Player Watch Player Watch: Harry Winks

-Afri-Coy-

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Because that's his role.

That isn't necessarily the same for Winks.
Winks and Ndombele have the skill set to make these passes, the movement ahead of them seems to be the issue. Of course Ndombele is more of a deep lying playmaker than Winks, but in a fluid team such as ours Winks can pass the ball really well and towards the final third too, but there are no runs being made. This can be for a number of reasons, first game of the season, players holding their energy levels for the full 90 minutes, preseason rust etc but the point still stands, against Villa we lacked forward movement off the ball.

I know Winks job is to keep the ball moving and to help us transition between defense and attack, and not necessarily make incisive passes forward but I think he could manage it if the players ahead of him were making intelligent runs.

It can be frustrating when we transition from defense to midfield fairly quickly then we labor to get the ball into the final third, giving teams a chance to regroup and defend in numbers.

If we do indeed end up losing Eriksen, the bulk of our creativity as a team will come from the middle of the park. So Winks, Lo Celso and Ndombele will have to make up for his passing and vision collectively. This will be impossible if the players ahead of them don't make the runs and movement needed to unsettle and disband a stubborn defense. We will once again revert to crossing the ball into the box, and that's not how we are going to win any titles.

This has happened on a few occasions (mostly beginning of the season I'll admit) and I really think it's something we can work on and improve. Which is incredible, because we are playing at such a high level that we have to find small issues to improve upon because we play so well as it is.
 

Japhet

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That's all Rodri seemed to do for Atletico last season, yet City paid over 60m for him. Busquets too at Barca.

Winks is quality. Teams need players like Winksy.

Don't think it really occurs to people but, IMO, Winks does exactly what Poch asks him to do. It may well be the case that if he suddenly started trying to zip 40m through balls or started dribbling up the pitch from his position, Poch might give it to him in the neck. I never see Poch having a go at him, so I assume he's doing what he's told.
 

SlotBadger

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Nah but my EYES are telling me he doesngt pass forwards and only passes backwards and only passes sideways and my eyes are the best because theyre mine and i dont need no stats to tell me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards because my eyes told me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards and my eyes are more reliable than facts because i know football and in football harry winks only passes sideways and he only passes bakwards and my eyes told me he does
Pies.png
 

smallsnc

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Nah but my EYES are telling me he doesngt pass forwards and only passes backwards and only passes sideways and my eyes are the best because theyre mine and i dont need no stats to tell me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards because my eyes told me that he only passes sideways and he only passes backwards and my eyes are more reliable than facts because i know football and in football harry winks only passes sideways and he only passes bakwards and my eyes told me he does
Get a good pair of eye glasses!
 

-Afri-Coy-

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Its amazing people don't understand players' roles in the team. They are two totally different players, playing in different positions.
The post he replied too (my post) wasn't in relation to roles on the field, it was specifically written around the minimal movement of our forwards during the game. This has nothing to do with player roles, rather how we transition from defense to midfield to attack.

I did go on to mention that the movement from defense to midfield is quick and incisive yet we seem to stumble moving the ball forward to attack. So Winks is actually not the problem here, our flat footed movement up top seems to stifle us in midfield because Winks has no option then but to distribute the ball out wide or sideways to Sissoko/Ndombele.

If given the chance, I think Winks could move the ball forward and split defenses where possible, but the off the ball movement has to be there from Moura/Lamela to create these spaces and opportunities for him to do so.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

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His passing may not be the most direct or progressive at times but that's not because he's naturally risk adverse or incapable of producing these passes, it's because when we're playing against sides who are content with a point and defend extremely deep we need to move the ball, with the aim of tiring them until they break, not lumping the ball up top at every opportunity.
Nailed it.
 

Gilzeanking

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If given the chance, I think Winks could move the ball forward and split defenses where possible, but the off the ball movement has to be there from Moura/Lamela to create these spaces and opportunities for him to do so.
I agree with your points, but don't understand why Kane has been left out of this . I found his movement lacking on Sat and as for his CL Final movement....
 

