Player watch: Danny Rose

HailKingLevy

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The way i see it Rose had a puple patch a few years ago, when we was playing with a high and fast press, and absolutly monstering teams, rival managers were often saying we were bullying them, and that obv suited his blood and thunder game, but now he has to kick the ball. I would like to see the stat that shows how often he gives the ball away.
 

wpmcg

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I kept hoping Danny would get back to what he was. The best LB in the PL easily for 2 years. Not gonna happen though.
He and Davies are neck and neck really now, though Davies will look good because he often plays a safe easy pass. Vertonghen is better than both though. Aurier Sanchez Toby Verts is our best back 4 IMO.
 

allpaths

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Oct 31, 2014
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2,298
Trippier
Crossing Accuracy 31% (57/181)*
36 Key Passes from Crosses - 20%*
3 Assists from Crosses

Aurier
Crossing Accuracy 27% (11/41)
5 Key Passes from Crosses - 12%
2 Assists from Crosses

Rose
Crossing Accuracy 22% (16/73)
11 Key Passes from Crosses - 15%
1 Assist from a Cross

KWP
Crossing Accuracy 33% (1/3)
0 Key Passes from Crosses
0 Assists from Crosses

Davies
Crossing Accuracy 20% (12/61)
6 Key Passes from Crosses - 10%
1 Assist from a Cross

Digne
Crossing Accuracy 29% (62/214)
42 Key Passes from Crosses - 20%
4 Assists from Crosses*

Pereira
Crossing Accuracy 14% (13/91)
2 Key Passes from Crosses - 2%
1 Assist from a Cross

TAA
Crossing Accuracy 30% (52/175)
26 Key Passes from Crosses - 15%
4 Assists from Crosses*

Robertson
Crossing Accuracy 14% (15/111)
11 Key Passes from Crosses - 10%
3 Assists from Crosses

Aarons
Crossing Accuracy 9% (5/57)
5 Key Passes from Crosses - 9%
0 Assists from Crosses

(A key pass is the final pass before a shot)
All this shows is crossing is a terrible way to create goal scoring opportunities. And it's much more important to have fullbacks that can stretch the pitch and have a strong link up game. Like we had with peak Rose and Walker.
 

Paolo10

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The way i see it Rose had a puple patch a few years ago, when we was playing with a high and fast press, and absolutly monstering teams, rival managers were often saying we were bullying them, and that obv suited his blood and thunder game, but now he has to kick the ball. I would like to see the stat that shows how often he gives the ball away.
Possession Lost Total | Bad Control | Dispossessed | Ovr. Passing % | Mins Played

Trippier - 33 | (20) | (13) | 78.9% | 2114
1.40 times dispossessed per 90 mins

Davies - 29 | (20) | (9) | 82.2% | 1905
1.37 times dispossessed per 90 mins

Rose - 51 | (38) | (13) | 74.5% | 1454
3.16 times dispossessed per 90 mins


Aurier - 33 | (20) | (13) | 76.6% | 999
2.97 times dispossessed per 90 mins

KWP - 7 | (4) | (3) | 81.2% | 255
2.47 times dispossessed per 90 mins
 

Nocando

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2,663
It's a difficult stat to cover because if you overhit a cross and it hits the other FB, that isn't a successful cross to me, I wish we could find a a cross leading to shot stat. Rose crossing irritates me tbh, it's always overshit, Llorente took a couple of bullets to the face to score a couple of times mind you.
I think this is potential dissertation material...

Subjectively assessed crossing stats compared to algorithm based stats, in order to prove whether algorithm based crossing stats are a reliable indication of the quality of a cross*.

You** could check this by watching 19 games of similar opposition for, say, 10 of the best crossing wing backs based on stats to see how this assessment compares. Maybe even watch the games with a pro*** to help justify the methodology you are applying.

You can then report back your findings to the forum for further debate and to provide supporting evidence to help inform any conclusions you come up with.







* Maybe needs a longer title
** Definitely not me
*** Doesn't have to be a football pro 😉
 

Paolo10

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I think this is potential dissertation material...

Subjectively assessed crossing stats compared to algorithm based stats, in order to prove whether algorithm based crossing stats are a reliable indication of the quality of a cross*.

You** could check this by watching 19 games of similar opposition for, say, 10 of the best crossing wing backs based on stats to see how this assessment compares. Maybe even watch the games with a pro*** to help justify the methodology you are applying.

You can then report back your findings to the forum for further debate and to provide supporting evidence to help inform any conclusions you come up with.







* Maybe needs a longer title
** Definitely not me
*** Doesn't have to be a football pro 😉
Or just look at the key pass stats from crosses?
 

Nocando

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Or just look at the key pass stats from crosses?
Fuck you clever clogs.

Anyway what is defined as a key pass? Does it include those delightful crosses that hit the corridor of uncertainty but no one gets on the end of? If it does then i would like to repeat the above statement to you.
 

dtxspurs

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All this shows is crossing is a terrible way to create goal scoring opportunities. And it's much more important to have fullbacks that can stretch the pitch and have a strong link up game. Like we had with peak Rose and Walker.
Bingo! Why I always thought the line about Trippiers amazing crossing to be such bullshit. Even if he's good at it, its still the hardest way to score goals. Its why I roll my eyes at everyone talking about "end product" from the fullbacks. Reminds me of that clip of Van Gaals ManU team when they crossed the ball an insane amount of times against Fulham.

Found it:

 

Paolo10

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5,907
Fuck you clever clogs.

Anyway what is defined as a key pass? Does it include those delightful crosses that hit the corridor of uncertainty but no one gets on the end of? If it does then i would like to repeat the above statement to you.
It's exactly what he wanted to know.

