Player watch: Josh Onomah

[JayB]

It genuinely never ceases to amaze me the amount of misplaced certitude and deluded arrogance of some fans stretching the truth and masquerading supposition as fact to make a point:

• “No one believed Sissoko was good enough and wasn’t supposed to start”. Really? Who? Anonymous amateurs on a football forum? Ok. More likely reality: He played a hell of lot of football last year and was often praised by players and Poch. What is more likely is that we are seeing this season are the fruits of his hard work on the training ground.
• “Wanyama has been injured for two years and his career is over”. So how did he manage to play almost every game in 2016/17 or score a wonder goal this time last year. More likely reality: Wanyama has had injury problems off and on since August 2017 and the club has been working with him to rehabilitate as he is still in his 20s and there is no reason why he can’t recover unless posters get more physiotherapy knowledge from TV than professional physios and Doctors working with him.
• “Dembele has been unable to play and we knew he was crocked”. Again, did we? He has played 9 times this year and what is as likely is that the club was trying to manage him threw the injuries and get some use out of him this year to see if he improved. He didn’t. So we sold him. He’s a unique player anyway and we won’t probably won't have one like him again and so we were trying to bring through Skipp and Amos (doing the very thing Poch has been criticised by other-maybe not the same- posters for not doing)
• (Personal favourite) “Sissoko’s injury is a result of him playing too much and getting injured”. Is it? And people now that how? Anyone can get injured by pulling a muscle. Toby did last year 2 months into the season against Madrid. Rose did one week ago against Chelsea. What next? Dier’s appendicitis was a result of the stress of us not having depth in the squad.

People have yet to say “he was the attainable player we should have signed, we could have gone for him and got him”- precisely because there just aren’t many players out there who would have improved us and wereattainable. If we had signed one centre mid and if he had been good enough and gelled into the team and if he was fit now, I don’t think we would suddenly be in a much better position. The same is true of Kane- I have yet to see someone we could have got who would have slotted in to replace him now better than the raft of attacking mids we have and Llorente. I am actually quite looking forward to seeing us play on Sunday as we often play with a bit more fluidity without Kane, even though missing the pace of Son and Moura (albeit not for long hopefully) is a short term blow.

On topic, if we get JO back then it's an exciting chance for him.

I completely disagree regarding Dembele and Wanyama.

Dembele was a sick note in every single season of his Spurs career. Was that magically going to change this season?

Wanyama has not strung together more than two or three matches without suffering a recurrence of his knee injury for 18 months now. It was an issue during preseason, just as it has consistently been an issue since the first match of the 17/18 season. He's been transfer listed, and there have been no takers. The only clubs that have even been linked with him in the press have been Celtic and WBA. Do you honestly think Scotland or the Championship is the appropriate level for a soon to be fully fit Victor Wanyama for whom it's only a matter of time until he's back at his best?

They were crocked. Everyone who didn't have their head buried in the sand knew they were crocked. We should not have been in a position of reliance on them.

 

[Coyboy]

I completely disagree regarding Dembele and Wanyama.

(1)Dembele was a sick note in every single season of his Spurs career. Was that magically going to change this season?

(2)Wanyama has not strung together more than two or three matches without suffering a recurrence of his knee injury for 18 months now. It was an issue during preseason, just as it has consistently been an issue since the first match of the 17/18 season. He's been transfer listed, and there have been no takers. The only clubs that have even been linked with him in the press have been Celtic and WBA (3). Do you honestly think Scotland or the Championship is the appropriate level for a soon to be fully fit Victor Wanyama for whom it's only a matter of time until he's back at his best?

They were crocked. (4)Everyone who didn't have their head buried in the sand knew they were crocked. We should not have been in a position of reliance on them.

(1) You mean the seasons when he played between 39-44 per season? That is every single season other than this.

(2) Yes for 18 months, roughly- not 2 years which was my point. Has been transfer listed? Genuine question so can you provide the source?

(3) Clubs "linked" in the press. As good as fact then.

(4) No. Fans who have no professional expertise or inside knowledge guessed that they were crocked.

 

[JayB]

(1) You mean the seasons when he played between 39-44 per season? That is every single season other than this.

(2) Yes for 18 months, roughly- not 2 years which was my point. Has been transfer listed? Genuine question so can you provide the source?

(3) Clubs "linked" in the press. As good as fact then.

(4) No. Fans who have no professional expertise or inside knowledge guessed that they were crocked.

