Let's All Laugh At... Let's all wonder what's going on at United?

[nailsy]

Interesting one with Shaw.
Jason Dodd has said that Shaw is one of those players that doesn't tend to react particularly well to orders, prefers an arm round the shoulder and quiet chat, which is probably why Jose is having issues with him, and why he flourished under Poch at Southampton.
Is Jose bullying/abusing him, or is he just trying to get through to him??

In most other industries it would be bullying. It seems to be accepted in football for some reason though.

 

['O Zio]

In most other industries it would be bullying. It seems to be accepted in football for some reason though.

I don't think it is to be honest. By all accounts he's not exactly a model professional, Mourinho isn't the first manager to say it, even Poch talks about it in his book, so for all we know Shaw has been told multiple times by Jose privately to sort himself the fuck out but refuses to listen and Jose's just at his wits end with him. In any other industry you'd just get sacked but that's not how it works in football.

 

[Riandor]

I don't think it is to be honest. By all accounts he's not exactly a model professional, Mourinho isn't the first manager to say it, even Poch talks about it in his book, so for all we know Shaw has been told multiple times by Jose privately to sort himself the fuck out but refuses to listen and Jose's just at his wits end with him. In any other industry you'd just get sacked but that's not how it works in football.

In any other industry you would hand in your notice and go elsewhere.

Shaw is happy to to cash in on what is an exhorbitant contract for his age and stature and then run it down and leave on a free if Mourinho stays, or see what a new manager brings should Jose leave.

Too much money in the game/clubs over spend and hand average players too much money, so they have zero incentive to leave.

 

['O Zio]

In any other industry you would hand in your notice and go elsewhere.

Shaw is happy to to cash in on what is an exhorbitant contract for his age and stature and then run it down and leave on a free if Mourinho stays, or see what a new manager brings should Jose leave.

Too much money in the game/clubs over spend and hand average players too much money, so they have zero incentive to leave.

Well exactly. That being said, it didn't seem like Shaw pushed too hard for a move over the summer so he's obviously not that upset by it all and as you say he's happy to just sit around collecting his money by the looks of it.

Basically, given the fact that (off the top of my head) Pochettino, Hodgeson, Van Gaal and Mourinho have all publicly commented saying much the same things i.e. not fit enough, not prepared to put the work in, unprofessional etc. I don't think this is quite the "bullying" sob-story some people are trying to make it into. I'd say Shaw is just as much to blame as anyone if what's being said about him is true, and given that his last 4 managers have all said the same things about him, I reckon the chances of them all just being mean bullies making up mean stories about him out of thin air is rather slim. Far more likely is that he's just a lazy twat who thinks he's a big-shot because he had one good season at Southampton.

 

[Shadydan]

It's clear as day Mourinho is picking on him.

 

[ikky]

It's clear as day Mourinho is picking on him.

Awww diddums

 

[nailsy]

I don't think it is to be honest. By all accounts he's not exactly a model professional, Mourinho isn't the first manager to say it, even Poch talks about it in his book, so for all we know Shaw has been told multiple times by Jose privately to sort himself the fuck out but refuses to listen and Jose's just at his wits end with him. In any other industry you'd just get sacked but that's not how it works in football.

Most companies have some employees doing an average and unspectacular job. They don't all get sacked. If you were to call them out for it in public, in front of other employees, you could be looking at bullying/harrasment charges. If the manager isnt happy with him, dont play him, or sell him. What Jose is doing is pretty much the definition of workplace harrasment, "hurtful or embarrassing attempts to undermine an individual worker or groups of workers".

 

['O Zio]

Most companies have some employees doing an average and unspectacular job. They don't all get sacked. If you were to call them out for it in public, in front of other employees, you could be looking at bullying/harrasment charges. If the manager isnt happy with him, dont play him, or sell him. What Jose is doing is pretty much the definition of workplace harrasment, "hurtful or embarrassing attempts to undermine an individual worker or groups of workers".

But he’s not just doing a below-par job. As I’ve said before I think it’s fairly obvious that the problem isn’t his ability, it’s that he’s supposedly got a terrible attitude and is unprofessional and not committed to training etc. and that’s been backed up by various other managers including Poch.

For example, if I was late to work, didn’t do what my boss told me, putting in minimum effort etc. then I would probably be sacked or at the very least called out on it. I don’t call that bullying to be honest

 

[Deleted member 25918]

No player is bigger than the team. Especially not a 22 year old who has been pretty average since returning from injury.

I think it’s better to have a bunch of good players with a team spirit than a team of awesome players who don’t gel. If he is disruptive and upsets the apple cart, he is bound to be called out. Truth is we don’t really know what goes on, but if he’s had the same feedback from everyone surely the issue is with him not the rest of the world.

I wouldn’t want him to join us in any deal, especially not with Rose leaving. As, unlike Aurier who acknowledges he was a douche, Shaw doesn’t seem to realise he has work to do to grow the hell up!

 

[DogsOfWar]

But he’s not just doing a below-par job. As I’ve said before I think it’s fairly obvious that the problem isn’t his ability, it’s that he’s supposedly got a terrible attitude and is unprofessional and not committed to training etc. and that’s been backed up by various other managers including Poch.

