Levy, ENIC and DC

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vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
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I'd just like either naming rights, bond issue or a share issue to come through. We've had what 10 years of playing with one hand tied behind our back. I just want a more level playing field.
You were talking about this the other week and ended up saying that you weren't fussed about the naming rights or the bond issue, so why bring it up again?

As I mentioned before, naming rights will be a very hard sell whilst the stadium is getting negative media coverage (eg. all the delays) and the bond issue won't be sorted until we have a clear picture of the total debt amount and the profitability of the club with the stadium open. These things will not be sorted out for a while so stop using it as a stick to beat Levy with. It's completely unreasonable.

It's healthy to question the board about their actions at times - just don't use things that cannot be solved yet as ammo.

I agree with you about wanting to be on a level playing field. That's what the stadium is long term. It's painful as all hell having to suffer these delays but had we not pursued a new stadium I believe we would have been fighting with an arm behind our backs for years or decades to come.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
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You were talking about this the other week and ended up saying that you weren't fussed about the naming rights or the bond issue, so why bring it up again?

As I mentioned before, naming rights will be a very hard sell whilst the stadium is getting negative media coverage (eg. all the delays) and the bond issue won't be sorted until we have a clear picture of the total debt amount and the profitability of the club with the stadium open. These things will not be sorted out for a while so stop using it as a stick to beat Levy with. It's completely unreasonable.

It's healthy to question the board about their actions at times - just don't use things that cannot be solved yet as ammo.

I agree with you about wanting to be on a level playing field. That's what the stadium is long term. It's painful as all hell having to suffer these delays but had we not pursued a new stadium I believe we would have been fighting with an arm behind our backs for years or decades to come.
Sorry don't remember saying wasn't fussed about naming rights or bond issue. I've been saying since last summer we need investment wherever it comes from. If we are stuck with a zero net spend policy for the next couple of years we will have to pull miracles just to stay where we are. With some of our most important players looking like they're off aswell as squad players it looks like an impossible task. Why would poch want an impossible task if there are better offers on the table?
 

carmeldevil

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Plenty of clubs never won anything /ziltch/F.all. I don't hear them forever moaning about lack of trophies .
There are some on here that have a feeling they are entitled to win well thats not how it works .
Just check out our history we have won plenty some of which have been firsts.
I am sure we will be winning things in the near future and the 60s. 70s and 80s will be revisited with regard to winning cups I would not ask anyone to be patient as it seems to offend them I would just ask they keep the faith.COYS
Aren't we on pace to have the most points in PL in Spurs history? Just sucks that oil money has made it tougher to win PL outright.
 
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I'm just not wetting the bed and resenting the club for not buying someone in 2 windows.

You could argue that we've done better in the season following not buying anyone than all of the previous windows when we had.
Work that one out chap!

It's nothing to do with hoping. You seem to be discounting any of the work that the coaching staff are doing. They are at a point, in my opinion, where they are only willing to put the relentless hardwork in with players who are worth the effort - we aren't buying players who are in the starting lineup two weeks later, its a slow integration period. So it's only worth buying the right players when they become available. If they dont become available, we're better off not buying and coaching what we have...
Mate I'm neither "wetting the bed" nor "resenting the club", I'm merely questioning the wisdom of not investing in the squad for over a year. Surely as a fellow Spurs fan you'd want to see the team improved and the management team supported? That's not outrageous is it? Hasn't the Club previously stated that its aim is "always to exit a transfer window in a stronger position than it entered" said window. Why wouldn't you want that? I can understand supporters of other clubs being happy that we haven't strengthened, but not our own! Without doubt mate, it's a testament to the brilliance of our coach and his support staff that we're performing so well despite the lack of investment in the squad. And long may that success continue. So rather that "discounting their work", I celebrate it. For me, they're the best in the league, and Poch's expertise and man-management skill is instrumental. In the words of our song, "he's magic", a miracle-worker. But how long can we expect him to constantly "pull rabbits out of the hat" without backing him significantly in the transfer market? Do you genuinely believe that this lack of squad investment is sustainable mate? Can Poch be expected to just "coach what we have" indefinitely? Surely you recognise that, at the very least, it's a risky strategy moving forward?
 

BringBack_leGin

Audere est facere
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Dated October 2018 so not that long ago at all.

