What's new

Harry Winks - Leicester City

Spursfan1414

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2015
334
1,574
Winks makes far more forward passes than people are giving him credit for, several times in the game yesterday he was actively looking to pass forward and couldn't due to a lack of options, which you could see him visibly complain about after.

I remember exactly the same criticisms being made of Carrick and Modric at times about playing sideways and backwards passes. That's just the nature of the position if you're the deepest midfielder and charged with recycling possession then a lot of the time your best option is to go backwards or sideways to the full backs, there's nothing wrong with that. He was easily our best player in the first half against Villa and was a large part of the reason that we were able to sustain pressure on the edge of their box effectively in the time he was on.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
That is an indirect comparison. Basically suggesting that people who don't see what he brings were the same about Modric and Carrick. It's totally wrong. Carrick and Modric oozed class from the get go basically. Both went on to have absolutely huge careers winning everything in sight in multipel title winning sides.


Winks isn't in the same league as those two, and he won't ever be, I'm sure of it. He just doesn't possess the talent of either of them. Any manager would and did build their team around Modric and Carrick. Do you think we would even build the team around Winks at Spurs? We are debating whether he should even be in the side.

I question what people see in Winks that they saw in those obscenely gifted CMs. It's completely rose tinted specs. He's more Scott Parker than Modric/Carrick.

I'm sure Nicdic is comparing the situation as in people didn't understand what Carrick and Modric's role is rather than saying Winks is another Carrick or Modric.

niesta? Oh please.

You've done the same here, no one in their right mind is comparing Winks to Iniesta, Carrick or Modric - it's the fact that people don't understand his game and expect things of him that he's not in the team for, These players were often criticised for lack of assists therefore they are underrated for what they actually do, like Winks.
 

Gassin's finest

C'est diabolique
May 12, 2010
37,353
87,819
Anyway, lets do this:





Bear in mind that we are comparing 22 y/o Winks to a peak Modric, and that they are playing in different systems... but you can see similarities, and you can see the projected evolution.
 

Trotter

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2009
2,169
3,312
I'm not comparing him to them per se, rather commenting on the fact that like those two, he is criminally underrated by a significant proportion of Spurs fans.

And as for your second point, it was a surprise to many that they got those moves, and was only after they'd left that some realised what they brought to the table.

I assume you will reply to my post, or will it be a case of burying the head in the sand when challenged ?
 

Kingellesar

This is the way
May 2, 2005
8,706
9,209
I always though Carrick was a play it side ways type of player for us, he got better after he left.

Or he joined a team with better players around him allowing him to play to his ability more?

Winks is a great player, the only concern I have over him is fitness, can he go the whole season and not pick up another injury, I really hope so as he is so key to the way we need to play in the bigger games. He absolutely bossed the midfield when we beat City in the CL first leg last year. I do find it funny how other fans seem to severely underate him though, mainly because he is English. I think he is a great player.

I think Ndombele will help his game massively as he will look to take the ball in midfield allowing winks to do what he does best and not have to try and be a complete midfielder, think we will see a much more disciplined version of him this season. Which is a good thing as he is not attack minded like a Lampard/Gerrard.
 

Tottenhamboy85

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2018
2,501
7,877
@Rob can all the player thread be moved back into spurs chat now the games have started?

Want to talk about certain players but can’t
 

RichieS

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2004
11,916
16,436
Anyway, lets do this:





Bear in mind that we are comparing 22 y/o Winks to a peak Modric, and that they are playing in different systems... but you can see similarities, and you can see the projected evolution.

Man, last season's shirt was shit.

Or he joined a team with better players around him allowing him to play to his ability more?

Winks is a great player, the only concern I have over him is fitness, can he go the whole season and not pick up another injury, I really hope so as he is so key to the way we need to play in the bigger games. He absolutely bossed the midfield when we beat City in the CL first leg last year. I do find it funny how other fans seem to severely underate him though, mainly because he is English. I think he is a great player.

I think Ndombele will help his game massively as he will look to take the ball in midfield allowing winks to do what he does best and not have to try and be a complete midfielder, think we will see a much more disciplined version of him this season. Which is a good thing as he is not attack minded like a Lampard/Gerrard.
In my view, basically every niggle he's had has been related to him getting over the horrible ankle injury he suffered at the back end of 16/17. He's had a few weeks off and a full pre-season now so hopefully he's set up properly now.
 

AnotherSpursFan

Well-Known Member
Dec 4, 2006
1,799
1,778
Winks makes far more forward passes than people are giving him credit for, several times in the game yesterday he was actively looking to pass forward and couldn't due to a lack of options, which you could see him visibly complain about after.

I remember exactly the same criticisms being made of Carrick and Modric at times about playing sideways and backwards passes. That's just the nature of the position if you're the deepest midfielder and charged with recycling possession then a lot of the time your best option is to go backwards or sideways to the full backs, there's nothing wrong with that. He was easily our best player in the first half against Villa and was a large part of the reason that we were able to sustain pressure on the edge of their box effectively in the time he was on.

