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Player Watch: Juan Foyth

Timberwolf

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2008
10,328
50,217
Foyth is obviously a pretty bright footballer, for one so young. I agree he's been needed more than he's ready for this season, but I guarantee you that there's zero chance that Poch is going to decide "enough is enough" and bin him. That's not going to happen, and nor should it.
He's a very good footballer but even for his age he has a very rash streak. His tendency to give away pens - he's been lucky not to give away about 2 or 3 more on top of the two given against Wolves - is worrying, along with diving into challenges needlessly. Yes, he's young, but I don't recall many young players who seem to walk the fine line between brilliance and utterly moronic with the same drunken lunacy as Foyth.

He's so talented and I love watching him but he'll have to fix these errors quick because we really can't afford to throw matches like that on a regular basis.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
I feel like an alien here ...

https://www.transfermarkt.fr/juan-f.../480763/saison/2018/wettbewerb/GB1/verein/148

Look at the games he’s played in there. Which ones entailed mistakes beyond Wolves and Bournemouth yday?

At the end of last year he played brilliantly against Chelsea and Arsenal. He’s done well in lots of other games. Solid against city away recently.

Have I suffered from amnesia ? What is all this based on? Specific games please.
Those are games where the errors were punished. Conversely, I can’t remember the last game where he didn’t make a huge error of judgement.
 

Spurs 1961

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
6,665
8,739
Foyth needs more game time but also at the moment Poch seems to be trying him out in different positions. I think a settled position with a settled team around will help him immensely. Right now we are all at sixes and sevens and believe it is unfair to blame him too much.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Now the dust as settled and it looks like he hasn't cost us Champions League football, obviously he let us down in a huge way yesterday, you can't look at it any other way it was by far the biggest individual error of the season bar none. However I've said in the past about him, he clearly has an abundance of talent and if we want him to turn into a world class CB then we are going to have to suffer in the near future, he's going to need a large run of games and I'd say there will be a lot of mistakes but in 18 months time we could have a real top cb on our hands.

I know there's an argument to be made that people with perceived lesser potential would not be making these errors but you have to remember he's still under 20 starts in senior football in total letalone spurs. He started as an AM until 16, he has the parts to his game which seem the hardest to teach, he just needs that experience at in defence, even if that means playing a lot at DM like Ledley or playing RB like Sergio Ramos, personally I'd like to see us stick it out and try and get the best out of him.
 

SdB

Well-Known Member
Aug 23, 2013
1,367
1,878
He takes far too many risks on the ball in dangerous areas and decision making goes wrong at times.

Still think he will develop into a top player
 

Spurslove

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2012
6,627
9,281
Now the dust as settled and it looks like he hasn't cost us Champions League football, obviously he let us down in a huge way yesterday, you can't look at it any other way it was by far the biggest individual error of the season bar none. However I've said in the past about him, he clearly has an abundance of talent and if we want him to turn into a world class CB then we are going to have to suffer in the near future, he's going to need a large run of games and I'd say there will be a lot of mistakes but in 18 months time we could have a real top cb on our hands.

I know there's an argument to be made that people with perceived lesser potential would not be making these errors but you have to remember he's still under 20 starts in senior football in total letalone spurs. He started as an AM until 16, he has the parts to his game which seem the hardest to teach, he just needs that experience at in defence, even if that means playing a lot at DM like Ledley or playing RB like Sergio Ramos, personally I'd like to see us stick it out and try and get the best out of him.

I appreciate what you're saying and in many ways, I agree with you, but the biggest call must belong to Poch who has to decide how much leeway to give the boy while he's gaining that crucial experience and match-day awareness at the highest level. During that period, how many points will he lose the team, and how many suspensions will he earn? Not so long ago, it wouldn't have mattered so much as we were a mid-table team at best, a mile away from threatening the top four for a Champions League place, it didn't matter much if we finished 9th or 15th in the table but thank God, times have changed and we are now in the position of having to keep our Champions League place at all costs and we cannot afford any of our players making the kind of monstrous tackles Foyth made the other day. That's not what we are about.

So that is the call Poch has to make. How much time and patience does he allow the boy to develop, mature and yes, to grow up.

.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
Now the dust as settled and it looks like he hasn't cost us Champions League football, obviously he let us down in a huge way yesterday, you can't look at it any other way it was by far the biggest individual error of the season bar none. However I've said in the past about him, he clearly has an abundance of talent and if we want him to turn into a world class CB then we are going to have to suffer in the near future, he's going to need a large run of games and I'd say there will be a lot of mistakes but in 18 months time we could have a real top cb on our hands.