-Afri-Coy-

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I agree with your points, but don't understand why Kane has been left out of this . I found his movement lacking on Sat and as for his CL Final movement....
Generally Kane staying central will occupy both CB's of the opposition team, which is why I feel his movement is not as necessary as Moura and Lamela to stretch the width of the defense, but I do agree that his movement through the middle has been off since the Delph incident. He does however make up for it in other areas of the pitch so I won't hold that against him.

But I expect to see runs off the shoulder of defenders from Moura and Lamela to stretch the defense even more and to run onto forward passes from Ndombele and Winks. Our problem is they both tend to drift towards the middle, which gives us 3 players all trying to occupy the same area. That's what made us look stagnant on the pitch.

Villa did however defend really tight and didn't allow us space to work with, but that's where we need to be more creative off the ball.

Winks is unbelievable at his role and I wouldn't want to replace him in the team because he's that good and he is one of our own.
 

spursfan77

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The post he replied too (my post) wasn't in relation to roles on the field, it was specifically written around the minimal movement of our forwards during the game. This has nothing to do with player roles, rather how we transition from defense to midfield to attack.

I did go on to mention that the movement from defense to midfield is quick and incisive yet we seem to stumble moving the ball forward to attack. So Winks is actually not the problem here, our flat footed movement up top seems to stifle us in midfield because Winks has no option then but to distribute the ball out wide or sideways to Sissoko/Ndombele.

If given the chance, I think Winks could move the ball forward and split defenses where possible, but the off the ball movement has to be there from Moura/Lamela to create these spaces and opportunities for him to do so.
Agree. Its been a problem for a while. It is why I like Dele playing because he is always on the move.
 

chinaman

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Hoddle once said that he’d play the pass to where he wanted the forwards to run, and then the forwards would be forced to make the runs.
Agree absolutely. Remember Waddle, until he teamed up with Hoddle, used to dribble to nowhere. When he came to us, Hoddle played all those long, raking passes out to the right wing where Waddle could only reach running at top speed to the bye-line where the only thing he could do was crossing to the centre where Allen did the rest. Hod judged those passes to perfection, even taking Waddle's speed into calculation, and afforded him no time to dilly-dally with the ball.
 
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swarvsta

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It’s quite funny really. You can go down Hackney Marshes every Sunday and watch almost every player attempting a forward pass every single time.

Better players totally understand the need to keep the ball moving, and knowing the best pass is not always forwards.

I rewatched the game on TV last night and saw Winks play at least 5 forward thinking passes. He barely gave the ball away at all.

Definitely people have got a pre-conceived idea about his play.

The sort of thing you hear a bloke down the pub say.... “Ohh he’s shit, he just passes sideways and backwards.....I could go in there and do that!!!”

No. No you couldn’t.
 

Gassin's finest

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It’s quite funny really. You can go down Hackney Marshes every Sunday and watch almost every player attempting a forward pass every single time.

Better players totally understand the need to keep the ball moving, and knowing the best pass is not always forwards.

I rewatched the game on TV last night and saw Winks play at least 5 forward thinking passes. He barely gave the ball away at all.

Definitely people have got a pre-conceived idea about his play.

The sort of thing you hear a bloke down the pub say.... “Ohh he’s shit, he just passes sideways and backwards.....I could go in there and do that!!!”

No. No you couldn’t.
A term that you hardly hear anyone use, but I remember it being so key when I played at Uni, was "recycle". When there isn't a clear and obvious opportunity on, or you're being pressured, you just recycle the ball to a free team mate. You "recycle" possession.

You don't just whack it forward as you'll likely just lose possession. And you sure as shit don't dither on the ball in your own half, as you'll likely catch your whole team out.

Its especially frustrating when its Spurs fans who don't appreciate this, seeing as it was this club who developed the bloody thing here, before going and teaching it to half of Europe.
 

cliff jones

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I do agree that Winks is great and constrained by Poch instructions, much asDembele used to be.

The run that usually catches out the two banks of four is from deeper, which is how City do it and Wenger used to, overloading the flanks

I can’t see who our runners are though in the formation we’ve started Inter and Villa

Poch needs to loosen the chains for Winks to bomb on two or three times per game, he’s got the pace
 
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