What's new

Our best team?

spud

Well-Known Member
Sep 2, 2003
5,850
8,794
The gist of discussions on SC recently seems to have been that our best formation is 4-2-3-1, and that we should play it in every game. There also seems to be a consensus that we should also play our best team in all of our remaining fixtures. But what is our best team?

If we do play 4-2-3-1 then we probably have to leave out one of Modric, VdV or Lennon. If we play Parker plus Sandro or Livermore as the '2' does Modric or VdV play as the central player in the '3'? If it's Modric, does Lennon play right, or does VdV?

Alternatively, if we play Modric and Parker/Sandro/(Livermore) as the '2' with Lennon, VdV and Bale as the '3', does this get the best out of the system? Is Modric too deep to be effective going forward and too lightweight defensively?

So our 'best' team may not include all of our 'best' players. But what is it?
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2007
12,636
15,834
Play the best team/system, even if it does not include all your 'best' players - but rotate some of the players from match to match to (a) prevent fatigue (b) keep them all feeling loved and wanted.

Something HR has not done all season - will he start now ?
 

Dan Ashcroft

Manstack vs The Gay Chimney
Jan 6, 2008
6,404
1,147
Modric has to be one of the 2. He's not as influential/comfortable too far forward.

A front 6 of:

-----Parker---Modric

Lennon----vdV-----Bale

------------Ade

really does pick itself.
 

Dan Ashcroft

Manstack vs The Gay Chimney
Jan 6, 2008
6,404
1,147
Play the best team/system, even if it does not include all your 'best' players - but rotate some of the players from match to match to (a) prevent fatigue (b) keep them all feeling loved and wanted.

Something HR has not done all season - will he start now ?

Tbh we've dropped most of our points when we've tried to accomodate squad players like Defoe and Saha (and screwed up our system to do that).

We've only got 6 or 7 games left now. We should play 4-2-3-1 and should play BF / KW-YK-WG-BAE / SP-LM / AL-vdV-GB / EA for pretty much every minute of all of them (injuries permitting). And only King and Sandro should be allowed off the bench as they are the only other 2 players we have who aren't a significant drop in quality.
 

The Watcher

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2012
694
622
Modric has to be one of the 2. He's not as influential/comfortable too far forward.

A front 6 of:

-----Parker---Modric

Lennon----vdV-----Bale

------------Ade

really does pick itself.

Yep, we should do what the biggest and generally best teams do - stick to the same formation 75%+ of the time and buy players who fit into it, sell the ones that don't in summer regardless of sentimentality.
Everyone in the squad knows their role every game, we don't sacrifice results by rotating because everyone knows exactly what is expected of them. Simple.
 

ravo

SC Supporter
Jun 4, 2004
4,787
2,885
For me the problem is our lack of tactical organisation (if you can call it that). In other words, general formations and tactcis should be sorted before the season starts. We just seem to look so fucking disorganised.

If the squad was drilled in our 'best' formation (whether it be 4-2-3-1 or not), at least we could have players who can rotate it and know what they have to do for that position. Our lost just don't seem to really get it. Is it the players fault? I honestly don't think so. If you look at Rodgers or Lambert - maybe not the best managers around, but they know their tactics and (seem) to work very hard on them. I don't think we do.

I really believe if we had a more tactical manager/coaching staff (as we don't always know where the blame lies), we would be better drilled in our formation, closing down, etc. We could have also rotated certain players during the season. I know I'm making it sound a lot simpler than it probably is, but it just seems to be that we are tactically disorganised and don't know what our best formation is. Uber frustrating with the talent we have.

In terms of our best team, I think we have shown that it's a 4-2-3-1 or variant of (4-4-1-1, 4-3-3, 4-5-1). It's not 4-4-fucking-2. Modric clearly works best as part of a midfield three, whether he is higher up the pitch, or being part of the 'two' with VdV in front. This is what is best for us, with a lone hold-up striker and two supporting forwards (Bale, VdV or Lennon).

Harry has done a fantastic job for us. I don't want him sacked. I want him to finish the season with us (hopefully finishing 4th). He can then go on to his dream job (he won't have to get up at 4.30am every morning). His man-management skills have brought a lot out of our players. However, I think his lack of tactical awareness has shown us up this season in our push to that higher level.
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
2,776
553
Firmly believe that in the short to medium term you play the system / formation that best suits your squad. Over time you can develop or acquire players to play a particular system. Trying to shoehorn players into a favourite/fashionable system will bring tears.
We are in a situation where I don't believe we have a 'best team' made up of eleven players. Instead I think we have 13 players who can justifably expect a starting position......this is called competition for places. It is also my belief that part of our decline has come about as a result of loading our midfield to such an extent that VdV comes short and takes Modric's ball / space and Bale has developed a sense of entitlement centrally which is not helping. We tend to play in front of the opposition and it results in midfield clutter. We have been duped into believing that hundreds of short, hold the ball but go nowhere passes is effective. Wrong!
I believe that we have been at our best this season when committed to attack...primarily through Lennon and Bale. Ade and VDV have missed too many of the chances provided while Defoe, a much more natural goalscorer, seemingly doesn't contributre enough in the build up. Some have likened our 5 man midfield to the 1987 side which played with just Allen(occasionally Nico) upfront. By the way Allen was slow, couldn't head the ball was not a flash dribbler and rarely scored from outside the box. Perhaps there are likeness's in the teams but Allen, limited player that he was, could finish.
 

EastLondonYid

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2010
7,837
16,145
The really good managers have a system that they have and assemble a 20 man squad that are all comfortfable within that system, they have cover for all those positions and are comfortable that each position is covered.