At a meeting with the Tottenham Hotspur Supporters' Trust on Tuesday evening at Lilywhite House, the club's offices alongside the new stadium, Levy and his team were quizzed on the lack of transfer activity and whether there would be funds for January transfers.

In the minutes of that meeting, which have now been released on the Trust's website , Levy's answers are detailed.

"Daniel Levy explained that the club had based the summer window on certain assumptions that some players might be leaving and certain targets would be available," read the minutes.

"Mauricio Pochettino didn’t want to sign someone for the sake of it. He felt there were sufficient players in the squad, and that those coming back from injury would be like new signings.

"Daniel Levy said that, concerning budgets, the stadium won’t directly impact on the transfer policy. There is a certain amount earmarked for transfers and the club can only spend what is available.

"He also said that transfers were complicated with several variables so it was not possible to work out in advance how much you could spend in a given window."

So there's money there. Some people are OK with it and that's fair enough, others frustrated, seeing it as an opportunity to 'close the gap' or show our established players some ambition and that opportunity is being missed. That's also fair enough. There's nothing wrong with holding either view.

I keep seeing the stadium given as a reason for our not spending but that's obviously not true (unless daddy is lying through his teeth) so we take what's said at face and carry on hoping.

I feel we've dodged a bullet this year where signings are concerned but we won't always get away with it, it could easily have gone tits this season..........but there's going to come a time where if we don't spend, it's certainly going to see us go backwards, all we can do is hope Nicknack and Pochettino get it right.

Personally I really don't think we'll see a repeat of the last two transfer windows this summer.
You’ve gone soft...
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
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Mate I'm neither "wetting the bed" nor "resenting the club", I'm merely questioning the wisdom of not investing in the squad for over a year. Surely as a fellow Spurs fan you'd want to see the team improved and the management team supported? That's not outrageous is it? Hasn't the Club previously stated that its aim is "always to exit a transfer window in a stronger position than it entered" said window. Why wouldn't you want that? I can understand supporters of other clubs being happy that we haven't strengthened, but not our own! Without doubt mate, it's a testament to the brilliance of our coach and his support staff that we're performing so well despite the lack of investment in the squad. And long may that success continue. So rather that "discounting their work", I celebrate it. For me, they're the best in the league, and Poch's expertise and man-management skill is instrumental. In the words of our song, "he's magic", a miracle-worker. But how long can we expect him to constantly "pull rabbits out of the hat" without backing him significantly in the transfer market? Do you genuinely believe that this lack of squad investment is sustainable mate? Can Poch be expected to just "coach what we have" indefinitely? Surely you recognise that, at the very least, it's a risky strategy moving forward?
I don’t think anyone has ever said let’s never buy anyone again.

No one has stated that we’ve started a new strategy of never buying anyone.

Frankly John, I’m struggling to muster the ‘giveafuck’ to even continue to respond to your slightly confusing irrational rage.

We’ve always bought players in transfer windows - massively so in the not so distant future, it was a full blown revolving door policy - 2 windows of not strengthening a team which is VERY good and you’re panicking that it’ll never happen again...
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
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Messages
2,809
Do you genuinely believe that this lack of squad investment is sustainable mate? Can Poch be expected to just "coach what we have" indefinitely? Surely you recognise that, at the very least, it's a risky strategy moving forward?
I think you're making a rather large assumption that the club have adopted a new strategy of buying no players. I'm struggling to see where that comes from, apart from an existing dislike of the owners. It's why this conversation is often so frustrating... you appear to be cherry picking the very worst of what we see and hear as fans and using it as the basis of an argument without any other considerations.

Have you thought about reasons why we didn't sign anybody last summer? Or did last summer solidify your existing opinion of ENIC and that was enough for you to make your mind up? The reason I ask is because this seems to happen a lot with fans of all flavours - they see a headline and if it backs up their own ideas they accept it without any further thought.

You've mentioned a couple of times of your surprise that our own fans are "happy" about not strengthening our squad. I can't speak for anybody else, but I can say that I'm not "happy" about it myself although can certainly see reasoning for it given our current situation and the objectives that Poch has spoken about not so long ago. We could call that "pragmatic" rather than "happy". And of course that's based on a single summer and would not be my feeling if we didn't strengthen repeatedly in the future.