Windy, the journo who just conducted the Dembele farewell interview for the club's official social media, posted this two weeks after the summer transfer window closed:



David Hytner at the Guardian reported ten days ago that we want to sell Wanyama.

Steve Nash, who's been close to the club for years and covers Tottenham for American TV, let slip on camera that Wanyama's knee injury is degenerative.

Every indication -- from the dozen setbacks he's suffered, to the fact that multiple media figures close to the club have suggested that the injury is chronic and that the club is prepared to move on -- suggests that it is likely not simply a matter of time until he's back to full fitness. Yet somehow you believe that people who have concerns over that are delusional.

 

[Coyboy]

Windy, the journo who just conducted the Dembele farewell interview for the club's official social media, posted this two weeks after the summer transfer window closed:



David Hytner at the Guardian reported ten days ago that we want to sell Wanyama.

Steve Nash, who's been close to the club for years and covers Tottenham for American TV, let slip on camera that Wanyama's knee injury is degenerative.

Every indication -- from the dozen setbacks he's suffered, to the fact that multiple media figures close to the club have suggested that the injury is chronic and that the club is prepared to move on -- suggests that it is likely not simply a matter of time until he's back to full fitness. Yet somehow you believe that people who have concerns over that are delusional.

Windy? As in the bloke who watches the youngsters?

A basketball player and a couple of 'graphs from the Guardian which has no quotes and probably took as long as this post to write. Ok then. Point proven.

 

[JayB]

Windy? As in the bloke who watches the youngsters?

As in the bloke who blogs and hosts a podcast about the senior team, and who occasionally works in an official capacity for the club's social media outlets including this week. If he posted that he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama, then he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama.

 

[Coyboy]

As in the bloke who blogs and hosts a podcast about the senior team, and who occasionally works in an official capacity for the club's social media outlets including this week. If he posted that he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama, then he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama.

I know. I genuinely didn’t think he was ITK/worked for the club so fair enough if true but still pinch of salt and that. And who knows whether we tried to sell while we had someone in mind to replace and that fell through.

 

[Coyboy]

As in the bloke who blogs and hosts a podcast about the senior team, and who occasionally works in an official capacity for the club's social media outlets including this week. If he posted that he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama, then he was told that we tried to sell Wanyama.

Can you post a link to that Dembele tribute that windy did for the club?

 

[JayB]

Can you post a link to that Dembele tribute that windy did for the club?

It was the interview with Dembele and Vertonghen that was posted on Facebook and Twitter. I'm about 99% sure Windy was the interviewer based on his voice (he's done social media work for the club in the past as well).

 

[Khilari]

Came to this thread hoping for some info on Onomah. Few pages back then, I guess...?

 

[Coyboy]

It was the interview with Dembele and Vertonghen that was posted on Facebook and Twitter. I'm about 99% sure Windy was the interviewer based on his voice (he's done social media work for the club in the past as well).

No I don’t think it was or he does work for the club mate.

 

[EQP]

Came to this thread hoping for some info on Onomah. Few pages back then, I guess...?

Good luck, friend.

Also, for a player that has

* Come through the academy
* Been highly rated through his progression in the academy
* Been selected for several England youth team setups
* Turned down Man City to continue his development with Tottenham
* Never said a bad word about Spurs or exhibited any behavioural or attitude problems
* Won a U20 World Cup
* Requested to go on loan to show his worth and gain more experience
* Struggled with injuries and played under some uninspiring coaches
* Put together some good performances and racked up some decent stats with the respect to the teams he's played for and those managers:

Aston Villa: P33 4Goals 3Assists
Sheffield Wednesday: P11 3Assists​

* The potential to be a really solid CM for us if given the opportunity to show it

why does the mere mention of Onomah and the "possibility" of him getting playing time at Spurs truly sparks tizzy of negativity among some of these SC posters who attempt to come off as "experts" on player potential?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Good luck, friend.

Also, for a player that has

* Come through the academy
* Been highly rated through his progression in the academy
* Been selected for several England youth team setups
* Turned down Man City to continue his development with Tottenham
* Never said a bad word about Spurs or exhibited any behavioural or attitude problems
* Won a U20 World Cup
* Requested to go on loan to show his worth and gain more experience
* Struggled with injuries and played under some uninspiring coaches
* Put together some good performances and racked up some decent stats with the respect to the teams he's played for and those managers:

Aston Villa: P33 4Goals 3Assists
Sheffield Wednesday: P11 3Assists​

* The potential to be a really solid CM for us if given the opportunity to show it

why does the mere mention of Onomah and the "possibility" of him getting playing time at Spurs truly sparks tizzy of negativity among some of these SC posters who attempt to come off as "experts" on player potential?

