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Levy, ENIC and DC

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dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
This is the 'we don't really belong at the top' view. That it's all down to MP or HK or a once in a lifetime squad that will never be repeated. And we have to win something now or we'll never get the chance again. I'm not surprised people are crapping themselves if that's the assumption.

But it's not how you run a football club. One day MP will go. Might be next year, might be five years. Or ten. Who knows? Same for Harry Kane. But the owners have to look at the longer term and put the club on a platform where we can attract good managers, good players and compete on a permanent basis. I'm fairly happy that that's what Levy/ENIC are doing. They're not perfect, they make mistakes - but the overall direction is positive.

Of course you have to look at the longer term, but if you ignore the short/medium then the long term vision can suffer. The best time to invest is from a position of strength.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
From one condescending prick to another:-

Lack of signings doesn't equate to lack of success, in my opinion.

We haven't played a game yet and our own fans are writing the season off as we didn't sign anyone - that seems petty and childish. Calling it a disgrace and demanding heads roll for no signings wreaks of a petulant screaming child in a dept. store.

I'm sure Poch has his opinions on the TW and i'm sure you have as little knowledge of those opinions as any of us - so good one on making up what they may be to support your idea, that makes you look real smart (y)

Who are we meant to have signed??
If there was a chance for top CM, i would have loved it and i'm fairly confident the club would have made it happen if possible. The same if deals for other targets were feasible...

Im excited to see what this group of players can do this season. We've been steadily progressing season-by-season. Our CL performance was great to watch last year - we had really kicked on from the previous years showing. Cup runs were exciting, didn't quite crack the semis again, but we're richer in experience from it.

:eek: No cup for top4? That is a shock.... I really am shocked to the core - I demand a complete re-shuffle of the FA heirachy immediately!

I’m not saying you are a condescending prick, I’m saying that post made you come across as one. (I’m always one).

Chelsea finished below us and managed to sign two central midfielders that would walk into our team. Obviously it is difficult to compete when we don’t have Courtois to use as bait, or unlimited funds - but the line from many at the start of the window was that we would be competing at the top table.

Ndombele or Brozovic would have been my choices, but imo - Levy didn’t acclimate to the new market. It’s cliche, but he expected 2018 prices for our players whilst signing gems for 2008 prices. We sat on our hands because Levy wanted our players to boost their values in the World Cup - when we weren’t inundated with bids during or after the tournament, I think that was the nail in this transfer window’s coffin.

I’m not saying I can read Poch’s mind (I’m not saying I can’t either) but from what he said at the start of the window, he clearly had to change tact at the end as he realised Levy wasn’t going to do anything. It went from “we’ll do our business before the World Cup” (technically true) to “its difficult to sign players”. Obviously it is difficult, I’m not saying it isn’t - but it isn’t impossible. It’s confusing by the club, because it paid the going rate for Sanchez last year - and it is insane to me to think that it felt there were 0 players in world football that it would be worth investing in this summer.

We finished 3rd and yes our players will get better - but so will everybody else’s. Our CM options are actually quite scary when you think about it. Dembele, Wanyama and Winks are always seemingly on the precipice of being crocked. I actually don’t hate Dier there but he does have weaknesses. Skipp looks good and if he came in and was able to perform in the prem - brilliant.

From what JJ said on Twitter last night - it’s still possible that we will sell Toby, Rose or Dembele - that would leave us drastically short imo.

Now - I don’t want people to think I only think of negatives. I’m also excited. The new stadium will be amazing and Kane will be absolutely starving for goals. Eriksen, Dele, Son, Sanchez should all be better this year too. Winks, Lamela, Lucas and Aurier integrating and getting more minutes will be cool. Lamela and Lucas could be *CLICHE AGAIN* like new signings.

Can't believe we didnt do big net spend.

Quicker to just say “no”, pal.
 
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SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,125
6,743
And if we have a good year, improve on last season?

