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Harry Winks - Leicester City

Hotspur33

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2014
1,605
3,908
Remember when Tom Cleverly was at Man United and got a load of stick for playing the same role Winks does now.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
I thought Carrick would have been a top player for England but the reason he only got 34 caps was because he never performed. I cannot remember a match when I thought he had played well. However playing for the best team in England is somewhat easier.

lol - with Caddick in the team rarely would you see a pass or a shot make it anywhere near his own 18 yard box, such was his reading of the game.. it was his defensive work that was most underrated simply because he wasn't a tackler.

It's no coincidence that Robbo went from looking like the best keeper in the world to near zero as soon as we lost Carrick.

Ferguson knew exactly what he was getting when he bought him from us and his roll of honour speaks for itself.

 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
The rejection of Winks criticism is interesting to me. The position he plays is almost unanimously the position most think we need to upgrade yet when someone directly criticizes him posters say they don't know what they're talking about.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
The rejection of Winks criticism is interesting to me. The position he plays is almost unanimously the position most think we need to upgrade yet when someone directly criticizes him posters say they don't know what they're talking about.
Because in said posts criticising they continually demonstrate time and again that it's their expectations that are the problem and continue to use literal factual inaccuracies to criticise.

And in any case, let's not paint everyone with the same uninformed brush. I can only speak for myself, but I've said on a few occassions that Winks is as good as any other young CM around, in other words, all those sexy names that others pine simply because they play elsewhere. If Winks was putting in these performances anywhere else we would all want Spurs to be all over him because he is that good.

IMO what we need is one player to replace Dembele and Wanyama, who is capable of playing alongside Winks, not replace him. Wanting a CM and also correctly believing Winks is the genuine bollocks (because he is) are not mutually exclusive.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
With all due respect I totally know how a player is supposed to play that role.
(snip)
Then why do your posts continue to prove otherwise, including all the garbage that I snipped from this post? You can say that you're one thing, but if you don't actually provide any evidence to support it, then it doesn't really mean anything.

And the other reason I snipped your post is because you predictably just cherry picked and straw manned the bullshit about the KWP pass. Ugh.
 
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BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
If Winks was called Jorginho and cost £57m from serie a in the summer but did the exact same job he’s doing now, he’d be getting far more recognition for his play.
 
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glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
If Winks was called Jorginho and cost £57m from series a in the summer but did the exact same job he’s doing now, he’d be getting far more recognition for his play.
I'm not usually someone who buys into the trite tropes about sexy foreign names and shiny new toy syndrome, but it is absolutely 100% the case when it comes to Harry Winks.
 

Jody

SC Supporter
Sep 11, 2004
7,005
5,824
I suppose the only frustration with Winks is he clearly has that killer pass in his locker - particularly that lovely clipped ball to the RB. Wish he'd use it more often. Even Skipp has shown a bit more ambition in his few cameos with his forward passing. Having said that, I'd build our midfield around Winks. Someone similar to Sissoko who can break the lines but with a bit more end product.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
If Winks was called Jorginho and cost £57m from serie a in the summer but did the exact same job he’s doing now, he’d be getting far more recognition for his play.


Wow, just wow.

You obviously don't watch Jorginho play and I'm amazed 4 people agreed with that post. Jorginho is a miles better deep lying play maker than Winks. It isn't even close. Jorginho is always looking forward with his passes, he completely dictates the play and is at the centre of everything Chelsea do.

Winks does nothing of the sort.

This has absolutely confirmed what I suspected. Winks is so vastly overrated by some on here. The comparison to Jorginho is ridiculous.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Then why do your posts continue to prove otherwise, including all the garbage that I snipped from this post? You can say that you're one thing, but if you don't actually provide any evidence to support it, then it doesn't really mean anything.

And the other reason I snipped your post is because you predictably just cherry picked and straw manned the bullshit about the KWP pass. Ugh.

No, I pointed out quite demonstrably, with the rarity of the KWP example, that Winks passing is nowhere near progressive enough and actually, it's quite laughable he is compared to someone like Jorginho, who is far more progressive with his passing.