If the stadium opens this season and we qualify for the CL but still sign no players this summer I would call that a worrying trend. If we sign nobody in the summer of 2020 as well I think it would be more fair to call it a strategy and we would have a better idea of ENIC's sporting ambition if they are still around. But to label one summer a strategy (I'm ignoring January for obvious reasons) and also label fans who try to reason it out as happy is to miss a lot of the realities of the situation in my view.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
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We see this patience thing bandied about a lot lately. So, taking into consideration we haven't won anything for ten years (more?), mitigate that with how we've improved over the past five years, when are those of you who set yourselves up to judge going to set the limit? When has 'enough' patience been shown to satisfy you? When will this be? Surely there's a point at which you move from "patience, relax, it'll come" to being a bit more anxious? For some, we've waited a long time already, so when's it allowed or accepted?

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's a tough ask to win anything, I'm in no hurry and we're at least competing which is a lot better than some of the crap I've had to watch. We'd all like it to be sooner rather than later but out of interest, I just want to know when some of you think the deadline should be, or if indeed there should be one, for all I know some people might be happy with 20 years of top 4 :D

Anyway, anyone care to satisfy my idle curiosity? When has 'enough patience' been shown so that those with less of it aren't ridiculed? :D
 
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I don’t think anyone has ever said let’s never buy anyone again.

No one has stated that we’ve started a new strategy of never buying anyone.

Frankly John, I’m struggling to muster the ‘giveafuck’ to even continue to respond to your slightly confusing irrational rage.

We’ve always bought players in transfer windows - massively so in the not so distant future, it was a full blown revolving door policy - 2 windows of not strengthening a team which is VERY good and you’re panicking that it’ll never happen again...
Wait a minute! You've just spend your previous posts stating that we don't need to buy players because, "we're doing rather well", and "better off coaching what we have than buying anyone", so make up your mind!! And that isn't a rant, it's a statement of fact: There's no "rage" at all mate. I'm not the the one using sneering language like "bed wetting". All I've done is raise concerns as to whether the lack of spending over the last year is due to the Stadium build and whether that's a trend that might continue until it's paid for. I think that's a legitimate concern; you're confident it won't be an issue moving forward. Personally I hope you're right. And I thought this might be the place to discuss that view rationally, calmly, without being attacked for doing so. But if you do feel compelled to lecture people on the cogency of their posts, at least get your tenses right: "we always bought players ..in the not so distant future"??! To use your words that's ever so "slightly confusing" chap. So why don't you "muster the giveafuck" to debate the points respectively and articulate an intelligible argument? Or are the "bed wetter" insults just an attempt to deflect from your inability to do so?
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
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I think you're making a rather large assumption that the club have adopted a new strategy of buying no players. I'm struggling to see where that comes from, apart from an existing dislike of the owners. It's why this conversation is often so frustrating... you appear to be cherry picking the very worst of what we see and hear as fans and using it as the basis of an argument without any other considerations.

Have you thought about reasons why we didn't sign anybody last summer? Or did last summer solidify your existing opinion of ENIC and that was enough for you to make your mind up? The reason I ask is because this seems to happen a lot with fans of all flavours - they see a headline and if it backs up their own ideas they accept it without any further thought.

You've mentioned a couple of times of your surprise that our own fans are "happy" about not strengthening our squad. I can't speak for anybody else, but I can say that I'm not "happy" about it myself although can certainly see reasoning for it given our current situation and the objectives that Poch has spoken about not so long ago. We could call that "pragmatic" rather than "happy". And of course that's based on a single summer and would not be my feeling if we didn't strengthen repeatedly in the future.

If the stadium opens this season and we qualify for the CL but still sign no players this summer I would call that a worrying trend. If we sign nobody in the summer of 2020 as well I think it would be more fair to call it a strategy and we would have a better idea of ENIC's sporting ambition if they are still around. But to label one summer a strategy (I'm ignoring January for obvious reasons) and also label fans who try to reason it out as happy is to miss a lot of the realities of the situation in my view.

The problem is: you're talking sense to a man who only wants hysteria...

It hasn't rained in two days, are you not worried the fact that it might never rain again!!!!!
 
