New Stadium Details And Discussions

Tucker

Devious Lefty
Joined
Jul 15, 2013
Messages
4,822
You must be joking? It was an absolute disaster miles worse than our new stadium. The initial plan was supposed to be started in 2000/2001 and finished in 2003 but they didn't even start working on it until late 2002. It eventually opened in 2007 so was about 4 years late relative to the initial plan, or perhaps more fairly, 2 years late in terms of the revised timescale after the started work on it.

On top of that it also cost pretty much triple what it was supposed to in the end and there's still all sorts of legal cases ongoing between the various contractors all blaming each other for their massive losses on the project. It's got to be one of the most disastrous stadium constructions there's ever been. And all that for a stadium that most people would say is absolutely awful if you ignore the "but it's Wembley, the home of football!" bullshit.

No idea where you've got the opening ahead of schedule thing from mate.
Yeah I remember Wembley going way over schedule and budget. My ex had booked tickets to see Robbie bloody Williams there, and we ended up going to Milton Keynes to see him. Fun times :cautious:
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,746
Somebody called my post “baffling”. Which is basically the same that was said about me when I believed Kramer 5 months ago. I had every right to defend myself. And right now I’d say “shambles” is a pretty spot on adjective to define the situation. I’m not a person that calls out other people’s accounts. But when I’m called out I have every to defend myself especially as the person I sided with was correct.
You're entitled to defend yourself - or say whatever you want frankly - I'm just saying that using big rhetoric about stuff that you don't personally know much about is likely to have more people having a dig, and it doesn't achieve anything at all mate. All sorts of people have quoted all sorts of dates so the ability to pluck a "winner" out of the bag doesn't prove anything.

And I don't think it's about one post, it's about a large collection of posts which some might call "questionable". I might be wrong but wasn't it you who complained about there being no big "Tottenham Hotspur" outside the West stand, said the grass looked crap, said that the South stand looked awful and didn't like the back lighting of the top ring? That's just what I think I can remember (may well be wrong) but it ends up looking pretty trolly.

Anyway, back to the stadium. Having read that thread on the other site it really changed my mind about how "shambolic" things have been. It seemed impossible to me that such a key part of the stadium could be so wrong, but when you start digging into some of the technical stuff they have shared it doesn't sound implausible at all. If the story about the primary control panel being a "prototype" design is true that might also explain why the debugging and remediation is taking so long... and probably longer than many industry people would be able to predict.

It's a massive pain in the arse to have to sit through as a fan but this is a long-term project and by most accounts sounds like it will be one of the best stadiums in the world once ready.
 

kmk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,507
You must be joking? It was an absolute disaster miles worse than our new stadium. The initial plan was supposed to be started in 2000/2001 and finished in 2003 but they didn't even start working on it until late 2002. It eventually opened in 2007 so was about 4 years late relative to the initial plan, or perhaps more fairly, 2 years late in terms of the revised timescale after the started work on it.

On top of that it also cost pretty much triple what it was supposed to in the end and there's still all sorts of legal cases ongoing between the various contractors all blaming each other for their massive losses on the project. It's got to be one of the most disastrous stadium constructions there's ever been. And all that for a stadium that most people would say is absolutely awful if you ignore the "but it's Wembley, the home of football!" bullshit.

No idea where you've got the opening ahead of schedule thing from mate.
My point was that from the point construction started, Wembley was completed within the estimated construction timeframe.

The initial 2 year delay was due to funding before the construction had even commenced.

The delays experienced with Wembley is completely irrelevant to NWHL.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
5,964
You're entitled to defend yourself - or say whatever you want frankly - I'm just saying that using big rhetoric about stuff that you don't personally know much about is likely to have more people having a dig, and it doesn't achieve anything at all mate. All sorts of people have quoted all sorts of dates so the ability to pluck a "winner" out of the bag doesn't prove anything.

And I don't think it's about one post, it's about a large collection of posts which some might call "questionable". I might be wrong but wasn't it you who complained about there being no big "Tottenham Hotspur" outside the West stand, said the grass looked crap, said that the South stand looked awful and didn't like the back lighting of the top ring? That's just what I think I can remember (may well be wrong) but it ends up looking pretty trolly.

Anyway, back to the stadium. Having read that thread on the other site it really changed my mind about how "shambolic" things have been. It seemed impossible to me that such a key part of the stadium could be so wrong, but when you start digging into some of the technical stuff they have shared it doesn't sound implausible at all. If the story about the primary control panel being a "prototype" design is true that might also explain why the debugging and remediation is taking so long... and probably longer than many industry people would be able to predict.

