Player Watch Player Watch: Harry Winks

Primativ

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yes but that's by design. Jorginho is the only Chelsea midfielder capable of dictating play through his passing and vision. Here we have Eriksen, Alli and Lamela that always play with their heads up looking to play that killer ball. Winks keeps it simple to balance out the squad and not get in the other players way.

Can improve yes, of course, but we have to remember this is his first full season in his professional career. He should only get stronger under Poch's guidance.

I struggle with this, a DLPM should just keep it simple? No. It seems a tremendous waste of a key position in the side, to have a CM who is instructed to just keep it simple. In that case, why don't we play a big strong destroyer in there like a Wanyama, who can also keep it simple but with the added bonus of absolutely being able to contribute to the defensive solidity of the team, unlike Winks.

It seems people excuse Winks limitations by saying he's under instruction. To me that's a huge get out. When I see us play, I see players who are generally allowed to express themselves, within the defined limits of their roles. If this key position in the side is really all about keeping possession and playing it simple for 99% of the time, which is what Winks is applauded on here for doing, then I'd like to see us spend some money on an absolutely top class DM, who is able to keep it simple, but with the added bonus of being an excellent defensive midfielder, with good physicality who can bully and harass the opponents because never in a million years should one out of two places in key central midfield, just be about keeping it simple. You need to offer more than that in either an attacking or defensive perspective, and Winks does neither. Alternatively, Dier walks back into the side as a player who under instruction keeps it simple but offers far more defensive solidity than Winks.
 

Primativ

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Jorginho is 27.
In five years time
with normal progress
Winks will be as good
if not better.
We don't have 5 years to wait around in case he might be good enough. We need better in that position now. He can learn from the benches but not as a starter, not right now.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
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I struggle with this, a DLPM should just keep it simple? No. It seems a tremendous waste of a key position in the side, to have a CM who is instructed to just keep it simple. In that case, why don't we play a big strong destroyer in there like a Wanyama, who can also keep it simple but with the added bonus of absolutely being able to contribute to the defensive solidity of the team, unlike Winks.

It seems people excuse Winks limitations by saying he's under instruction. To me that's a huge get out. When I see us play, I see players who are generally allowed to express themselves, within the defined limits of their roles. If this key position in the side is really all about keeping possession and playing it simple for 99% of the time, which is what Winks is applauded on here for doing, then I'd like to see us spend some money on an absolutely top class DM, who is able to keep it simple, but with the added bonus of being an excellent defensive midfielder, with good physicality who can bully and harass the opponents because never in a million years should one out of two places in key central midfield, just be about keeping it simple. You need to offer more than that in either an attacking or defensive perspective, and Winks does neither. Alternatively, Dier walks back into the side as a player who under instruction keeps it simple but offers far more defensive solidity than Winks.
Not sure why you don't see it but I'll try and explain. Currently we have no fit DM. Winks is being asked to play DM as we have no other option. As a result he has been instructed to keep it tight, don't lose the ball and keep it moving. If once Dier returns and plays DM then I would be sure that Winks will then be asked to play further up the field and to be more expressive in his passing because then he will have a DM sitting behind him offering that stability.

What you are seeing is a player filling in as DM and being instructed to be careful. He is doing that job well.
 

kmk

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Wow, just wow.

You obviously don't watch Jorginho play and I'm amazed 4 people agreed with that post. Jorginho is a miles better deep lying play maker than Winks. It isn't even close. Jorginho is always looking forward with his passes, he completely dictates the play and is at the centre of everything Chelsea do.

Winks does nothing of the sort.

This has absolutely confirmed what I suspected. Winks is so vastly overrated by some on here. The comparison to Jorginho is ridiculous.
You keep saying that the comparison between Winks & Jorginho is ridiculous.

Yet Winks is 4 years younger than Jorginho. At the same age, Jorginho was playing for Verona.

Jorginho made his debut for his country when he was 25. Winks was only 21.

Do you even know how Jorginho was playing at the age of 22 before dismissing Winks?
 
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wrd

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The rejection of Winks criticism is interesting to me. The position he plays is almost unanimously the position most think we need to upgrade yet when someone directly criticizes him posters say they don't know what they're talking about.
Most of us agreed we needed Martial or Zaha in the summer, doesn't mean we don't think highly of Son, Kane and Dele, just want different options and a top quality cm, Winks is developing. It's why I was against Grealish as I didn't see the point in another "potential" player.
 

allpaths

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I struggle with this, a DLPM should just keep it simple? No. It seems a tremendous waste of a key position in the side, to have a CM who is instructed to just keep it simple. In that case, why don't we play a big strong destroyer in there like a Wanyama, who can also keep it simple but with the added bonus of absolutely being able to contribute to the defensive solidity of the team, unlike Winks.