How have you prepared for that eventuality?
You really think given our transfer activity, other teams improvements & world cup pre-season where we probably needed some new blood more than others we're going to better 3rd? Besides what happens it's about giving us the best possible chance, Liverpool may not win the league but their owner has given them a chance by responding to what the manager needed, over the years we've had multiple chances to aim big and missed the boat where a top signing or two would have made the difference, this isn't the only year ENIC have let us down, although by ENIC's standards they've set a new ambitious low.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
Oh, shut up. What a muggy, condescending prick you come across in this post. "If you don't agree with how I feel about the situation, you must be a sulking baby".

Finishing top four shouldn't be the peak of our ambition. We are already there and it would have been good to push on. As a fan, I'd love us to win a trophy more than once every decade, because (and this might come as a shock to you) we don't actually get one for finishing in the top four.

I'm not upset that we didn't sign anybody for signing somebody sake. I'm annoyed because it is abundantly clear that Poch wanted backing in the market and that hasn't happened. Of course he is going to toe the company line and make out he's happy, but without doubt he is going to be justifiably disappointed.

The inactivity of the board this transfer window belies the ambition of the players we have and the coaching staff we have. If you can't see the reason why people are irritated, it's because you're stupid.

Nobody is going to stop supporting Spurs either, sorry. We'll all support the club, just as much as you - so you won't be living in your happy clapping utopia any time soon.

Images of glasshouses full of pots and kettles, all of which are black.
 

DaSpurs

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2013
11,816
13,655
Long post alert.

First off, lets ignore the usual fan bollocks of 'this was the summer we needed to go for it', that's been said every summer for about 8 years now :sleep: I read a lot of posts on here and across social media and they seem to come across as that if we did win a title then that's the finish line, and everything stops. Time stands still. That one big targeted investment and then things are completed..... Ignoring what happens after that, that there would be even more pressure on us and more demands as sugar daddy clubs splurged even more money to catch up, and pressure on us to respond. It is always an ongoing process, and I believe has to be built sustainably.

There are multiple factors at work. The stadium being one of them. Fans need to engage their brains - As much as Levy/board will say for PR reasons it doesn't impact on spending (and that is probably true, relevant to our 'normal' levels of spending), we aren't even in the new gaff yet to enjoy any benefit of extra revenues and are still in the delicate phase of trying to finance/refinance and cover the costs. This wasn't the point where we would go on some mega money splurge, I'd have been amazed if we had. IIRC Poch himself even gave it to us straight not to expect big money signings just because we got a new stadium. Now I don't think anyone took that as no signings at all, and maybe there are other factors that have led to a sense of expectation of bigger spends such as an increase in ticket prices, but I think the fanbase by and large have constructed some fantasy narrative as to what was going to happen this summer.


Another factor is that the club seems to prioritise, pretty much annually going on their record of giving contracts, keeping the squad together, keeping those here who have contributed rewarded, and staying ahead of the game in terms of the players futures. There is a current issue with Alderweireld (who from the very start though, given the rumoured clauses in his contract, I suspect has largely seen us/this contract as a stepping stone to bigger things) but on the whole we never have contract issues and the club benefits from this. Yes people could point out (numerous) transfer duds and it hasn't all been perfect, but on the whole this environment has, especially recently, provided a platform where we have a stable core with players giving many years service and growing both themselves and as a team.

As an example, Kane this summer has gone from a rumoured circa 100k a week to 200k. Throw in no doubt bigger bonuses, signing on fees, agent fees, image rights stuff etc. then we might well be committing something like an extra 10m expenditure just by giving out that one contract. Now that is the biggest and most obvious example, but start giving new contracts across the squad and that's a decent chunk of resources committed, just on existing players rather than any new ones.....


And I haven't even got to the crux of it yet, how the club is set up to operate and what is Levy's way. Most of football - fans, media, even the players and people who run clubs themselves - are conditioned to the thought that whoever splashes the most money wins. Now that will likely be the case always, especially when everyone follows this same model, but that's never been ENIC's way. Levy isn't prepared, nor has the resources, to compete in this way, so tries to do it differently - and across his tenure has taken us on an upward trajectory. Firstly with the buying of young players who will grow the team, as individuals, and in value if they then leave. With that becoming harder and harder in the present market there's been investment in the academy and a rise in homegrown players after years of drought, and now the stadium.