It's a massive pain in the arse to have to sit through as a fan but this is a long-term project and by most accounts sounds like it will be one of the best stadiums in the world once ready.
Yet here you are calling me out again. The only thing I said was about the club name which I’d still maintain. And I said the grass looked rougher than I thought it would. The other stuff was not me.Yet somehow every negative post gets attributed to me. Makes me laugh as I get called a happy clapper on twitter.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
5,964
My point was that from the point construction started, Wembley was completed within the estimated construction timeframe.

The initial 2 year delay was due to funding before the construction had even commenced.

The delays experienced with Wembley is completely irrelevant to NWHL.
The Actual Wembley build was delayed at least a year.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,473
My point was that from the point construction started, Wembley was completed within the estimated construction timeframe.

The initial 2 year delay was due to funding before the construction had even commenced.

The delays experienced with Wembley is completely irrelevant to NWHL.
There was the initial delay but then the construction was delayed as well. It's held up as a classic case study of how not to do things because it was such a disaster.

And I know it's irrelevant to our new stadium, but you're the one who brought it up ffs :confused:
 

wakefieldyid

SC Supporter
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
1,124
You must be joking? It was an absolute disaster miles worse than our new stadium. The initial plan was supposed to be started in 2000/2001 and finished in 2003 but they didn't even start working on it until late 2002. It eventually opened in 2007 so was about 4 years late relative to the initial plan, or perhaps more fairly, 2 years late in terms of the revised timescale after the started work on it.

On top of that it also cost pretty much triple what it was supposed to in the end and there's still all sorts of legal cases ongoing between the various contractors all blaming each other for their massive losses on the project. It's got to be one of the most disastrous stadium constructions there's ever been. And all that for a stadium that most people would say is absolutely awful if you ignore the "but it's Wembley, the home of football!" bullshit.

No idea where you've got the opening ahead of schedule thing from mate.
Even after the stadium was handed over by the builders, the Wembley turf was consistently awful, to the point where the stadium wasn't really fit for purpose. I had professional contact with several sport turf specialists who wouldn't go near the place, because they saw any involvement with it as potentially career-ending. Even now, it can't have escaped anyones's notice just how long it took for the turf to recover from last Autumn's NFL match. One of the few issues that allowed the FA to avoid more public scrutiny of the project was that playing England's international matches at other venues proved extremely popular
 

eddiev14

SC Supporter
Joined
Jan 18, 2005
Messages
5,989
Sounds like a clusterfuck.

Hopefully while we pour money down the drain sorting it out, our chairman can use the proceeds from his Reggae Reggae Sauce empire to fund transfers.
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
6,320
Yet here you are calling me out again. The only thing I said was about the club name which I’d still maintain. And I said the grass looked rougher than I thought it would. The other stuff was not me.Yet somehow every negative post gets attributed to me. Makes me laugh as I get called a happy clapper on twitter.
you complained about the screens in the north blocking the view of the south. you moaned there wasn't enough to make people aware it was the Tottenham stadium.

yes Krammer has turned out to be right, but not for the reasons he kept posting about the state of inside, hardly mentioned about the safety systems, if he did at all. if the safety system hadn't failed at 1st, they would of carried on with a heavy staff on site to make sure internally it would of allowed us to play a lot earlier. once they knew there would be delays, staff was cut back big time and work carried out a lot slower.

it's turned out the fitting of the safety systems has been a lot more complicated but reading the latest club statement it mentions about arranging meetings with the council, and my take is they have had to commit to playing at Wembley in case all test are not complete by the time we hoped.

yes it's a massive inconvenience, but the way you address the situation is way over the top, accusing the club knowing it would be delayed when they were selling the tickets back in March. you might find it hard to believe but they didn't do the safety test in March, so didn't know there would be delays.
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
1,562
Do you think they will sell STs before confirming that the stadium WILL be ready for August? Would be funny if they did... Assuming twitter is correct about it potentially being ready for August
 

kmk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 5, 2014
Messages
1,507
There was the initial delay but then the construction was delayed as well. It's held up as a classic case study of how not to do things because it was such a disaster.