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vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
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Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,809
Personally, I couldn't care less, it's a tough ask to win anything, I'm in no hurry and we're at least competing which is a lot better than some of the crap I've had to watch. We'd all like it to be sooner rather than later but out of interest, I just want to know when some of you think the deadline should be, or if indeed there should be one, for all I know some people might be happy with 20 years of top 4 :D
That's pretty much the answer in there I think. The idea of patience having a deadline isn't realistic, as is the idea of there being a set number of trophies that would constitute success.

Had we won the league cup in 3 of the last 5 seasons (and everything else stayed the same) there would still be those who would see Arsenal's achievements as greater because the FA cup is "better" than the league cup. The argument wouldn't be worded as Spurs haven't won anything, instead it would be that we haven't won anything major although the root argument in terms of player spending would be the same. Had we won 3 FA cups in that time we would be labelled a cup team, and not in a complimentary way.

Liverpool didn't win the CL last year and may not win the PL this year (fingers crossed) but it would be madness for their fans to call out FSG. You might even frame an argument that FSG have spent hundreds of millions but still couldn't win a trophy so they are even worse than ENIC! But I don't think football should be judged in such a black and white way - we should be judging more by what we see on the pitch and our ability to compete whilst also being entertaining.

I believe that our ability to compete has increased massively under ENIC but so has the difficulty of winning stuff with the rise of Chelsea and City. Our ability to compete harder still will be in part (a large part imo) based on the new stadium revenues/atmosphere although that level of competition probably won't happen overnight. So my own patience is going to be loosely tethered to the stadium opening with adjustments made based on the conditions we witness.

When us fans start focusing too much on the number of barren years etc. that's when things spill into silly season imo. Just imagine how Everton fans must feel. Or fans of Newcastle, Blackburn, West Ham, Villa and so on. Those are clubs with plenty of history but whose trophy hopes each year are desperately slim. On top of that they generally only see the truly world class players on TV and won't be watching their teams play in a world class ground like we will be soon.

So when it comes to assessing patience I think it's important to not look solely at the numbers - but instead look at what life as a Spurs fan is like. And not just in comparison to fans of the money clubs, but in comparison to all those other clubs who have tasted success in the past. I think we have things pretty sweet to be honest.
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
6,959
We see this patience thing bandied about a lot lately. So, taking into consideration we haven't won anything for ten years (more?), mitigate that with how we've improved over the past five years, when are those of you who set yourselves up to judge going to set the limit? When has 'enough' patience been shown to satisfy you? When will this be? Surely there's a point at which you move from "patience, relax, it'll come" to being a bit more anxious? For some, we've waited a long time already, so when's it allowed or accepted?

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's a tough ask to win anything, I'm in no hurry and we're at least competing which is a lot better than some of the crap I've had to watch. We'd all like it to be sooner rather than later but out of interest, I just want to know when some of you think the deadline should be, or if indeed there should be one, for all I know some people might be happy with 20 years of top 4 :D

Anyway, anyone care to satisfy my idle curiosity? When has 'enough patience' been shown so that those with less of it aren't ridiculed? :D
I've always looked at it in a sense of that song we used to sing occasionally in the 80's

K sara, sara whatever will be, will be etc, etc …….

if Spurs win trophies it's a bonus, if they don't, there's always next season:cautious:
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
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Messages
6,959
Wait a minute! You've just spend your previous posts stating that we don't need to buy players because, "we're doing rather well", and "better off coaching what we have than buying anyone", so make up your mind!! And that isn't a rant, it's a statement of fact: There's no "rage" at all mate. I'm not the the one using sneering language like "bed wetting". All I've done is raise concerns as to whether the lack of spending over the last year is due to the Stadium build and whether that's a trend that might continue until it's paid for. I think that's a legitimate concern; you're confident it won't be an issue moving forward. Personally I hope you're right. And I thought this might be the place to discuss that view rationally, calmly, without being attacked for doing so. But if you do feel compelled to lecture people on the cogency of their posts, at least get your tenses right: "we always bought players ..in the not so distant future"??! To use your words that's ever so "slightly confusing" chap. So why don't you "muster the giveafuck" to debate the points respectively and articulate an intelligible argument? Or are the "bed wetter" insults just an attempt to deflect from your inability to do so?
due to the amount of posting in here by you, and the option to view someones content even though they are on your ignore list, I'm going to reply to this, especially as 80% of my neg reps come from you. you once told me your occupation, and wished it showed through in your scruffy non paragraphed posts.

the bolded is complete bollocks, if you could view old transfer window post over the last 2 to 3 years, you have always been one of the biggest bed wetters involved.