It seems people excuse Winks limitations by saying he's under instruction. To me that's a huge get out. When I see us play, I see players who are generally allowed to express themselves, within the defined limits of their roles. If this key position in the side is really all about keeping possession and playing it simple for 99% of the time, which is what Winks is applauded on here for doing, then I'd like to see us spend some money on an absolutely top class DM, who is able to keep it simple, but with the added bonus of being an excellent defensive midfielder, with good physicality who can bully and harass the opponents because never in a million years should one out of two places in key central midfield, just be about keeping it simple. You need to offer more than that in either an attacking or defensive perspective, and Winks does neither. Alternatively, Dier walks back into the side as a player who under instruction keeps it simple but offers far more defensive solidity than Winks.
I dont think it's ok for Winks to stay that player that plays it safe. But it isnt fair to compare him to Jorginho a player whose been tasked with Chelsea's key creative role, were Winks has more senior options in front of him in Alli and Eriksen who are two of the most progressive midfielders in the league.

I'd be disappointed in 2-3 seasons time if Winks continues to play within himself. He has the ability and manager for his more dynamic side to work it's way into his game.
 

Primativ

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You keep saying that the comparison between Winks & Jorginho is ridiculous.

Yet Winks is 4 years older than Jorginho. At the same age, Jorginho was playing for Verona.

Jorginho made his debut for his country when he was 25. Winks was only 21.

Do you even know how Jorginho was playing at the age of 22 before dismissing Winks?

That wasn't what was said. What was said was if Winks cost 57 million and was called Jorginho, i.e. now in the present day not in 5 years time, we would all be amazed at Winks ability. That is exactly what the poster was suggesting, and it's rubbish. If we signed Winks for 57 million I'd be going crazy that we wasted all that money.

Winks is miles off Jorginho's level, let's not rewrite what was posted now! It is complete fantasy to speculate whether Winks ever does or doesn't reach Jorginho's level. Winks could be playing for Wolves in midtable in 5 years, but in 2019, the comparison is way off.
 

Primativ

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I'd be disappointed in 2-3 seasons time if Winks continues to play within himself. He has the ability and manager for his more dynamic side to work it's way into his game.
If Winks does indeed stop playing within himself and becomes more dynamic, that would be excellent and I'll change my opinion.
 

Japhet

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Not sure why you don't see it but I'll try and explain. Currently we have no fit DM. Winks is being asked to play DM as we have no other option. As a result he has been instructed to keep it tight, don't lose the ball and keep it moving. If once Dier returns and plays DM then I would be sure that Winks will then be asked to play further up the field and to be more expressive in his passing because then he will have a DM sitting behind him offering that stability.

What you are seeing is a player filling in as DM and being instructed to be careful. He is doing that job well.

An excellent attempt at explaining the situation to somebody who has their fingers in their ears going 'Lalalalalala'.
 

BringBack_leGin

Audere est facere
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Wow, just wow.

You obviously don't watch Jorginho play and I'm amazed 4 people agreed with that post. Jorginho is a miles better deep lying play maker than Winks. It isn't even close. Jorginho is always looking forward with his passes, he completely dictates the play and is at the centre of everything Chelsea do.

Winks does nothing of the sort.

This has absolutely confirmed what I suspected. Winks is so vastly overrated by some on here. The comparison to Jorginho is ridiculous.
Jorginho is 27.
In five years time
with normal progress
Winks will be as good
if not better.
Jimmy has responded for me. However, I do think you are basing your opinion on Jorginho in Napoli in the slow paced Serie A, because Chelsea’s version has been very much the player you describe Winks as being.

We don't have 5 years to wait around in case he might be good enough. We need better in that position now. He can learn from the benches but not as a starter, not right now.
How does a player improve to the level required without getting top level game time?

You keep saying that the comparison between Winks & Jorginho is ridiculous.

Yet Winks is 4 years younger than Jorginho. At the same age, Jorginho was playing for Verona.

Jorginho made his debut for his country when he was 25. Winks was only 21.

