Let's All Laugh At... Let's all laugh at talksport

Shadydan

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Calling Lukaku lazy isn't racist let's be clear before we carry on with this discussion, it's not racist to give anyone an adjective. However his point is that calling Lukaku lazy feeds into a negative stereotype about black people especially when you compare him to other strikers like Aguero who wouldn't work as much as Lukaku did on the pitch, this is the issue here. He's pointing out that negative stereotypes have racial connotations attached to them whether people mean to say it or not, he's not saying that it's racist.

Negative stereotyping fuels covert racism.
 
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Shadydan

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That's a different problem though, this is a media bias problem, not racism from the general population.

Aguero moves around, he's smart with where he places himself to split up defenders, he wanders slowly out of position and drags people with him, he makes dangerous areas on the pitch by seeing gaps opening up and making moves toward them. He's doing a lot of work keeping the midfield and defenders on their toes knowing he could break on them any minute. Lukaku doesn't do any of that. He hangs around with his marker and creates no threat until someone delivers him the ball. He hasn't got the pace to suddenly run on to a long ball or skin his man and he doesn't appear to adapt his game for it.

This has nothing to do with his colour - Linekar was a bit of a lazy player too, he was a proper goal hanger for a long time. Berbatov was a lazy player - its nothing to do with their heritage or skin colour, but the media have been pulled up for this a few times and there is plenty of evidence to prove that they do have a bias in the way they report on footballers. It's that needs addressing, not fans who call a sp... ah, fuck it... erm, a rose by any other name?

phew, that was close... was nearly my grandad for a second! ;)
lol You've unintentionally just pretty much proved his point there, Lukaku doesn't stand around and wait for the ball, he's constantly dragging defenders out wide and making runs in the channels, that's what his game has been buiit on ever since he came from Anderlecht.

He's been doing that for around 8 years of his professional career and here we have people still questioning his work ethic.

This is the perception the term gives to people it creates a false narrative about them and people buy into it without thinking about it.
 

'O Zio

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This is pretty much his point though.
When compared to Aguero, who before Pep came, used to just stand around waiting for the ball to come to him...not once was he ever labelled lazy.
Lukaku on the other hand...
Calling Lukaku lazy isn't racist let's be clear before we carry on with this discussion, it's not racist to give anyone an adjective. However his point is that calling Lukaku lazy feeds into a negative stereotype about black people especially when you compare him to other strikers like Aguero who wouldn't work as much as Lukaku did on the pitch, this is the issue here. He's pointing out that negative stereotypes have racial connotations attached to them whether people mean to say it or not, he's not saying that it's racist.

Negative stereotyping fuels covert racism.
I agree that there are some players that the media only portray in a certain way to suit the narrative, and that is not OK, but I don't agree that it's all racially driven. It's not exclusively black players who are targeted and it's not exclusively white players who can do no wrong either. There are examples of both.
 

Rocksuperstar

just a child getting older...
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lol You've unintentionally just pretty much proved his point there, Lukaku doesn't stand around and wait for the ball, he's constantly dragging defenders out wide and making runs in the channels, that's what his game has been buiit on ever since he came from Anderlecht.

He's been doing that for around 8 years of his professional career and here we have people still questioning his work ethic.

This is the perception the term gives to people it creates a false narrative about them and people buy into it without thinking about it.
No, I am flat out telling you that there is no race element to what i am saying. From my perspective he is a lazy player - granted, I don't go out of my way to watch him as you apparently have, but from the times i have seen him then the word I would use to describe his style is lazy.

Not because he's black, not because he's tall, not because he has hairy feet - this is another big fault that we've started to really get muddy with - deciding what other people really mean. I know what I meant, why would anyone need to tag on an irellevant, imaginary reason to make me at fault? It's a weak way to win a debate and infers that I have some sort of agenda.

When discussing his workrate and deciding how to describe that I am not taking into consideration his colour. To do so would be racist in iteself.
 

Shadydan

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No, I am flat out telling you that there is no race element to what i am saying. From my perspective he is a lazy player - granted, I don't go out of my way to watch him as you apparently have, but from the times i have seen him then the word I would use to describe his style is lazy.

Not because he's black, not because he's tall, not because he has hairy feet - this is another big fault that we've started to really get muddy with - deciding what other people really mean. I know what I meant, why would anyone need to tag on an irellevant, imaginary reason to make me at fault? It's a weak way to win a debate and infers that I have some sort of agenda.

When discussing his workrate and deciding how to describe that I am not taking into consideration his colour. To do so would be racist in iteself.
Take a moment and breathe, move away from the racist angle as I'm haven't even mentioned that in my post - re-read my post and please comprehend.

I'm not saying that there's a race element I'm saying that your perspective of him is wrong, now whether you have that perspective of him from just watching him or listening to the media but you couldn't be more wrong.

These sentences...

hangs around with his marker and creates no threat until someone delivers him the ball


He hasn't got the pace to suddenly run on to a long ball or skin his man and he doesn't appear to adapt his game for it.
Both nonsense, I don't know why you're describing but that doesn't sound like Lukaku.

And we were taking about Aguero pre Pep when he didn't work as hard as he is working now hence why Pep dropped him, so the comparison is valid. Lukaku has and still is seen as lazy by some yet he isn't yet Aguero was never been called lazy before Pep yet if you watch him closely you'd argue that he could be easily described as that.

From your perspective he may be a lazy player but the stats won't back that up.
 
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Take a moment and breathe, move away from the racist angle as I'm haven't even mentioned that in my post - re-read my post and please comprehend.