A&C posted in here the THST quote why we never signed in the summer, and one of those reasons was mainly due to not selling enough players or any players to make room for new signings. I even know your excuse before you even post it, most probably got it in the PM's you sent somewhere, will be along the lines of "we tried to sell high, buy low", and the only evidence would be Grealish who we didn't value at what Villa wanted, but tried to sign to make us legal on HG.
 
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hakano

Active Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2005
Messages
514
The problem is: you're talking sense to man who only wants hysteria...

It hasn't rained in two days, are you not worried the fact that it might never rain again!!!!!
Just to put it into context - clubs have been banned from signing players for breaking FIFA regulations. Clubs are also threatened with transfer bans, it is seen as severe punishment. Just because @johnweldon10@hotmail.com sees it differently to you doesn't mean he is hysterical.
 

dudu

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2,718
For me the patience will dry up when we stop competing at the level we are right now. We are considered a permanent fixture at the moment in the top 6 teams in the country and have been jostling with those around us for a consistent enough period for me to be actually be quite content with our position. We are also regularly talked about as playing some of the best football in the league.

I don't seem to recall so much patience being observed the last couple of times we did win something so I have to really question if winning is the be all and end all.

Perhaps it's about building us up to a position where we can win things consistency is the answer. That's what perhaps keeps the Chelsea and Man U fans happy the last few years with their respective troubles. Despite them they are still always in contention for something.


I feel that we are on a trajectory to get there and yes, we had a slip up perhaps in that journey by not improving the squad over the last year but we haven't regressed at all as a team, we are actually doing better than previous years so as a club we still appear to be moving in the right direction. Too slowly? That's a matter of opinion.
 
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jurgen

Busy ****
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Jul 5, 2008
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We see this patience thing bandied about a lot lately. So, taking into consideration we haven't won anything for ten years (more?), mitigate that with how we've improved over the past five years, when are those of you who set yourselves up to judge going to set the limit? When has 'enough' patience been shown to satisfy you? When will this be? Surely there's a point at which you move from "patience, relax, it'll come" to being a bit more anxious? For some, we've waited a long time already, so when's it allowed or accepted?

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's a tough ask to win anything, I'm in no hurry and we're at least competing which is a lot better than some of the crap I've had to watch. We'd all like it to be sooner rather than later but out of interest, I just want to know when some of you think the deadline should be, or if indeed there should be one, for all I know some people might be happy with 20 years of top 4 :D

Anyway, anyone care to satisfy my idle curiosity? When has 'enough patience' been shown so that those with less of it aren't ridiculed? :D
As our miniature Buddha might say: 'Endurance is one of the most difficult disciplines, but it is to the one who endures that the final victory comes.' He didn't say when that'd be though :mad:

My opinion is that we've got a lucky 1-ending year coming up in under 2 years time, so if we're still barren following that, let's bust out the A4 laminator and get sign making.
 
Joined
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Messages
334
The problem is: you're talking sense to a man who only wants hysteria...

It hasn't rained in two days, are you not worried the fact that it might never rain again!!!!!
Look I've no idea why you're foaming at the mouth, hurling petulance and sarcasm around because someone has proffered a view you don't want to hear (but I suspect it's because that's a far easier recourse than trying to formulate a credible counter-argument). Quite simply, all us grown-ups are doing is debating the following questions/concerns: is the increasing cost of the Stadium build impacting the transfer budget? Is the lack of signings in the last 12 months indicative of those spiralling costs? Is that a trend that might continue until the stadium is paid for? Might we be hampered in the transfer market in the same way that the Scum have been? After the NWHL has opened, will ENIC look to invest more of the increased match day revenue in the squad, or will they continue with a "sell to buy" policy? Are ENIC actively looking to sell the Club, and if so, how might that impact on "spending power" down the line? Now, if you feel any of the above is even remotely a possibility, why not debate it respectfully? Or if you're confident that none of the above is a possibility, again I ask, why not offer that opinion in a respectful and considered way? Because when you look to close down the discussion with juvenile phrases like "you're just saying that cos you don't like the Board", or "you're just a bed wetter", "you're just being hysterical" , you literally add nothing to the debate and just make yourself look like a 14 year old child. So like I said, if you have anything constructive to add to the conversation, or if you have any answers to the above questions, please feel free to share them; allay my "hysteria". Or, of course, if that proves too challenging for you, you can always embarrass yourself with more name calling, "chap".
 