For example, if I was late to work, didn’t do what my boss told me, putting in minimum effort etc. then I would probably be sacked or at the very least called out on it. I don’t call that bullying to be honest

I'm not sure the issue is calling him out, it's more being singled out on TV at the national level.
This sort of stuff should be dealt with in the manager's office.

 

[Armstrong_11]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...United-fans-song-sheets-boost-atmosphere.html

Hey Jose... Here is a suggestion... How about actually giving the fans something to cheer about?

 

[nailsy]

But he’s not just doing a below-par job. As I’ve said before I think it’s fairly obvious that the problem isn’t his ability, it’s that he’s supposedly got a terrible attitude and is unprofessional and not committed to training etc. and that’s been backed up by various other managers including Poch.

For example, if I was late to work, didn’t do what my boss told me, putting in minimum effort etc. then I would probably be sacked or at the very least called out on it. I don’t call that bullying to be honest

As @DogsOfWar says the issue is repeatedly telling the media that he's not good enough. If he isn't performing then by all means speak to him in private, tell him whats expected and if he doesn't meet the required level leave him out of the team. The comments in the media just seem designed to embarrass him. And what does Jose think will he'll achieve anyway? All he seem's to be doing is forcing the player out of the club while devaluing the value of him as an asset.

 

[Riandor]

The issue is though that Football is not played in a private sphere. It is a game played out in front of the world and the world wants to know what it is going on. If Jose said nothing about Shaw, then the fans of United and the media would make it up, or scream when he isn't being played.

Footballers are in the public domain, thus they are more like actors (in fact actors often get more privacy), they are paid vast somes of money to be in this priviliged Situation and must take the rough with the smooth.

That's not to say I agree with Jose, he has seemingly lost the plot. Where he used to Play the psychological game with the fans and the media to protect his Players, he seems happier to feed them to the dogs these days, but maybe that's the downside of working with a bunch of overpaid divas at a Club with such high expectations.

Still, if SHaw was available and Poch sanctioned the move, then it would at least be because he recognises the Players potential and believes he can overcome any personality issues. The lad is only 22 after all. IF Poch is even interested.

 

['O Zio]

I'm not sure the issue is calling him out, it's more being singled out on TV at the national level.
This sort of stuff should be dealt with in the manager's office.

There's a couple of things with that though

a) how do we know Mourinho hasn't talked to him privately till he's blue in the face already and has resorted to this as a last resort?
b) we don't know quite how big a twat Shaw is when he's at the training ground. The being singled out could be completely deserved
c) Mourinho also talks about him a lot because he's always asked about him. If he says nothing then people just question it more so maybe he's just decided to be honest and say Shaw doesn't like to put the effort in in training and that's why he's not playing

 

['O Zio]

As @DogsOfWar says the issue is repeatedly telling the media that he's not good enough. If he isn't performing then by all means speak to him in private, tell him whats expected and if he doesn't meet the required level leave him out of the team. The comments in the media just seem designed to embarrass him. And what does Jose think will he'll achieve anyway? All he seem's to be doing is forcing the player out of the club while devaluing the value of him as an asset.

I don't think Mourinho is questioning his ability. He's said before that Shaw is the best LB in the league so he obviously rates him ability-wise. The issue is that he's not prepared to put the effort in in training either to get to a suitable fitness level or to get a handle on Mourinho's tactics/gameplan. Like I say, I'm sure Mourinho has spoken to him umpteen times in private as well and is just fed up with him and/or fed up with being asked about him so is just being honest. Like I said before, everything Mourinho is saying is 100% believable because it's been said by other managers as well

 

[nailsy]

I don't think Mourinho is questioning his ability. He's said before that Shaw is the best LB in the league so he obviously rates him ability-wise. The issue is that he's not prepared to put the effort in in training either to get to a suitable fitness level or to get a handle on Mourinho's tactics/gameplan. Like I say, I'm sure Mourinho has spoken to him umpteen times in private as well and is just fed up with him and/or fed up with being asked about him so is just being honest. Like I said before, everything Mourinho is saying is 100% believable because it's been said by other managers as well

You and @Riandor both make good points about being in the public eye and to a certain point I'd accept that there will be some criticism of players made public, but it's the repeated nature of this that makes it damaging. Even if Maureen has spoken to him in private a hundred times and is frustrated it doesn't really give him the right to try and embarrass him in public. As I said earlier though the usual rules don't seem to apply to football. If one of our managers here tried to give our team the full hairdryer treatment after the end of Month End, shouting and screaming at them about how bad the journal vouchers were then half the office would end up in tears, and the manager would be called in to HR before the end of the day. What we've got in the United situation is a player who doesn't train well enough and a manager with a proven record of throwing players (Casillias) and staff (Eva Carneiro) under the bus. It's just not going to end well for either of them.

 

[Col_M]

Has the media stopped talking about being knocked out of the CL ? Yes. mission accomplished.

 

[VegasII]

Mourinho needs to go gilet shopping with Sherwood.

 

[NinjaTuna]

https://twitter.com/NLAHamilton/status/975800970159456262?s=19

Nice one, lads

 

[TheChosenOne]

Zlatan gone ...

#MUFC has agreed to the termination of Zlatan Ibrahimovic’s contract with immediate effect.

Club statement: manutd.co/Kr4

https://twitter.com/manutd/status/976873938386071552?s=21