Do you even know how Jorginho was playing at the age of 22 before dismissing Winks?
Exactly this. I would add that at22, in his first 18 months for us, Modric was primarily a sideways and backwards ball recycler who occasionally burst forward and was pushed off the ball to easily. Fast forward to that wonderful week in April after the FA cup semi defeat to Portsmouth and almost overnight something clicked and Modric’s ascent to being the world’s best central midfielder took off. I’m not saying Winks will ever reach this level, only that he is so far doing a good job in the position on the pitch where players need more game time and experience than any other to fulfill their potential. This is largely evidenced by how high up the table we are in a bloody competitive league... you don’t do that with a substandard engine room.
 

Charly***

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I thought Carrick would have been a top player for England but the reason he only got 34 caps was because he never performed. I cannot remember a match when I thought he had played well. However playing for the best team in England is somewhat easier.
Sven went for the bigger names & never really got a decent balance in the middle. Carrick & Scholes in there could've controlled games. i.m.o. I agree Carrick didn't perform but getting the odd game here & there then being taken out didn't help, he was the kind of player you need to build your team around, from a tactical perspective but Sven built his team around a superstar perspective. Plus they were a bit cliquey then, not like these days where the lack of that is refreshing.
 

stevenqoz

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Thinking back a few seasons we unexpectedly had Huddlestone and Modric playing as a central two...very successful for a while. Seeing Winks alongside Sissoko and doing well reminds me of that time where we made best of what we had available. To me Winks is having a fine season and has successfully undertaken the various jobs gives to him. His performance in Barca convinced me of his worth. Seems some of our supporters have a 'cringe' when it comes to home developed product, Get over it
 

Charly***

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Thinking back a few seasons we unexpectedly had Huddlestone and Modric playing as a central two...very successful for a while. Seeing Winks alongside Sissoko and doing well reminds me of that time where we made best of what we had available. To me Winks is having a fine season and has successfully undertaken the various jobs gives to him. His performance in Barca convinced me of his worth. Seems some of our supporters have a 'cringe' when it comes to home developed product, Get over it
Those two were great together until Huddlestone got the long injury & he was never the same afterwards. & agree it was a bit of an accidental pairing or one that wouldn't have been tried with other options available possibly like our current pair.
 

Shadydan

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JimmyG2

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That Harry Kane
he' ll never make a footballer,
bloody Academy upstart.

Primativ seems to be caught
in the same trap.
Can't be any good
because he cost us nothing
because he's not a foreign 'ace'
that will cost us 50 million minimum.

Fine young man
International and first team player at 21.
Recovering well from a
career threatening injury
OOOO so GOHB*
Get off his back.

Am I biased?
of course I'm bloody biased.
My dream is an all Academy team
with Winks and Skipp in midfield.
Starting on Friday night.

Do I know a decent footballer
when I see one?.
Check my posts.
on Kane Modric Eriksen Dele Rose
from the very beginning
of their Spurs careers.
You betcha.
 

glospur

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His performance in Barca convinced me of his worth. Seems some of our supporters have a 'cringe' when it comes to home developed product, Get over it
This is actually important.

A lot of people .. well, one person ... seems to actually use it as a negative that people cling onto one or two performances and it blinds them, but seriously, how many 22 year old CMs have gone away to the two biggest and best club sides in the world, and not only held their own, but actually came out of it having earned rave reviews? And Winks' home game against Madrid was pretty bloody impressive as well.

These aren't to be dismissed, and more than all the others combined these games confirm that he is a genuinely special young midfielder.
 

Charly***

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This is actually important.

A lot of people .. well, one person ... seems to actually use it as a negative that people cling onto one or two performances and it blinds them, but seriously, how many 22 year old CMs have gone away to the two biggest and best club sides in the world, and not only held their own, but actually came out of it having earned rave reviews? And Winks' home game against Madrid was pretty bloody impressive as well.

These aren't to be dismissed, and more than all the others combined these games confirm that he is a genuinely special young midfielder.
A bit more space and time in those games i guess, that's not a negative, it bodes well for his future as he improves further, the prem is a war in the middle of the pitch at times.
 

DJS

A hunter must hunt...
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Winks has also been cracking for England couple of games he's started - made the team a lot more dynamic and creative when he's been in the team.

Meaning hopefully once we get Dier back he might be able to get a bit further up.

Also, something else that came to mind is he's doing a very good and professional job playing as our holder as needed at the moment, something which Bentaleb maybe didn't do? (given he was more suited to having a defensive midfielder along side him).

Just maybe showing different mentalities where one is more prepared to sacrifice a bit of his game to keep the team ticking (we were often left exposed defensively with Mason and Bentaleb in midfield, with Bentaleb supposed to be the more defensive one).

Not meant as a massive dig at Bentaleb as was say to see him go but interesting to see difference in the mentality of two of our youth products who play a similar position.
 
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