will he have practiced sweeping round on the cover, and it's one of the most basic situational bits of defending they must do - the urgency of shutting the door on your marker trying to get the inside run on you, either by getting to the ball first or blocking him off. But he's dawdling and again, looking at his stride pattern, doesn't read the flight and is hesitant and the damage is done.

That's many words to debate a single goal, but really I don't see who else was to blame, between the two of them it should have been dealt with and it was a bit of a cock up.

 

[Timberwolf]

It’s crossed my mind that 343/352 might actually suit the players we have from the defensive viewpoint as it maximises Rose/ Sessegnon’s strengths while dulling their weaknesses, same goes for Aurier and KWP, and we have the depth to make it a viable first choice, I.e. Davies and Vertonghen for LCB, Alderweireld and Foyth for RCB, Sanchez and Tanganga for dead centre. However, all those players are equally fine in a 433/4231/442, whereas we have too many attackers who we’d have to fit into just two remaining positions (as Kane will play 9/10 games) as the wouldn’t hack it in a CM2; Son, Lucas, Lamela, Eriksen, Dele, Lo Celso, and then we’d also end up quite bloated for the CM2 with Winks, NDombele, Sissoko, Skipp, Dier and Wanyama.

I can see the 3 CB plus wingbacks on occasion, but I think we’ll settle on a 4231 or 433 as our go to formations as those are what most suit the make up of our squad.

Playing 3 at the back has been quite hit or miss over recent seasons, but I am quite curious to see how it would look with our new additions. I think something along these lines has a lot of potential:

Lloris
Toby Sanchez Verts
KWP Ndombele Winks Sessegnon
Lo Celso
Son Kane
​

Given Lo Celso is better than any of our current crop at playing both as an 8 and 10 he could naturally rotate with Ndombele and Winks, while also providing adequate defensive cover. I also think this formation might bring the best out of KWP and Sess, both of which are stronger going forward than at defending.

If we wanted to be really offensive we could try Lo Celso in the Winks role and play Eriksen behind the front 2. I actually think Lo Celso might be better than Winks defensively (his defensive stats were impressive for PSG) and is certainly more adventurous going forward, but we'd miss Winks' metronomic passing.

As you said the formation does cause a bit of a selection headache, but could be a useful option against certain teams.

 

[Nebby]

Sissoko on the right looks dreadful; it's like he has zero confidence. Sissoko through the middle looks a different player; he can win it and run with it and open teams up. But how does a player reach this level and be completely unable to shoot???

 

[mattdefoe]

Sissoko on the right looks dreadful; it's like he has zero confidence. Sissoko through the middle looks a different player; he can win it and run with it and open teams up. But how does a player reach this level and be completely unable to shoot???

He could shoot at Newcastle , now he struggles

 

[kungfugrip]

Thought Ndombele was just okay,... goal was obviously a nice bonus on his debut.

Lamela huffed and puffed (can never fault his effort) but ultimately disappointing although did contribute to Kane's goal.

Lucas frustrated again against a tight compact team - he seems to need lots of space to play in behind - but when are we going to get that space? Also was standing on Kane's toes similar to last year.

KWP saw lots of the ball as he hugged the touchline out on that side. Didn't do anything amazing but was certainly solid and showed promising signs.

Sissoko needs to play in the middle!!

Eriksen changed the game. Even when not at his best (be it fitness or attitude), he's still better than everyone else.

Favourite moment of the game (apart from the goals obviously) was that Winks tackle and body swerve to bring the ball away!

 

[whitesocks]

KWP has pushed up the flank and right to the touchline tracking his man though. Toby is covering the right channel for any pass played in to that vacated space and is at what looks like a decent distance from his right back.

At any decent level/coaching you get taught at a young age the defence should work as a pendulum. If the ball is on the (from our defensive POV) right side the left hand side should be positioned and ready to sweep round and cover, and vice versa.

Sanchez is in line with Toby when he should be deeper and covering the long straight/diagonal ball. The guy he is marking is irrelevant at that moment, if they try and chip a ball into him he can still press forward and pressure - as he did many times in the game. It is always better to be going forward attacking the ball than having to chase back towards your own goal and letting the ball bounce into open space.

Even after it's played if he reads the flight of it he can still drop and intercept, but he doesn't and is still too concerned with wrestling his man. So he had two bites of the cherry at getting it right.

Rose then is nearly as bad, again on the pendulum principle and sweeping round. I see some people saying it was Ndombele's man, but you hand men over all the time to the next one who's zone he is going into. As the fullback on the opposite side how often will he have practiced sweeping round on the cover, and it's one of the most basic situational bits of defending they must do - the urgency of shutting the door on your marker trying to get the inside run on you, either by getting to the ball first or blocking him off. But he's dawdling and again, looking at his stride pattern, doesn't read the flight and is hesitant and the damage is done.

That's many words to debate a single goal, but really I don't see who else was to blame, between the two of them it should have been dealt with and it was a bit of a cock up.

Rose had a guy making progress up the wing to mark. How comes he gets 2 men to deal with?
McGinn runs from midfield, admittedly at pace, and no-one went with him. That's the problem. Maybe Winks had just made a rare run forward, but as you say, someone should have taken on his defensive job.
If Winks had been in position, he couldn't have matched that run. But he could have taken a yellow.

Not a good goal to concede but all's well that ends well.

 

[midoNdefoe]

Rose the only player that earned his wages for the first 70 minutes. MOTM for me. TD runner up - started to impose himself in the last 25 minutes.

Who’s TD?

 

[SlotBadger]

Who’s TD?

Tanguy Dnombele?

 

[davidmatzdorf]

at the time McGin was Roses man. McGin started his run from Roses side and drifted to the right CB position

Gin and Roses