I suspect Levy's ultimate aim is to compete, and win, by developing our own players and then supplementing them with high quality imports. We might not be able to buy a whole team of stars, but if we only have to buy half of it and the rest is developed in house...... Now that takes time, and I think there will be a lot of people, particularly youth watchers etc, who would say that if this is the vision and aim then the initial good work needs building on even further, and there will be a lot of fans who fair enough don't believe this approach is possible, or have the patience to wait for that to bear fruit or think they should have to wait that long, but to get to the very top up against petrodollar clubs then we will have to do something different. As our manager says, be brave, and forge a unique path.


As for this summer, and on the transfer front and how our squad now is, yes a bit disappointing/concerning but we are not in a disastrous position. Unique factors such as World Cup participation, and a few injuries don't help, but there aren't many holes in the squad. I don't know what's happened in terms of our main targets, but if we have adopted a policy of just shutting up shop rather than acting in desperation then I can understand that and actually don't mind it - how often has Plan D squad filler for the sake of it signings actually worked, or contributed anything? I'm not panicking about falling away as of now..... Quite honestly spending zero could see us fall out of the top four, but I think spending 200 million that could also happen. There are six teams and it's fine margins every year.

Personally I thought we needed two signings - a central midfielder who can dictate/run the game, and a Number 9 focal point striker that Poch loves and always has in his team. For the CM I do think it is a deficiency, but it does give Winks (on a more consistent basis) and hopefully Onomah a chance to establish themselves. If they do, great, and I think taking a chance on what we already have is much more logical than 'taking a punt on some young midfielder' as I have seen numerous times this week. As for the striker, it seems Poch is giving Llorente another chance, he hasn't banished him a la Janssen and others he hasn't rated (even ones he himself has signed), he's earned that right as manager. We will see.....

I don't believe we will be going away from 4-2-3-1, Poch always goes back to it, so we have enough attacking midfielders and Moura is a new signing effectively. Links to Martial and Zaha made no sense to me. I have concerns about Toby and especially Rose, but I'm ok with giving them the opportunity to get back to 100% (plus slowly transitioning out Dembele).


Ultimately it's how you see it. Overall I'd say it's a constant, rather slow, sustainable build within certain parameters and following a different path to the norm. Mistakes are made along the way, I'd do some things differently, but also come many good things. Some people, like me, wont mind that - the hard challenge of building something, hopefully developing our own players and style of play etc and then hopefully winning, appeals to me. Others, perfectly reasonably, have no time for all that, just want money spent and the best players and trophies ASAP. I think they have a while to wait for that though.....

Agreed verbatim.

My question to those freaking out is, where did you think we needed to sign a difference maker, and who in realistic consideration did you expect that we could/would bring in?

Zaha or Martial? Martial still has yet to prove himself as a consistent player in this league despite his potential, and we don’t know how he’d fare in adjusting to Poch’s system. Zaha? This one to me seemed like an attempt to load the HG count while adding a decent Prem attacker. Sure, he put up a decent goal tally last year and I cannot deny that he might do even better with our side, but it would be yet more competition for easily our most crowded positions. Moura has looked quality in preseason, and we simply don’t know how he will do with more time in Poch’s system and with this squad. While crucial players for us played at the World Cup such as Son and Eriksen, and even more so in Dele, Moura has been present for the entire preseason. I like him to start on Saturday, and I think he’ll do well.

Llorente also looks to be reflecting Poch’s persistent confidence in him. He’s looked quality in preseason, and looks ready to go.

As for central midfield, where is this all action playmaker people wanted? I like the look of the Lubotka kid, but despite his lovely highlight reels, he contributed to all of zero goals directly. I know, CM stats n assist before the assist n wot not, but no assists isn’t amazing for a playmaking mid. Kovacic, who Chelsea couldn’t even manage to secure a buy option for? Fuck that, we’ve developed enough players for Real Madrid in this decade. Lewis Cook, yet another HG count fattener, he probably won’t even be better than Winks in the long run? So where is this all action playmaker? My belief is that the club would have been much more urgent to get a CM in had Dembele opted for one of his options to leave, but he did not. He’ll provide coverage until guys like Winks and Onomah are back, and of course we had some young kids for the positions who did stunningly well in preseason. I don’t have enough words for how impressed I was with Amos and Skipp.

