Player Watch: Tanguy Ndombele

dtxspurs

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Ndombele has played as the deepest/screening "defensive" midfielder for both Lyon and for France. Just last week he played as the deepest midfielder, breaking up play and distributing, while Pogba ran around without having very little defensive responsibility. He's actually pretty comparable to Fernandinho, who often is tasked with sitting deep for Man City as they dominate possession.
Basically every Lyon fan I've read has said he is not a DM and he will be lazy in defense at times. I think he'd be a waste as a holding role. He needs to be getting up the field, starting attacks and picking through balls to the forwards.
 

yiddo

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Basically every Lyon fan I've read has said he is not a DM and he will be lazy in defense at times. I think he'd be a waste as a holding role. He needs to be getting up the field, starting attacks and picking through balls to the forwards.
The news we are getting strongly suggests that Ndombele and Lo Celso are our 1st choice targets.

IF what you suggest is the case, I haven't watched him enough to judge myself, then what the hell are we doing??? We didn't on occasions play both Eriksen and Dele in the deep lying roles by choice. We were forced into it by the lack of depth in that position.

Upgrading the positions further up the field would be nice but surely the club see we have much more depth there than in the deep lying roles.
 

Joshua

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Basically every Lyon fan I've read has said he is not a DM and he will be lazy in defense at times. I think he'd be a waste as a holding role. He needs to be getting up the field, starting attacks and picking through balls to the forwards.
Imagine he’d be in rotation with Sissoko. We’ve mostly used a 3 this season with Winks the deepest to control tempo, Sissoko for transition between boxes and Eriksen as the playmaker. Looking at the way Ndombele plays it looks like he’d be in competition with Sissoko for that role. Don’t think France ever play the two of them it’s sither one or the other.
 

Joshua

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The news we are getting strongly suggests that Ndombele and Lo Celso are our 1st choice targets.

IF what you suggest is the case, I haven't watched him enough to judge myself, then what the hell are we doing??? We didn't on occasions play both Eriksen and Dele in the deep lying roles by choice. We were forced into it by the lack of depth in that position.

Upgrading the positions further up the field would be nice but surely the club see we have much more depth there than in the deep lying roles.
Our deepest midfielder is Winks. Our tactics have moved on from having one of our midfielders being a traditional destroyer imo. Dier and Wanyama look so awkward and out of place in our current set up. Not many top clubs play with players who just sit and tackle these days.
 

yiddo

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Our deepest midfielder is Winks. Our tactics have moved on from having one of our midfielders being a traditional destroyer imo. Dier and Wanyama look so awkward and out of place in our current set up. Not many top clubs play with players who just sit and tackle these days.
Fair point and I dont disagree but I think we have looked a lot less solid defensively since both Dier and Wanyama's form has nose dived.

If we dont go for a traditional DM then I would want us to improve the defence. Otherwise I dont see us being defensively good enough again next season.
 

yiddo

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Fair point and I dont disagree but I think we have looked a lot less solid defensively since both Dier and Wanyama's form has nose dived.

If we dont go for a traditional DM then I would want us to improve the defence. Otherwise I dont see us being defensively good enough again next season.
But I will also add that both City and Liverpool look stronger when their main defensive midfielder plays i.e. Fernandinho and Fabinho
 

rawhide

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Our deepest midfielder is Winks. Our tactics have moved on from having one of our midfielders being a traditional destroyer imo. Dier and Wanyama look so awkward and out of place in our current set up. Not many top clubs play with players who just sit and tackle these days.
Whilst they don’t just tackle, Fernandinho, Henderson and Kante are all tackle first players.
 

BringBack_leGin

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Two of our best midfield combinations in modern times were Jenas with Carrick and Modric with Parker. It’s not about having a pure DM and AM like it used to be, it’s about having players with the right physical and mental attributes who’s skill sets complement each other.

Winks + Sissoko
N’Dombele + Sissoko
Winks + N’Dombele
Dier + any of the above when we need to be more solid.

Eriksen or Lo Celso dropping back to make a 3 with any of the above combinations when we need more midfield control.
 

hellava_tough

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Two of our best midfield combinations in modern times were Jenas with Carrick and Modric with Parker. It’s not about having a pure DM and AM like it used to be, it’s about having players with the right physical and mental attributes who’s skill sets complement each other.

Winks + Sissoko
N’Dombele + Sissoko
Winks + N’Dombele
Dier + any of the above when we need to be more solid.

Eriksen or Lo Celso dropping back to make a 3 with any of the above combinations when we need more midfield control.
Exactly; it's about options.

I've said before, however, the fullbacks are crucial in modern football as well. If we can sort these positions out it really starts stretching the opposition all over the place, thus allowing more space in the centre for the likes of Sissoko, NDombele and even Winks to burst into.

IIRC, last season no one was doubling up on Trippier, or Davis when he played, because they knew that their wasn't much threat from direct pace down the wing and in behind. If there had have been, the oppoisition would be forced to move another midfield out to the flank to help their fullback. Once this happens, we can move the ball quickly into the centre and we have space and options again.
 