Luka Modric passes back only when he needs to
Winks passes back out of habit, no one was breathing down his neck yet a back pass??? joke..

Luka Modric would makes himsef available after a back pass. He is constantly demanding for the ball. He wants to dictate play.
Winks would play a backpass and you could see he is visibly relieved after doing so, steping aside to let the centre back dictate play.

Luka Modric can dribble consistently, play those fast one twos, and is always under control even in tight situation. He does all that each and every game.
Winks only dribble instintively, the highlight against Aston Villa being the case in point, wait another 20 games for something similar from him.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
I assume you will reply to my post, or will it be a case of burying the head in the sand when challenged ?
I didn't reply because I can't be bothered to waste my time with someone who quite clearly doesn't watch the game in front of them.

I gave you a disagree because I disagreed with pretty much every assessment of Winks that you made. I don't need to explain each one, and I won't, because I doubt it will change your mind, and I can't be bothered to waste my time.

Sorry it got to you so much.
 

rightwayup

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
351
1,232
Glenn Hoddle in his prime would have struggled to pick out passes in the first half to the front 3, who were not only static but sat on top of each other.
 

eViL

Oliver Skipp's Dad
May 15, 2004
5,840
7,960
Luka Modric passes back only when he needs to
Winks passes back out of habit, no one was breathing down his neck yet a back pass??? joke..

Luka Modric would makes himsef available after a back pass. He is constantly demanding for the ball. He wants to dictate play.
Winks would play a backpass and you could see he is visibly relieved after doing so, steping aside to let the centre back dictate play.

Luka Modric can dribble consistently, play those fast one twos, and is always under control even in tight situation. He does all that each and every game.
Winks only dribble instintively, the highlight against Aston Villa being the case in point, wait another 20 games for something similar from him.

Great observations on the comparison - you only got the last sentence wrong.

For me, again, it's an England thing. Passing for the sake of passing, no pressure, no need to pass backwards. Dier does it. Dele does it. Trippier did it. Kane not so much. When any of these guys first broke into the team they were ALWAYS looking to play forwards at every opportunity.

Modric would just keep moving forward with the ball until there was an opportunity to advance with a pass. Otherwise he'd keep it. Winks needs to go back to when he first started getting in the team; his passing was extremely aggressive.

Surely the coaching and analysis teams are seeing this though eh?
 
Last edited:

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
I always though Carrick was a play it side ways type of player for us, he got better after he left.


Absolutely agree with you. In fact I was very critical of him making all those cross-field side-ways passes as he had a very pronounced backlift to it; and I was saying that he telegraphed to the opposing defenders what he wanted to do, and that many of those passes were read and cut off by his opponents.
 

BringBack_leGin

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2004
27,719
54,929
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.
 

Spursfan1414

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2015
334
1,574
Luka Modric passes back only when he needs to
Winks passes back out of habit, no one was breathing down his neck yet a back pass??? joke..

Luka Modric would makes himsef available after a back pass. He is constantly demanding for the ball. He wants to dictate play.
Winks would play a backpass and you could see he is visibly relieved after doing so, steping aside to let the centre back dictate play.

Luka Modric can dribble consistently, play those fast one twos, and is always under control even in tight situation. He does all that each and every game.
Winks only dribble instintively, the highlight against Aston Villa being the case in point, wait another 20 games for something similar from him.

So much that I disagree with here. Winks doesn't pass back out of habit, he does it because it's the best option, if there's a specific instance you're talking about then it'd be a lot easier if you could say what it is, otherwise I can't do much more than say I think you're wrong on that.

Winks never hides from the ball and I think it's pretty ludicrous to suggest that he did so when WhoScored have him down as having the most accurate passes of any player in the league in the first set of games. That's hardly the mark of a midfielder who doesn't want the ball. I was at the stadium on Saturday and I saw him demanding the ball and ripping into players for not giving him options to pass forward several times, I don't know when you saw this supposed "visible relief" when he passed back to our CBs but it's not what I saw at all. You can't pass forwards when there's no-one ahead of you who's free to receive a pass, our movement upfront was crap for most of the time Winks was on the pitch, blaming him for not getting the ball to the forward players is completely backwards, the issue was with them, not Winks.
 

McFlash

In the corner, eating crayons.
Oct 19, 2005
12,740
45,363
Too many fans only noticed Carrick, when he wasn't on the pitch.

Although Winks is a different player, I know many fans that don't rate him.
He's still got areas to improve but he's still young enough. There aren't many better players of the same age imo.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
Fun facts: Winks (who also came off on the 64th minute) played the second most long passes (8) after Alderweireld (10) and also had the joint most overall passes (82) with Alderweireld (83), but the highest pass completion of any outfield player who started the match (96.3). He lost possession once, despite having the joint most touches (90) with Alderweireld.

Of his 83 passes, 43 were forwards, bettered by all of our defenders but nobody else.

He also managed the joint most key passes of our four midfielders (2) with Lamela, with Sissoko and Ndombele managing one each.
Even funner stat, Winks completed the most passes of any player on the opening weekend of the season, and only played 64 minutes.
 
Top