I know there's an argument to be made that people with perceived lesser potential would not be making these errors but you have to remember he's still under 20 starts in senior football in total letalone spurs. He started as an AM until 16, he has the parts to his game which seem the hardest to teach, he just needs that experience at in defence, even if that means playing a lot at DM like Ledley or playing RB like Sergio Ramos, personally I'd like to see us stick it out and try and get the best out of him.


IMO, some of Lloris clangers have been as bad.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,328
13,927
The true sign of quality is if he learns from his mistakes or he keeps repeating the same mistakes again and again.
 

si_yidarmy

£NIC OUT
Apr 17, 2005
4,717
931
Foyth is a fantastic player and very clever defender. He is still young and learning - name a defender that age that is solid and consistent! He has definitely learnt a lot already, he bossed Sterling in the 1-0 defeat and is being nurtured to be a Jan type of player moving forward that can thrive in a CB and RWB area. Players in this modern game need to be diverse and that is what I see in him. Sure he makes mistakes but I bet Lloris and Toby have made more this season
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
IMO, some of Lloris clangers have been as bad.

I think in terms of the context, you're brought on because we're down to 10 and you're replacing a player because he was a risk at being sent off when you need to win this game to secure top4, to come on and do that in 2 minutes has to be the biggest mistake on the season surely.

I appreciate what you're saying and in many ways, I agree with you, but the biggest call must belong to Poch who has to decide how much leeway to give the boy while he's gaining that crucial experience and match-day awareness at the highest level. During that period, how many points will he lose the team, and how many suspensions will he earn? Not so long ago, it wouldn't have mattered so much as we were a mid-table team at best, a mile away from threatening the top four for a Champions League place, it didn't matter much if we finished 9th or 15th in the table but thank God, times have changed and we are now in the position of having to keep our Champions League place at all costs and we cannot afford any of our players making the kind of monstrous tackles Foyth made the other day. That's not what we are about.

So that is the call Poch has to make. How much time and patience does he allow the boy to develop, mature and yes, to grow up.

.

I agree it's tough, especially when you look at the sheer consistency of City and Liverpool you see that there is no margin for error. Poch also said before that he likes to put players in during big situations to see what they're made off and you can see that where Foyth has made starts vs Arsenal, Chelsea, Dortmund when he didn't need to, his starts vs Wolves and Palace were down to injury. For me it's going to need a balance, picking the right games where he can get defensive awareness. I guess for me he's made all the big 3 errors this season, penalties vs Wolves, overplaying vs Bournemouth and lunging in and then poor pass/dawdling vs Arsenal, I hope he can learn from all of these and cut the shit out but it's a difficult balance, I'd say he's probably got the majority of fans against him now in that if he makes a mistake people are going to call for him to leave but personally I'd like to stick by him however I don't really have a counter argument to what you're saying about how many points can we afford to lose, I agree with you that this is where Poch will have to earn his wedge based on his judgement.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
Nov 18, 2007
31,842
56,935
The problem is, the only way to eliminate his flaws are with game time, and he’s nowhere near being trustworthy to handle the pressures inherent with premier league football. I genuinely have more faith in Carter Vickers right now, and I don’t much fancy him either. So where do you give him the game time?

I’d suggest that if ever a player could benefit from a loan, it’s Foyth, and I’d loan him to a club who play similar style to us but in a lower league (as putting him in a side who are primarily on the back foot won’t reach him how to play for Spurs).

Whoever doesn’t come up out of Leeds, Villa or Derby would be my choice.
Utterly ridiculous.

If he goes on loan it should be to a club in the PL. There are probably only a handful of CB's I'd rather have in the squad than Foyth that are in the bottom half of the PL. He is more than good enough already be playing at that level, just at a club that if he does make the odd mistake it's not going to be scrutinised so heavily until he irons them out.

I can guarantee VVD, Vertonghen, Kompany etc. all had mistakes in them when they were 21. The answer isn't always to drop them down the leagues.

If it was up to me he'd be going nowhere.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Utterly ridiculous.

If he goes on loan it should be to a club in the PL. There are probably only a handful of CB's I'd rather have in the squad than Foyth that are in the bottom half of the PL. He is more than good enough already be playing at that level, just at a club that if he does make the odd mistake it's not going to be scrutinised so heavily until he irons them out.