Unfortunately, you seem to think Winks is something he isn't. I'm seeing it in this thread with the players he is talked about alongside, Jorginho, Carrick, Modric. People seem to have this notion Winks is some immense DPLM, he simply isn't.

It seems the general consensus on these forums that CM is by far the weakest area in our team, yet in the same sentence people talk to me like I'm mad for not thinking Winks is good enough. Which is it? I'll clear it up for you, Winks unfortunately is a very tidy young player, but doesn't offer enough to be a consistent starter in our first 11.

He is the first name on the team sheet which needs upgrading. In my mind, a matter of urgency. Do you not agree that CM is the weakest part of our side? And if you do, which player should make way? If you do agree that CM is the weakest area of our side, then surely you are agreeing with me that Winks doesn't offer enough.

Lastly, if you don't think CM is the weakest area of our team, then it is you who knows nothing about football.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
8,958
28,086
Winks is a decent player and is a superb option for us to have in the squad - even better that he is a kid from our academy. Do I think he is going to be a permanent fixture in our midfield going forward? Not necessarily but I think he will get a lot of games and he will mature and improve. We do need another midfielder clearly but I don't think that is any slight on Winks.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
8,958
28,086
No, I pointed out quite demonstrably, with the rarity of the KWP example, that Winks passing is nowhere near progressive enough and actually, it's quite laughable he is compared to someone like Jorginho, who is far more progressive with his passing.

Unfortunately, you seem to think Winks is something he isn't. I'm seeing it in this thread with the players he is talked about alongside, Jorginho, Carrick, Modric. People seem to have this notion Winks is some immense DPLM, he simply isn't.

It seems the general consensus on these forums that CM is by far the weakest area in our team, yet in the same sentence people talk to me like I'm mad for not thinking Winks is good enough. Which is it? I'll clear it up for you, Winks unfortunately is a very tidy young player, but doesn't offer enough to be a consistent starter in our first 11.

He is the first name on the team sheet which needs upgrading. In my mind, a matter of urgency. Do you not agree that CM is the weakest part of our side? And if you do, which player should make way? If you do agree that CM is the weakest area of our side, then surely you are agreeing with me that Winks doesn't offer enough.

Lastly, if you don't think CM is the weakest area of our team, then it is you who knows nothing about football.

People say we need another CM because right now we only have Winks and Sissoko - Dembele and Wanyama could be finished - Dier is a decent option but not exactly somebody to build a midfield around. So really we have 3 senior midfielders available to us regularly once Dier comes back. That clearly is not enough for the squad. You seem to be focusing on Winks not being good enough as the reason we need another CM when in reality it is nothing to do with Winks. Right now we are bloody fortunate to have a talented midfielder like Winks available to us because without him we would be absolutely stuffed.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
I thought Carrick would have been a top player for England but the reason he only got 34 caps was because he never performed. I cannot remember a match when I thought he had played well. However playing for the best team in England is somewhat easier.

Exactly. Teams played differently then as well. The 'press' hadn't been invented and 442 was the go to set up. It seems to me that Winks probably does exactly what Poch asks him to do to the best of his ability which is a huge asset but one which poeple often call him out for. At the moment I can quite safely say that I'm not missing the 'Dier 50 yard attempted pass going straight out of play or to an opponent 9 times out of 10' element to our play.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
People say we need another CM because right now we only have Winks and Sissoko - Dembele and Wanyama could be finished - Dier is a decent option but not exactly somebody to build a midfield around. So really we have 3 senior midfielders available to us regularly once Dier comes back. That clearly is not enough for the squad. You seem to be focusing on Winks not being good enough as the reason we need another CM when in reality it is nothing to do with Winks.

It is everything to do with Winks, because when I watch him play, I don't see a player who is doing enough in a Spurs shirt to keep his place unfortunately. He leaves us a bit short in that position.

I agree with you, a good young player who hopefully will continue to improve, and one day he may be good enough to be a regular and even makes the position his own, but I'm not seeing enough from him in that role.

