Lloris

[thelak]

Been a Spurs supporter longer than you've been alive mate

You mean Utd fan right?

 

[dondo]

Do you have any actual factual evidence of that statement or is that just an opinion?? No way on this earth will you have seen more games/matches from any of these other keepers and NO Sky do not cover every single mistake a keepers makes - unless it's a complete howler. You also might need to define what you class as a "mistake" ? Does it have to lead to a goal? Cos if so Lloris can't make that many - we have the meanest defence going and weren't to shabby last season either.

No I don't have any evidence to back it up (I have looked) it based on my memory and opinion.
I referring to mistakes that lead to goals or chances

 

[glospur]

No I don't have any evidence to back it up (I have looked) it based on my memory and opinion.
I referring to mistakes that lead to goals or chances

So in other words you've got absolutely no objective evidence to support your highly controversial opinion?

 

[dondo]

So in other words you've got absolutely no objective evidence to support your highly controversial opinion?

Highly controversial? It's a slight criticism of a football player not watergate
Have you got any evidence to disprove it?

 

[Shadydan]

So in other words you've got absolutely no objective evidence to support your highly controversial opinion?

No he said MOTD highlights which is an excellent source I'm sure you'll agree.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

No I don't have any evidence to back it up (I have looked) it based on my memory and opinion.
I referring to mistakes that lead to goals or chances

For City's first goal, Lloris could have stayed on his line. If wotsisname had scored with a shot from the edge which would have been the outcome had Lloris not charged out, no one would be blaming him and I have no doubt many commentators would be saying "there was nothing the keeper could have done about that" or words to that effect.. But he got incredibly close to stopping an almost certain goal. it didn't work but it was worth a try. And often it does work.

Wouldn't you rather have a keeper who reduces the team's risks over a season by taking risks on himself?

The view that Lloris is at fault for taking risks of this type seems very short-sighted to me.

 

[Japhet]

Is that not just because the way we play means he plays a lot of 10 yard passes, which are inevitably more accurate than long hoofs up field? It also doesn't factor in the many times he plays one of our defenders into trouble by giving it to them with their back to goal surrounded by opposition. It obviously doesn't help that we persevere with playing out from the back even when it's painfully clear that it's not working.

The only reason I can think why we persist with playing out from the back is that it draws the opponents into a press which creates more space in the middle of the pitch for us to use. We're getting consistently targeted now though by teams who have put us in trouble time and time again. I'd like to see Lloris mix the distribution up a bit so that it's not 100% obvious what's happening next all the time.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

The only reason I can think why we persist with playing out from the back is that it draws the opponents into a press which creates more space in the middle of the pitch for us to use. We're getting consistently targeted now though by teams who have put us in trouble time and time again. I'd like to see Lloris mix the distribution up a bit so that it's not 100% obvious what's happening next all the time.

Yes, and I sort of agree that it can cause problems but overall it seems to be a pretty effective tactic in terms of our results. Maybe we just need to get even better at it instead of doing it less.

 

[glospur]

Highly controversial? It's a slight criticism of a football player not watergate
Have you got any evidence to disprove it?

Well it is controversial as far as football, and particularly Spurs, goes to say that De Gea, Courtois, Cech and Schmeichel are clearly better than him and there are a few more in the league on the same level. It's also controversial to claim that he makes more errors than most goalkeepers.

And for each of those claims the 'burden of proof,' if you like, is on you to prove what you're saying is correct, or to at least present some relevant evidence to back up your assertion, not on anyone else to disprove it. You can't expect to say something like that without any objective evidence whatsoever and not be challenged. That would be nonsensical. It would be analogous to being charged with a crime and then having to prove that you're innocent. Arguments, debating, whatever, doesn't work like that.

 

[tooey]

Every fan of every club says the same about their keeper in regards to distribution, it's the same as the "Erikssen hits the first man every time" groan. They're no different than any keeper/corner taker except for the fact we watch these guys week in week out and only catch the HIGHLIGHTS of other players. It's boring. It's been done to death. Just be careful what you wish for, because you might just get it and not like it.

 

[dondo]

Well it is controversial as far as football, and particularly Spurs, goes to say that De Gea, Courtois, Cech and Schmeichel are clearly better than him and there are a few more in the league on the same level. It's also controversial to claim that he makes more errors than most goalkeepers.