I can guarantee VVD, Vertonghen, Kompany etc. all had mistakes in them when they were 21. The answer isn't always to drop them down the leagues.

If it was up to me he'd be going nowhere.

You only have to watch him at Southampton kicking thin air vs Kane to see that, Dele destroyed him on a couple of headers too.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
The thing with Foyth is, his pure ability is unquestionable, he clearly has bags of it. Even the run he made with the ball in the seconds approaching his horror tackle was evidence of this. However, he clearly is susceptible to a rush of blood to the head in high pressure moments, it's been punished three times with this being the worst example and he's had several lucky escapes too.

The conundrum herein is that the only real way to get him to learn in this respect is to keep playing games, and have him play consistently, not 1 in every 4 (his ratio this season). The fact that, between Spurs and Estudiantes he has played fewer than 20 league matches is the issue, and I would suggest that his move to us game probably a season to early in his career, or we should have signed him but left him where was was for the duration of last season.

I think that if Foyth is every going to translate ability to performances, we need to loan him out now, while he is still young and absorbent. Keep Toby if possible, Vertonghen and Sanchez too of course, and in CCV we have a centre back who this past 6 months has proven himself dependable and solid enough. He may not be of high enough ability in the long term, but in the short term if it allowed Foyth a year to develop on loan then sell him on at the end of it, I think this would be the best approach.

I suggested earlier that a higher level Championship side would be better than a lower level Premier League side, this is because Foyth won't learn anything useful to us by playing for Brighton or Sheffield Utd and being in a set up where his sole duty is to win headers and hold position, because that's not how our centre backs play. Put him in whoever fails to get promoted out of Leeds, Villa and Derby. They all dominate possession, they all attack, and they all require their centre backs to combine defending with ball playing ability. That is where he learns how to play for Spurs.

Utterly ridiculous.

If he goes on loan it should be to a club in the PL. There are probably only a handful of CB's I'd rather have in the squad than Foyth that are in the bottom half of the PL. He is more than good enough already be playing at that level, just at a club that if he does make the odd mistake it's not going to be scrutinised so heavily until he irons them out.

I can guarantee VVD, Vertonghen, Kompany etc. all had mistakes in them when they were 21. The answer isn't always to drop them down the leagues.

If it was up to me he'd be going nowhere.

And at 21 VVD, Vertonghen and Kompany all played in far weaker leagues than the Premier League where they could learn their trade as all rounders without every mistake resulting in near certain disaster.
 

CoopsieDeadpool

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2012
18,257
70,419
Utterly ridiculous.

If he goes on loan it should be to a club in the PL. There are probably only a handful of CB's I'd rather have in the squad than Foyth that are in the bottom half of the PL. He is more than good enough already be playing at that level, just at a club that if he does make the odd mistake it's not going to be scrutinised so heavily until he irons them out.

I can guarantee VVD, Vertonghen, Kompany etc. all had mistakes in them when they were 21. The answer isn't always to drop them down the leagues.

If it was up to me he'd be going nowhere.


Stupid post.

The guy turned 21 in January and hasn't even been so much as considered for the ballon d'or yet.

Useless **** needs to be sold & upgraded upon, sharpish!
 
Last edited:

Khilari

Plumber. Sort of.
Jun 19, 2008
3,461
5,287
Now the dust as settled and it looks like he hasn't cost us Champions League football, obviously he let us down in a huge way yesterday, you can't look at it any other way it was by far the biggest individual error of the season bar none. However I've said in the past about him, he clearly has an abundance of talent and if we want him to turn into a world class CB then we are going to have to suffer in the near future, he's going to need a large run of games and I'd say there will be a lot of mistakes but in 18 months time we could have a real top cb on our hands.

I know there's an argument to be made that people with perceived lesser potential would not be making these errors but you have to remember he's still under 20 starts in senior football in total letalone spurs. He started as an AM until 16, he has the parts to his game which seem the hardest to teach, he just needs that experience at in defence, even if that means playing a lot at DM like Ledley or playing RB like Sergio Ramos, personally I'd like to see us stick it out and try and get the best out of him.
IMO, some of Lloris clangers have been as bad.
Trippier's OG at Chelsea comes to mind also.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Trippier's OG at Chelsea comes to mind also.

I don't see how either of those are a comparison for coming on for 2 minutes because we're down to 10 to replace a guy with a yellow card in a game where a win secures champions league and lunging in like needlessly on the halfway line.
 
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