That enables the team to keep its system and not have to change it all everytime someone is injured,suspended or out of form.This also ensures all players are on their toes as they know the manager has the tools to drop them without fear of messing up the whole system if they are not performing, sadly this is where we have gone wrong, we lose a wide man and we are fucked.we lose our only forward who can play upfront alone and we are fucked, we lose our FB and we are fucked with Kaboul or livermore playing out of position, this is where we have gone wrong imo.
 

ravo

SC Supporter
Jun 4, 2004
4,787
2,885
The really good managers have a system that they have and assemble a 20 man squad that are all comfortfable within that system, they have cover for all those positions and are comfortable that each position is covered.

That enables the team to keep its system and not have to change it all everytime someone is injured,suspended or out of form.This also ensures all players are on their toes as they know the manager has the tools to drop them without fear of messing up the whole system if they are not performing, sadly this is where we have gone wrong, we lose a wide man and we are fucked.we lose our only forward who can play upfront alone and we are fucked, we lose our FB and we are fucked with Kaboul or livermore playing out of position, this is where we have gone wrong imo.

Bang on.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
Modric has to be one of the 2. He's not as influential/comfortable too far forward.

A front 6 of:

-----Parker---Modric

Lennon----vdV-----Bale

------------Ade

really does pick itself.

Absolutely; I would back that team against side in the Premiership. Our problems start when it comes to like for like understudies who enable us to keep our shape.

Parker, fine we have Sandro and Livermore.

Modric, maybe Thudd, if he wasn't injured, maybe Pienaar if he wasn't on loan, but we get Sandro or Jake and lose some spark.

Lennon and Bale, maybe Townsend if he wasn't on loan, or possibly Rose, but we get Krancjar, or Vdv right or Modders left causing us to lose our shape and nullifying our creative big guns.

VdV, maybe Krancjar, or Pienaar if he wasn't loan, but we get Defoe or Saha who leave a gap between them and the midfield.

Ade, okay we now have Saha, who is better than Pav was, but he is not really like for like.

Our problem is that we always end up perming six from eleven: Parker, Sandro, Jake, Modders, Bale, Lennon, Krancjar, VdV, Defoe, Saha, Ade, and while they are all good players, there are just not that many permutations that work, and even finding an alternative perm that half works causes us to change our system.

Obviously you need a squad that allows for some tactical flexibility, but we have struck on a winning formula and next season we really need to find like for like understudies/competitors for our first choice six so that we can deploy that formula at will.
 

DEFchenkOE

Well-Known Member
Feb 13, 2006
10,527
8,052
The really good managers have a system that they have and assemble a 20 man squad that are all comfortfable within that system, they have cover for all those positions and are comfortable that each position is covered.

That enables the team to keep its system and not have to change it all everytime someone is injured,suspended or out of form.This also ensures all players are on their toes as they know the manager has the tools to drop them without fear of messing up the whole system if they are not performing, sadly this is where we have gone wrong, we lose a wide man and we are fucked.we lose our only forward who can play upfront alone and we are fucked, we lose our FB and we are fucked with Kaboul or livermore playing out of position, this is where we have gone wrong imo.

This is the issue, and I've been saying since 2 seasons ago that one of our priorities should have been a winger with pace that can play left or right to provide cover/competition to BaLennon.

I'm amazed that we haven't addressed this, we were in the CL last season playing at the Bernebau, Lennon gets sick and we have to move around 3 players in the midfield as we didn't have another winger to play there. Shocking.
 

gilzeantheking

SC Supporter
Jun 16, 2011
6,612
19,600
The really good managers have a system that they have and assemble a 20 man squad that are all comfortfable within that system, they have cover for all those positions and are comfortable that each position is covered.

That enables the team to keep its system and not have to change it all everytime someone is injured,suspended or out of form.This also ensures all players are on their toes as they know the manager has the tools to drop them without fear of messing up the whole system if they are not performing, sadly this is where we have gone wrong, we lose a wide man and we are fucked.we lose our only forward who can play upfront alone and we are fucked, we lose our FB and we are fucked with Kaboul or livermore playing out of position, this is where we have gone wrong imo.

This exactly. like it or not the game should be more squad based, with at least one specialist player to cover for each position. We seem to have multiple options for some positions and only one option for others.

Surely in this day and age every player in the squad should know what their particular role is and we should be able to chop and change (whether through injury or form) without causing any disruption. The squad should be well enough drilled to allow a player to slot in almost seamlessly.

The other danger comes when we only have one player for a particular position and they know it is almost impossible for them to be dropped no matter how they perform.

It is simply not good enough to expect players to move to an unfamiliar role (Livermore as a CB springs to mind) and expect them to do a brilliant job because we simply so not have enough cover.

I appreciate emergency situations do occur like a rash of injuries to a certain position, but that should be the only eason IMO that players should be asked to play in completely unfamiliar roles.
 

ardiles

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,228
40,308
With the current players that we have, I would generally play a 4-1-3-1-1 formation with Parker just in front of the back four, in a Makalele sort of position. I don't think he should be spending too much of his time up front. In the number of times that I've seen him, as our foremost player upfront, with the ball, he seems to be at a loss on what is the next course of action, and he ended up, on more than a few occasions, turning around to pass the ball backwards to one of our players instead of, maybe, taking a shot at their goal.

-------Parker-------
Lennon--Modric---Bale
VDV (in a free role)
-------Ade---

If Parker is unavailable, I'd play Sandro and Modric as the '2' in a 4-2-3-1 as they
are both more mobile/quicker than Parker.

That said, its been a rare opportunity where we have all (of Vdv, Bale, Lennon, Modric, Parker/Sandro) available
at the same time. 'Available' as in fully fit and not just returning from an injury break.
 
Top