A key pass is the final pass to a teammate before a shot on goal.
 

Nocando

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Or just look at the key pass stats from crosses?
If you are right then do we have a stat on the amount of times a wing back didn't cross when he bloody should have? Or turned back, or faffed about till the opposition got in his face and made it impossible to cross? Or the times when he didn't make the appropriate run or was too slow or poor in his efforts to get there. Basically any study to prove whether one of our fullbacks is marginally shitter than the other would be useful in this situation.
 

Nocando

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It's exactly what he wanted to know.

A key pass is the final pass to a teammate before a shot on goal.
Hmmm. However my proposal could incorporate that, to see if that is a good indication of a good cross. Afterall what are we trying to prove here? As i mentioned above is it to establish if one is marginally shitter than the other?
 

Paolo10

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Lol@Crossing being 'a terrible way to create goalscoring opportunities'

Manchester City - 20% (14/70)
Liverpool - 22.7% (10/44)
Tottenham - 34.0% (18/53)
Arsenal - 18.6% (11/59)
Manchester United - 14.6% (6/41)
Chelsea - 21.8% (12/55)
Wolves - 27.6% (8/29)
Watford - 23.5% (8/34)
West Ham - 20% (5/25)
Leicester - 22.2% (6/27)
Everton - 32.1% (9/28)
Bournemouth - 22.6% (7/31)
Newcastle United - 41.7% (10/24)
Crystal Palace - 12.5% (3/24)
Brighton - 54.5% (12/22)
Southampton - 12.8% (2/17)
Burnley - 40% (10/25)
Cardiff - 20% (3/15)
Fulham - 25% (5/20)
Huddersfield - 22.2% (2/9)
 

HailKingLevy

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Messages
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Possession Lost Total | Bad Control | Dispossessed | Ovr. Passing % | Mins Played

Trippier - 33 | (20) | (13) | 78.9% | 2114
1.40 times dispossessed per 90 mins

Davies - 29 | (20) | (9) | 82.2% | 1905
1.37 times dispossessed per 90 mins

Rose - 51 | (38) | (13) | 74.5% | 1454
3.16 times dispossessed per 90 mins


Aurier - 33 | (20) | (13) | 76.6% | 999
2.97 times dispossessed per 90 mins

KWP - 7 | (4) | (3) | 81.2% | 255
2.47 times dispossessed per 90 mins

Thanks Paolo, Should make interesting reading for those who think he is a good player.
 

Archibald&Crooks

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This season, according to premierleague.com Premier League, assists from defenders are

Ranked 1st - Robertson 8
Ranked joint 2nd - Trent-Arnold 6
Ranked joint 2nd - Holebas 6
Ranked joint 4th - Bellerin 5
Ranked joint 4th - Kolasinac 5
Ranked joint 4th - Mendy 5

Then you have four other defenders ranked joint 7th on 4 assists before you get to where ours are on the list

Ranked joint 11th - Trippier 3
Ranked joint 11th - Rose 3
Ranked joint 11th - KWP 3
Ranked joint 18th - Aurier 2

Personally, I think all you can tell from that is that you'd want Robertson in your team :playful: and a couple of other players are having good seasons, the rest is much of a muchness :D

As for the business of defending

Toby has 17 blocks (no other Spurs players in top 20)
Toby has one 'last man' tackle (no other Spurs players in list)
Toby has 140 clearances (joint 14th in list)
Toby has 65 headed clearances (joint 17th in list)
Tripper is joint 11th in the top 20 for tackles (no other Spurs players in list)
Tripper is joint 3rd in the list for own goals
Tripper is 2nd in the list for errors leading to goals (2), Foyth is 8th in that list with 1 error.
Tripper and Vertonghen are joint 1st for penalties conceded with 2 each (13 players on joint first haha)

We have no players in the top 20 list for interceptions
We have no players in the top 20 for aerial battles won
We have no players in the top 20 for fouls conceded
We have no players in the list for aerial battles lost

There you go, get your teeth into that lot. Personally I think it's all a bit meh, you can write off many stats in many ways, I was bored so I went to the trouble :D
 
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Hakkz

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The way i see it Rose had a puple patch a few years ago, when we was playing with a high and fast press, and absolutly monstering teams, rival managers were often saying we were bullying them, and that obv suited his blood and thunder game, but now he has to kick the ball. I would like to see the stat that shows how often he gives the ball away.
1.9 unsuccessful touches and 0.6 dispossesions per 90 in the PL. 74% pass accuracy.
 

Paolo10

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Apr 6, 2004
Messages
5,907
1.9 unsuccessful touches and 0.6 dispossesions per 90 in the PL. 74% pass accuracy.
The stats I posted earlier are for all Spurs games this season in EPL and UCL and are more accurate.

@Archibald&Crooks

The Liverpool full backs at the top of the Assists got 5 between them in the Watford 5-0 recently (TAA - 3, Robertson 2). Key Passes along with assists are actually a better measure of creativity.

Robertson has also played 3127 mins of football across both competitions (4th Highest mins in League, 3rd highest in Champions League for Liverpool). TAA has 2280 minutes.

The likes of Trippier and Davies who are our most used full backs have 2114 and 1905 minutes played each.

Robertson has played about 11 more games than Tripps and 13 more than Davies in both competitions.

Liverpool also haven't been missing some of their better attackers for a lot of the season tbf.
 
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Paolo10

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Thanks Paolo, Should make interesting reading for those who think he is a good player.
He's not exactly what I would call a bad player, but yes, he gives the ball away even more than Aurier.

I do think he gets less grief than any other full back we have tbh.
 
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