Japhet

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Our deepest midfielder is Winks. Our tactics have moved on from having one of our midfielders being a traditional destroyer imo. Dier and Wanyama look so awkward and out of place in our current set up. Not many top clubs play with players who just sit and tackle these days.
Winks only really played there because Dier and Wanyama were out of action. IMO he's better a bit further forward where he was our most incisive passer and tempo setter. He was good in the deeper role as well though with his ability to take the ball under pressure and find a pass.
 

spursfan77

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Basically every Lyon fan I've read has said he is not a DM and he will be lazy in defense at times. I think he'd be a waste as a holding role. He needs to be getting up the field, starting attacks and picking through balls to the forwards.
There was itk from trix last summer (but it didn’t go in the read only) that we weren’t sure about him in deep positions on the ball and that’s why we didn’t pursue then. Seems that’s changed now. But their fans must be right too. I’d go with their opinions of him after all they watch him more than anyone else.
 

WiganSpur

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Think it's been interesting just how little we've heard about outgoings/targets at the RB position for us. Really thought we'd see 2 out, 1 in, and despite it being early, after the initial flurry of mutterings on Trippier, it's gone pretty quiet.
We always miss out on improving one or two positions. Reckon RB will be one of them and we'll be stuck with Trippier.
 

S17PUR

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Winks only really played there because Dier and Wanyama were out of action. IMO he's better a bit further forward where he was our most incisive passer and tempo setter. He was good in the deeper role as well though with his ability to take the ball under pressure and find a pass.
I actually think Winks is better a little deeper, playing passes through to the likes of Eriksen that break the lines. I don't really ever recall him playing the type of clipped through balls that Eriksen does, for example, that lead directly to shots at the opposition goal. Perhaps he's just not had the opportunity, but I'd say he's definitely more of a deep lying playmaker. He could become more of a box-to-box midfielder, but he needs to add goals if that's the case.
 

Nick-TopSpursMan

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There was itk from trix last summer (but it didn’t go in the read only) that we weren’t sure about him in deep positions on the ball and that’s why we didn’t pursue then. Seems that’s changed now. But their fans must be right too. I’d go with their opinions of him after all they watch him more than anyone else.
I've said before that Ndombele is not a DM. That's why I'd be surprised if City come in for him as he isn't a Fernandinho replacement imo. He is an all round CM who can play deeper if required but you won't get the very best out of him. He does lack focus at times and needs to improve in this area.

However we have seen Winks play deeper for us and perhaps we see him as the deeper midfielder, with Ndombele alongside him with more authority to push up.
 

BringBack_leGin

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I've said before that Ndombele is not a DM. That's why I'd be surprised if City come in for him as he isn't a Fernandinho replacement imo. He is an all round CM who can play deeper if required but you won't get the very best out of him. He does lack focus at times and needs to improve in this area.

However we have seen Winks play deeper for us and perhaps we see him as the deeper midfielder, with Ndombele alongside him with more authority to push up.
Winks + N’Dombele could be what we wanted Mason + Bentaleb to be.
 
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Exactly; it's about options.

I've said before, however, the fullbacks are crucial in modern football as well. If we can sort these positions out it really starts stretching the opposition all over the place, thus allowing more space in the centre for the likes of Sissoko, NDombele and even Winks to burst into.

IIRC, last season no one was doubling up on Trippier, or Davis when he played, because they knew that their wasn't much threat from direct pace down the wing and in behind. If there had have been, the oppoisition would be forced to move another midfield out to the flank to help their fullback. Once this happens, we can move the ball quickly into the centre and we have space and options again.
With regards to the full backs.

One thing I always find interesting is how we depend so much on width and quality ball high up the pitch from our fullbacks.

Against lower teams, when we will likely have significantly greater possession, I think we should just play midfielders in those positions. They will the. Have the necessary skill tondeiver attacking returns.

Of course this is limited as against the top six and in knockout Europe we’d need the defensive abilities more so but then of course we could play a ‘Davies’ Andre solid and counter with Son Moura instead.

It does intreague me how many teams depend so heavily on originally defensive players to do the key attacking roles.

With this said if you can find TAA and Robertson, happy days
 

hellava_tough

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With regards to the full backs.

One thing I always find interesting is how we depend so much on width and quality ball high up the pitch from our fullbacks.

Against lower teams, when we will likely have significantly greater possession, I think we should just play midfielders in those positions. They will the. Have the necessary skill tondeiver attacking returns.

Of course this is limited as against the top six and in knockout Europe we’d need the defensive abilities more so but then of course we could play a ‘Davies’ Andre solid and counter with Son Moura instead.

It does intreague me how many teams depend so heavily on originally defensive players to do the key attacking roles.

With this said if you can find TAA and Robertson, happy days
Off the top of my head, I think if you did that you'd have a player or two less in the attack; basically you wouldn't have your fullbacks further up the pitch.

The idea is to overload the defence with your attacking players to keep the opposition pressed back into their half. Fullbacks are useful in achieving this.
 
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