So where do people think we would have made the difference, and realistically? I get the talk of ambition and all, but where would it have manifested? Where are these players who would have ejected our established players with such glorious quality?
 

Khilari

Plumber. Sort of.
Jun 19, 2008
3,461
5,287
Pretty obvious the plan all along was to spend fuckall and plough the club's footballing profits into the stadium.

All a bit disgusting when you consider how much money Enic will walk away with when they sell up.

Disgusting? They are a business. Have invested massively in the club and taken it from 25 years of mid-table mediocrity to regular top 4 and potential title challengers with the world’s best facilities, stadium and some if the best players in the world.

Disappointing? Probably. I agree it feels like a missed opportunity but Levy is a businessman and next Spurs fan so is balancing the need for profit and stable finances.

Portsmouth, Coventry, Leeds, Forest fans amongst many others will tell you the pain for chasing success beyond out means.

I think ENIC will take us to a place where we are on a stable financial footing. Not much debt, generating an income through season ticket and corporate sales and NFL franchising. I don’t know whether they will then be willing to push us on to the Man Utd / Liverpool / Chelsea spending level but more likely follow the Arsenal model.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
Images of glasshouses full of pots and kettles, all of which are black.

You preparing material for your stand up show? I wouldn’t open with it. In fact, I’d scrap the idea - because you’re about as funny as the Ebola epidemic was.

A rapier wit you are not. You’re a BTEC BBLG without the boyish good looks.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
9,429
12,382
Nah.

Every team ever (except Spurs 2018) have bought players in the transfer window, each window. So... every team ever is better than they were 5/10/15 years ago?

You will argue that as a fact , yeah? Utd are better than under Fergie after spending 1/2 billion or whatever?

I could quite as easily draw a correlation between teams dealing in the transfer window and getting worse. Because every team that has gone backwards over the last 5 - 10 years has been buying and selling players in the preceding transfer window(s).





How can every team be better after a transfer window if ultimately its still the same pool of players who have just been shifted around, surely the sum total can only ever be the same.

Maybe I dont understand the science of this. Lets Just do some 'net spend' and get a kid from division 1 for 28million.

Teams become better or worse respective to each other, not because the industry-standard methodology they use is flawed, but because they execute the methodology better or worse than their competitors.

In zero-sum games, this is at the heart of the environment in which you'll be operating in.

For a football club, there are 6 or 7 key areas you have to get right, just like in any organisation; the transfer market is one of those key areas.

If you fail in any of these areas, then it's a massive disadvantage to you if your competitors get it right. This failure is amplified if you're starting from a position of relative weakness in the first place (e.g. when we go up against the likes of City).

For an elite organisation, which prides itself on its competitiveness, it's unacceptable not to strive for high performance in all areas.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
Statement from THST

THFC’s inability to make any improvements during the summer transfer window to a squad that is so close to achieving great things has dismayed many fans.

As a Supporters’ Trust, it is not our job to involve ourselves in on-field matters. But we have a responsibility to voice the concerns of our fans about the Club’s ambition and strategy on the pitch. And to ask for a full and believable explanation of how this transfer window has played out.

We do not believe in spending money or signing players for the sake of it. We recognise the achievement in keeping our squad together, for now at least, and in getting key players to agree new contracts. And we commend manager Mauricio Pochettino’s professionalism in his deadline day press conference. He has shown once again his ability to make the most of what he is given.

We have much to be proud of at Spurs. Nine of our players featured in the World Cup semi-finals. Over the last few years, a manager we revere has forged an exciting team that has challenged for top honours. And more fans than the Club cares to acknowledge recognise the challenges and achievements of running a sustainable business and building a top class stadium.

But fans come to watch the team. A team that will start the season with many of its key members still tired after the World Cup. And a squad that most rational observers would agree could benefit from more depth. It is not unreasonable to question if it was really the case that, alone among Europe’s top clubs, Spurs could find no player who would improve their squad while our rivals strengthened theirs.