And for each of those claims the 'burden of proof,' if you like, is on you to prove what you're saying is correct, or to at least present some relevant evidence to back up your assertion, not on anyone else to disprove it. You can't expect to say something like that without any objective evidence whatsoever and not be challenged. That would be nonsensical. It would be analogous to being charged with a crime and then having to prove that you're innocent. Arguments, debating, whatever, doesn't work like that.

I said that after the match in the heat of the moment. I do think chec de gea and courtios are better (not clearly better)

 

[shoggy33]

Yes, and I sort of agree that it can cause problems but overall it seems to be a pretty effective tactic in terms of our results. Maybe we just need to get even better at it instead of doing it less.

It works most of the time because there are very few teams capable of that kind of pressing for more than about 20 minutes. However yesterday it was clear within about 5 minutes that we would be in trouble playing that way. Was a miracle we made it to half time at 0-0. Thankfully we did cut out that suicidal football a bit in the 2nd half, but it shouldn't have taken that long.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

It works most of the time because there are very few teams capable of that kind of pressing for more than about 20 minutes. However yesterday it was clear within about 5 minutes that we would be in trouble playing that way. Was a miracle we made it to half time at 0-0. Thankfully we did cut out that suicidal football a bit in the 2nd half, but it shouldn't have taken that long.

I don't agree that it's "suicidal".

I think it's beneficial most of the time which is why we do it, and you don't stop as soon as you have a problem unless you're sure there's nothing else going on, and there was a lot going on yesterday.

 

[dondo]

Well it is controversial as far as football, and particularly Spurs, goes to say that De Gea, Courtois, Cech and Schmeichel are clearly better than him and there are a few more in the league on the same level. It's also controversial to claim that he makes more errors than most goalkeepers.

And for each of those claims the 'burden of proof,' if you like, is on you to prove what you're saying is correct, or to at least present some relevant evidence to back up your assertion, not on anyone else to disprove it. You can't expect to say something like that without any objective evidence whatsoever and not be challenged. That would be nonsensical. It would be analogous to being charged with a crime and then having to prove that you're innocent. Arguments, debating, whatever, doesn't work like that.

I never said I was right, I said in my opinion so and so players are better because they make less mistakes how can you prove or disprove it?
I could be right I could be wrong, it's my opinion.

 

[Damian99]

No I don't have any evidence to back it up (I have looked) it based on my memory and opinion.
I referring to mistakes that lead to goals or chances

Fair do's mate - We all see things differently.

 

[ERO]

For City's first goal, Lloris could have stayed on his line. If wotsisname had scored with a shot from the edge which would have been the outcome had Lloris not charged out, no one would be blaming him and I have no doubt many commentators would be saying "there was nothing the keeper could have done about that" or words to that effect.. But he got incredibly close to stopping an almost certain goal. it didn't work but it was worth a try. And often it does work.

Wouldn't you rather have a keeper who reduces the team's risks over a season by taking risks on himself?

The view that Lloris is at fault for taking risks of this type seems very short-sighted to me.

Reminds me of 'solid' Friedel v 'calamity' Gomes. On corners, Friedel would be glued to his line, and we'd let in corner after corner that the goalkeeper "could do nothing about". Whereas Gomes would go for and clear most balls, but cocking up the odd one, and thus become a laughing stock.

 

[SUIYHA]

Reminds me of 'solid' Friedel v 'calamity' Gomes. On corners, Friedel would be glued to his line, and we'd let in corner after corner that the goalkeeper "could do nothing about". Whereas Gomes would go for and clear most balls, but cocking up the odd one, and thus become a laughing stock.

This. I liked Brad, but when he was good then Gomes was far superior. The problem wasn't just poor judgement of timing with Gomes though, he'd sometimes inexplicably miss the ball or fumble it into his own net which was akin to what Lloris did for the second yesterday.

Both goals were huge fuck ups, let's not beat around the bush. But Hugo has earned enough credit to be forgiven for a bad game. Just gotta make sure it doesn't affect his confidence and doesn't happen again.

 

[ebzrascal]

I'm not a fan his risky pass's when we are being pressed aggressively as it invites pressure and we tend to give stupid chances away. Would rather he went long sometimes to keep the opposition guessing.shot stopping is good but he does tend to make the odd mistake when least expected.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I never said I was right, I said in my opinion so and so players are better because they make less mistakes how can you prove or disprove it?
I could be right I could be wrong, it's my opinion.

You're wrong.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I said that after the match in the heat of the moment. I do think chec de gea and courtios are better (not clearly better)

So you agree with us that your initial opinion was wrong? Yet you've spent the last 18-20 hours defending it? Seems logical.