And I know it's irrelevant to our new stadium, but you're the one who brought it up ffs :confused:
It was coys200 who said that NWHL could end up being a new Wembley. I was replying to his post. :confused::confused:
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,473
It was coys200 who said that NWHL could end up being a new Wembley. I was replying to his post. :confused::confused:
Fair enough. I still fail to see how anybody could think Wembley was finished ahead of schedule though when it was clearly years behind schedule at a massively inflated cost. I'm not going to go round and round about it though and derail the thread. I don't understand how how you've come to that conclusion but we'll just leave it at that.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,746
Yet here you are calling me out again. The only thing I said was about the club name which I’d still maintain. And I said the grass looked rougher than I thought it would. The other stuff was not me.Yet somehow every negative post gets attributed to me. Makes me laugh as I get called a happy clapper on twitter.
Sure I’ll get called nit picking (quite ironic when I’m a happy clapper on twitter) anyways anyone actually defend this ? looks shocking probably worst part of the entire exterior. I get they are trying to mimic the veil. But blimey they’ve royally screwed that up. View attachment 41096
But look, it's not a problem. It's your opinion and you're very welcome to it. I was just trying to give a couple of reasons why people might think your posts (plural) have been baffling. Personally I enjoy reading your posts and think you have positive attitude in general.
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
2,645
No biggie ? Presume you didn’t shell out 1.2k for a stadium that was never gonna be ready. Board have bare faced lied since the summer nothing short of fraud.
Well, good luck with that court case...

You should go for it! Might ease the flow of sensationalist nonsense in here for a bit
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Joined
Jul 24, 2005
Messages
19,191
I'd be astonished. That tournament is worth about £15m to us I think just in appearance fees, plus massive commercial benefits. Not to mention withdrawing could jeapourdise our invitation to future tournaments. It'd make sense to play some home friendlies before and afterwards to help the team get used to it, but that'll be it.
I can't see us playing more than one pre-season game at the stadium.

we played the day after Joshua had his last fight, and no reason we can't play Brighton on the Monday night if we don't make the semi's ourselves. or like what happens with teams that are in it, or the games that occasionally do get postponed we will then need to reschedule

what would be great is for 1 day see you post something positive about the club in any thread
Yeah, there's no chance of us not being able to play the fixtures. We've got an agreement that we can play at Wembley until the end of the season. There's no way that the stadium owners, the Premier league and the club would've agreed to it if the fixtures couldn't be completed.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,522
There are no liquidated damages in the mace contract, they would not agree them due to the incredibly tight timescale levy set out. They said they would deliver on time but would not financially guarantee meeting the deadline. The only chance of the club receiving any compensation is pursuing the sub contractors responsible for installation. This however can be highly speculative as generally sub contractors being that much of a smaller firm, have relatively small liability insurance policies in place. Suing them directly regardless of insurance is pretty pointless too as they won’t have the capital at hand to meet their liability and would be declared insolvent.
And presumably (i.e. I know nothing about construction/development) by definition, Spurs won't have a contractual relationship with the sub contractors.

End of the day, it's no biggie. Nice to get a little refund of £150, gives me flexibility to buy another cheaper ticket or not go at all and there are more important things in life.
 

rez9000

Upstanding Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
5,688
I'm with @vegassd on this: the hysteria that's been going around isn't very constructive and all it does is feed the hysteria.

I sympathise, I truly do, with those that have been inconvenienced by the season ticket situation. I'm sure it can be close to making people want to tear their hair out.

And for those who don't have STs who just want to be able to know that we've gone home again (like me) it's not much better.

But some of the suggestions I've seen in this thread are borderline (and sometimes cross the border) paranoid.

The idea that the club are trying to defraud fans. Why? To make more money? Surely there are easier ways to extract money out of the fans without having to do it in this roundabout manner that involves paying however many thousands of pounds to rent out Wembley stadium?

Or the idea that the club knew well in advance that the stadium wasn't going to be finished and chose not to inform the fans. Again, to what purpose? What would the club gain by doing that? More money from ST holders? But then the club is still losing money by having to rent out Wembley stadium and provide refunds to fans who don't want to go.

Or the idea that the club are slow in providing information. What information do you want them to provide? "Day 400: still can't open the stadium; Day 401: still can't open the stadium; Day 402: still can't open the stadium. Dave fixed the intercom system; Day 403: can now open the stadium. No, just kidding - it's still not done."?

And to call it a shambles is a bit strong as well. Including demolition, the Emirates hovel took two and a half years to build and that was nearly 15 years ago. Wembley took four and a half years including demolition. The Olympic stadium took three years. Even a small stadium like Kirklees took four years for full completion. We've done ours in less than two and it's the third biggest stadium in England. That it's taken such a short time isn't a shambles, it's a miracle, even with the fire system or whatever it is having teething problems. Sorry to have to put it rather bluntly, but something isn't a shambles just because it's inconvenienced you.

There's nothing wrong with feeling a bit negative about what's happened. It's not a positive that the opening has been delayed, after all. Feeling negative and expressing that negativity are fine. Extrapolating conspiracy theories in order to salve that negative feeling is just foolish though and serves no purpose.

There's no conspiracy here. There's no shadowy evil types thinking up more and more ingenious ways of taking your money or keeping you in the dark. The club want the stadium done just as much as you do, if for no other reason but that we all spend money there. If it's not open, it's not making money. Let's all calm the conspiracy talk, yes?
 
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