Nothing sparks off negativity. People try to be realistic to counter views like this which are 85% guesswork. Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Khilari]

People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.

He's never ever performed when given a chance in the Spurs team and out on loan he struggles to get regular game times for crap teams in the Championship.

If we have to recall him because we are that screwed in CM, it's a disgrace and Levy has a lot to answer for.

No offence but isn’t the certainty with which you make your opening statement actually itself a “bit deluded” (unless you actually are a youth football coach and have had the chance to watch him).

Of course you’re likely to be right - but that’s because the odds of a young player making it big, particularly at a top club like Spurs is always low, so chances are you’ll be right.

But isn’t it laughable that fans, who happen to work in IT/finance/construction/sales etc. and as such really have no idea what these players are like in training, in reserve or youth team fixtures and have themselves no real experience of professional sports or coaching elite athletes seem to think we actually really understand what it takes to “make it” as top pros in the future?

Good to have opinions and sharing them is part of a forum, but we should all be a little humble when it comes to airing them. IMO.

 

[EQP]

Nothing sparks off negativity. People try to be realistic to counter views like this which are 85% guesswork. Truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

Does this post below scream anything other than negative?

People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.

He's never ever performed when given a chance in the Spurs team and out on loan he struggles to get regular game times for crap teams in the Championship.

If we have to recall him because we are that screwed in CM, it's a disgrace and Levy has a lot to answer for.

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Does this post below scream anything other than negative?

As I said, it’s no more overly negative than some of these wildly over optimistic and fabricated posts.

“The potential to be a solid CM for us if given the opportunity.”

=

“People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.”

Opposite ends of the scale.

 

[EQP]

As I said, it’s no more overly negative than some of these wildly over optimistic and fabricated posts.

“The potential to be a solid CM for us if given the opportunity.”

=

“People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.”

Opposite ends of the scale.

Optimistic? Sure. What part is fabricated though?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Optimistic? Sure. What part is fabricated though?

- Turned down City
- Put together some good performances while on loan

Blaming uninspiring coaches for his poor performances is subjective as well, can you see why some of that could be red rag to a bull?

 

[Primativ]

Stop.

It would have been great to sign anyone this summer. But, when we started the season, we had: Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, and Skipp was training with the first team. While it was certainly plausible that these players would get injured during the course of the season - it would be unrealisitc to anticipate that Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, and Sissoko would all miss time at the same time.

And, we tried to move Dembele last summer, which would have opened spot for a non-HG player - but we could not get the deal done. We were never going to add a 7th Cm to the mix - particulalry when Dele and/or Eriksen could expect to fill in for a short-term issue.

The injury crisis we are in now - has nothing to do with a failure to spend last summer. By that argument - any player we brought in might also have been injured right now...

No, you stop.

It was common knowledge that we were trying to shift both Dembele and Wanyama last summer. We had no takers, so Dembele stayed an additional 6 months and then we sold him as we finally received an offer and Wanyama still hasn't kicked a ball in anger because he has what the club apparently know is a chronic knee problem.

SO when we strated the new season, it was entirely reasonable to expect Dembele and Wanyama to be completely unreliable. That left us with Sissoko who basically before the summer had barely strung two good performances together and had barely played in CM for Spurs, ever.

I am sorry but if you think going into potentially a 60 game season with 4 senior CM's, two of which are broken and we knew they were broken at the time, is acceptable, well, I can't help you.

 

[The Mourneview Ace]

I don’t think Onomah is or ever will be good enough and I think that the club and the management know that. If they bring him back until the end of the season to be an extra body then fair enough, he can maybe fill in here and there but realistically that’ll be it.

He’s a Championship player, if even.

 

[Johnny J]

People are falling into the same fallacies that made them think Kane could never make it at this level after a few bad loans. It's hard for a young player to look good when he's surrounded by absolute garbage.

Secondly, Onomah is an immensely talented player physically and technically. Mentally and tactically he is raw. It's a matter of experience and maturing with the hope one day it just clicks for him. There is no guarantee that's going to happen, but it's not so improbable as people think.

Also hard for him to look good if we don't give him a chance. In his actual potion.