With Sissoko, with his limitations in mind, having a stand out season and generally hugely impacting our game play from both an offensive and defensive perspective, it only leaves Winks as the player who is clearly upgradable.

Winks is a rotation option but asking to be a first choice there for us is still beyond him. He should learn the game from the bench, and come in when injuries and suspensions hit. I firmly believe this is what Poch thinks as well, hence why we will (hopefully) spend a large transfer fee on signing a CM either now or in the summer.
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
Wow, just wow.

You obviously don't watch Jorginho play and I'm amazed 4 people agreed with that post. Jorginho is a miles better deep lying play maker than Winks. It isn't even close. Jorginho is always looking forward with his passes, he completely dictates the play and is at the centre of everything Chelsea do.

Winks does nothing of the sort.

This has absolutely confirmed what I suspected. Winks is so vastly overrated by some on here. The comparison to Jorginho is ridiculous.
yes but that's by design. Jorginho is the only Chelsea midfielder capable of dictating play through his passing and vision. Here we have Eriksen, Alli and Lamela that always play with their heads up looking to play that killer ball. Winks keeps it simple to balance out the squad and not get in the other players way.

Can improve yes, of course, but we have to remember this is his first full season in his professional career. He should only get stronger under Poch's guidance.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Exactly. Teams played differently then as well. The 'press' hadn't been invented and 442 was the go to set up. It seems to me that Winks probably does exactly what Poch asks him to do to the best of his ability which is a huge asset but one which poeple often call him out for. At the moment I can quite safely say that I'm not missing the 'Dier 50 yard attempted pass going straight out of play or to an opponent 9 times out of 10' element to our play.


Both Dier and Winks have their limitations, pros and cons. Neither are the answer going forward, both squad options.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Oct 1, 2005
8,958
28,086
It is everything to do with Winks, because when I watch him play, I don't see a player who is doing enough in a Spurs shirt to keep his place unfortunately. He leaves us a bit short in that position.

I agree with you, a good young player who hopefully will continue to improve, and one day he may be good enough to be a regular and even makes the position his own, but I'm not seeing enough from him in that role.

With Sissoko, with his limitations in mind, having a stand out season and generally hugely impacting our game play from both an offensive and defensive perspective, it only leaves Winks as the player who is clearly upgradable.

Winks is a rotation option but asking to be a first choice there for us is still beyond him. He should learn the game from the bench, and come in when injuries and suspensions hit. I firmly believe this is what Poch thinks as well, hence why we will (hopefully) spend a large transfer fee on signing a CM either now or in the summer.

Sorry it's nothing to do with Winks - even if Winks was a total worldy and one of the best in his position around Europe we would still need to spend cash and bring in another midfielder because we are short in that position. That is my point.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
yes but that's by design. Jorginho is the only Chelsea midfielder capable of dictating play through his passing and vision. Here we have Eriksen, Alli and Lamela that always play with their heads up looking to play that killer ball. Winks keeps it simple to balance out the squad and not get in the other players way.

Can improve yes, of course, but we have to remember this is his first full season in his professional career. He should only get stronger under Poch's guidance.


I struggle with this, a DLPM should just keep it simple? No. It seems a tremendous waste of a key position in the side, to have a CM who is instructed to just keep it simple. In that case, why don't we play a big strong destroyer in there like a Wanyama, who can also keep it simple but with the added bonus of absolutely being able to contribute to the defensive solidity of the team, unlike Winks.

It seems people excuse Winks limitations by saying he's under instruction. To me that's a huge get out. When I see us play, I see players who are generally allowed to express themselves, within the defined limits of their roles. If this key position in the side is really all about keeping possession and playing it simple for 99% of the time, which is what Winks is applauded on here for doing, then I'd like to see us spend some money on an absolutely top class DM, who is able to keep it simple, but with the added bonus of being an excellent defensive midfielder, with good physicality who can bully and harass the opponents because never in a million years should one out of two places in key central midfield, just be about keeping it simple. You need to offer more than that in either an attacking or defensive perspective, and Winks does neither. Alternatively, Dier walks back into the side as a player who under instruction keeps it simple but offers far more defensive solidity than Winks.
 
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