daryl hannah

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Look I've no idea why you're foaming at the mouth, hurling petulance and sarcasm around because someone has proffered a view you don't want to hear (but I suspect it's because that's a far easier recourse than trying to formulate a credible counter-argument). Quite simply, all us grown-ups are doing is debating the following questions/concerns: is the increasing cost of the Stadium build impacting the transfer budget? Is the lack of signings in the last 12 months indicative of those spiralling costs? Is that a trend that might continue until the stadium is paid for? Might we be hampered in the transfer market in the same way that the Scum have been? After the NWHL has opened, will ENIC look to invest more of the increased match day revenue in the squad, or will they continue with a "sell to buy" policy? Are ENIC actively looking to sell the Club, and if so, how might that impact on "spending power" down the line? Now, if you feel any of the above is even remotely a possibility, why not debate it respectfully? Or if you're confident that none of the above is a possibility, again I ask, why not offer that opinion in a respectful and considered way? Because when you look to close down the discussion with juvenile phrases like "you're just saying that cos you don't like the Board", or "you're just a bed wetter", "you're just being hysterical" , you literally add nothing to the debate and just make yourself look like a 14 year old child. So like I said, if you have anything constructive to add to the conversation, or if you have any answers to the above questions, please feel free to share them; allay my "hysteria". Or, of course, if that proves too challenging for you, you can always embarrass yourself with more name calling, "chap".
There's always this post form Hercules which, went under the radar a bit, I think...

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...thread-post-mortem.135469/page-5#post-6192502

Poch is not going anywhere. He is content and fiercely ambitious to succeeed with us. The spin is, we expected to of been in the NWHL. And our transfer plans was around that. As there would be external finances bought in, which would satisfy the balance sheets etc. Unfortunately, we have been frustrated, which puts restrictions on the way we want to operate, inclusive of wages.

That being said, funds were available. And a decent amount at that, but Poch did not like the subjects offered. A couple of them I disagree with his stance. But he has earned that right. Nobody is going to mention what the budget is. But there will be a good amount. Take it into mind 2 windows has passed and we have not spent, though funds were available.

I am told, and agree we have heard that before. But new stadium releases more immediate funds to add to the kitty. And with sponsorship being activated, will trigger those funds. I again see optimistic ratings coming. Personally, I think as a corporate company, and for the very least PR, we should of bought in at the very least, one player. Or announced a signing agreed for the summer. This will test the metal of Poch, more than our Daniel. Poch knows the score. I expect couple of senior players to be moved on.

VJ’s situation, we got cocked about a lot from clubs who proposed to buy him outright, and play us off until it was too late. Daniel should of taken a loan. But told that it wasn’t that straight forward.
 

LeParisien

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Joined
Mar 5, 2018
Messages
580
Patience will run out when we stagnate. So far we’ve improved year on year and over a 3 year rolling average.

Everything else is noise.
 

The Doc

Active Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2012
Messages
218
We see this patience thing bandied about a lot lately. So, taking into consideration we haven't won anything for ten years (more?), mitigate that with how we've improved over the past five years, when are those of you who set yourselves up to judge going to set the limit? When has 'enough' patience been shown to satisfy you? When will this be? Surely there's a point at which you move from "patience, relax, it'll come" to being a bit more anxious? For some, we've waited a long time already, so when's it allowed or accepted?

Personally, I couldn't care less, it's a tough ask to win anything, I'm in no hurry and we're at least competing which is a lot better than some of the crap I've had to watch. We'd all like it to be sooner rather than later but out of interest, I just want to know when some of you think the deadline should be, or if indeed there should be one, for all I know some people might be happy with 20 years of top 4 :D

Anyway, anyone care to satisfy my idle curiosity? When has 'enough patience' been shown so that those with less of it aren't ridiculed? :D
Clearly, it's Monday 25 February 2019 AD at 11:17am GMT. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a massive ****
 
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