Earlier this year, the Club objected to THST’s criticism of steep ticket price rises. It told us we could not expect players to be signed or wages to be competitive while we opposed those ticket price rises. Fans have paid the prices asked. And yet no signings have been made.

We know that gate receipts are no longer as fundamental as they once were for financing transfer fees or wages. But ticketing income at Spurs is now higher than it has ever been. We are curious as to what that money has been used for. We have been told the stadium build will not affect transfer spending.

We are told that we don’t have to sign players because we develop our youth. Yet four of our most promising prospects left the Club this summer. Of the current first team squad, just two regulars have come up through the ranks.

We love what has been developed, but for all the great football we’ve seen over the last few seasons, there are no trophies to show.

We have the highest paid Chairman in the Premier League. Our fans pay some of the highest prices in world football. Our support for our team and our admiration for what has been achieved remains strong. However, we believe fans are entitled to a full and credible explanation of what has happened this summer.

THST Board
9 August 2018
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
You preparing material for your stand up show? I wouldn’t open with it. In fact, I’d scrap the idea - because you’re about as funny as the Ebola epidemic was.

A rapier wit you are not. You’re a BTEC BBLG without the boyish good looks.

Preparing? I'm performing it at Edinburgh as we speak. Person calls person a prick and stupid on football fans site.
 

midoNdefoe

the member formerly and technically still known as
Mar 9, 2005
3,107
3,166
You preparing material for your stand up show? I wouldn’t open with it. In fact, I’d scrap the idea - because you’re about as funny as the Ebola epidemic was.

A rapier wit you are not. You’re a BTEC BBLG without the boyish good looks.

Really? He’s made a fair point...

You do seem to be going all out to pip the 2004 fisting champion to ‘biggest **** around’ title, at the moment...

I’m mostly disappointed as I seem to recall enjoying your posts pre-TW
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
Really? He’s made a fair point...

You do seem to be going all out to pip the 2004 fisting champion to ‘biggest **** around’ title, at the moment...

I’m mostly disappointed as I seem to recall enjoying your posts pre-TW

I'm still a world class poster, I'm just annoyed.

Aside from saying your post made you look a condescending prick and calling CowinaComa's posts idiotic, I've been fairly civil. Nobody has actually countered any of the points I've made with a valid argument, instead focusing on inane details because I'm right. You're the one actually trying to call names and shit, I already explained in my longer post I weren't calling you a prick. Unfortunately for you, and CoyBoy, I couldn't give less of a shit about insults.

Would love to know what fair point you think he made? His implication was that I was a condescending prick, which I already said I was.

Anyway, let's not make this another thread about how great I am - this is about Levy and the board. That THST statement is incredibly fair, but will be ignored, imo.
 

CowInAComa

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
7,293
18,237
Teams become better or worse respective to each other, not because the industry-standard methodology they use is flawed, but because they execute the methodology better or worse than their competitors.

In zero-sum games, this is at the heart of the environment in which you'll be operating in.

For a football club, there are 6 or 7 key areas you have to get right, just like in any organisation; the transfer market is one of those key areas.

If you fail in any of these areas, then it's a massive disadvantage to you if your competitors get it right. This failure is amplified if you're starting from a position of relative weakness in the first place (e.g. when we go up against the likes of City).

For an elite organisation, which prides itself on its competitiveness, it's unacceptable not to strive for high performance in all areas.

The funny thing is, I dont disagree with you regarding getting the TW right as being a key success factor.

I do disagree with the assumption that we didnt get this window right or more specifically that we got this window 'wrong'. I think the fact the we maintained the same squad that have got us 3/2/3rd in succession is nothing short of miraculous (and for my money position aside I think we have improved in each of these years if you take cup runs and mentality into the picture).

High performance is about not getting it wrong as much as getting it right. I think we made enquiries but ultimately nothing suited our agenda. For me doing no business was a valid option. and could well turn out to be the right one. - it certainly doesnt warrant all the hysterics.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
I thought compared to the majestic wit and insight of my posts it was fairly average

Yeah but we can't compare everyone's posts to you, it wouldn't be fair.

This isn't the time for majestic wit. This is the time for toys being thrown out of prams in the direction of everyone's favourite diminutive bald Chairman.
 
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