I'm not saying that there's a race element I'm saying that your perspective of him is wrong, now whether you have that perspective of him from just watching him or listening to the media but you couldn't be more wrong.

These sentences...





Both nonsense, I don't know why you're describing but that doesn't sound like Lukaku.

And we were taking about Aguero pre Pep when he didn't work as hard as he is working now hence why Pep dropped him, so the comparison is valid. Lukaku has and still is seen as lazy by some yet he isn't yet Aguero was never been called lazy before Pep yet if you watch him closely you'd argue that he could be easily described as that.

From your perspective he may be a lazy player but the stats won't back that up.
Shady you’re using Aguero as an example because Durham used him. But let’s compare Lukaku’s situation with Berbatov’s. Berba was called lazy by all and sundry at Spurs and at Utd, so it’s a perfect comparison because they both play/played for the same team. As I said earlier if Lukaku was scoring goals as Aguero still was when he was allegedly lazy, then it doesn’t really get picked up. This is what Berba was doing, although he was still called out as lazy by all fans and media when he had shit games because when he wasn’t on his game, he didn’t offer much else aside from decent hold up play.

Forgetting about Aguero as Durham’s only example, what do you think about this example? Everything you said that wasn’t being said about Aguero pre Pep, WAS being said about Berba his whole career.

The point I’m trying to make is that you say negative stereotyping fuels racism but you should be allowed to say if you genuinely think a black player is lazy without it being a negative stereotype. I might be wrong but it sounds like you’re almost saying you shouldn’t criticise a black player just in case it’s inadvertently racist even if someone genuinely believes they’re giving constructive criticism. Would anyone blink an eyelid if it was a black pundit saying Lukaku was lazy?

Anyway, xmas do approaching fast.... 🕺🏻
 

Shadydan

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Shady you’re using Aguero as an example because Durham used him. But let’s compare Lukaku’s situation with Berbatov’s. Berba was called lazy by all and sundry at Spurs and at Utd, so it’s a perfect comparison because they both play/played for the same team. As I said earlier if Lukaku was scoring goals as Aguero still was when he was allegedly lazy, then it doesn’t really get picked up. This is what Berba was doing, although he was still called out as lazy by all fans and media when he had shit games because when he wasn’t on his game, he didn’t offer much else aside from decent hold up play.

Forgetting about Aguero as Durham’s only example, what do you think about this example? Everything you said that wasn’t being said about Aguero pre Pep, WAS being said about Berba his whole career.

The point I’m trying to make is that you say negative stereotyping fuels racism but you should be allowed to say if you genuinely think a black player is lazy without it being a negative stereotype. I might be wrong but it sounds like you’re almost saying you shouldn’t criticise a black player just in case it’s inadvertently racist even if someone genuinely believes they’re giving constructive criticism. Would anyone blink an eyelid if it was a black pundit saying Lukaku was lazy?

Anyway, xmas do approaching fast.... 🕺🏻
Okay lets make this clear:

The likes of Berbatov and even Ibrahimovic were deemed as lazy because of their style of play, you can also put Ozil and Riquelme in that bracket too. Those players rarely if at all pressed, harried or chased loose balls because it wasn't in their remit. This boils down to their on the pitch behavior and their mannerisms, they had/have a low work rate and are/were allowed to get away with it because of their supreme technical ability.

Now answer me this:

Lukaku get's saddled with the same term, why? Why does he get called lazy when his game is based on running into channels, pulling wide to create space for his team mates, bringing others into play, chases loose balls etc...he doesn't even look lazy, doesn't have a lazy demeanor or mannerisms. He's been called lazy by the media and fans for most of his career when he was scoring goals, the term hasn't just come about now because he's not scoring.

I get your point and I'm not disputing it - (we're essentially having different arguments if that's your point), you should be allowed to express your opinion however there should be a basis to it and some reasoning, unfortunately in this case with Lukaku being black there's a negative stereotype that people are are seemingly aware of and the reason we are discussing it is because it's just merely an example of negative stereotyping stemmed from the Sterling debate which has been proven.
 
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Okay lets make this clear:

The likes of Berbatov and even Ibrahimovic were deemed as lazy because of their style of play, you can also put Ozil and Riquelme in that bracket too. Those players rarely if at all pressed, harried or chased loose balls because it wasn't in their remit. This boils down to their on the pitch behavior and their mannerisms, they had/have a low work rate and are/were allowed to get away with it because of their supreme technical ability.

Now answer me this:

Lukaku get's saddled with the same term, why? Why does he get called lazy when his game is based on running into channels, pulling wide to create space for his team mates, bringing others into play, chases loose balls etc...he doesn't even look lazy, doesn't have a lazy demeanor or mannerisms. He's been called lazy by the media and fans for most of his career when he was scoring goals, the term hasn't just come about now because he's not scoring.

I get your point and I'm not disputing it - (we're essentially having different arguments if that's your point), you should be allowed to express your opinion however there should be a basis to it and some reasoning, unfortunately in this case with Lukaku being black there's a negative stereotype that people are are seemingly aware of and the reason we are discussing it is because it's just merely an example of negative stereotyping stemmed from the Sterling debate which has been proven.
I personally don’t think that Lukaku is particularly lazy but your argument seems to be that because he drags defenders wide and runs into channels etc amongst other things you've mentioned above, that means he isn’t lazy. That’s cool and that’s your opinion. But football is about opinions and if someone else thinks he’s lazy then it’s still their opinion and their right to think that and it will have nothing to do with the negative stereotype of black players. They might be wrong in their opinion but the fact is there might not be an ounce of racism attached to it simply because it’s their genuine opinion of Lukaku.

If every black player was spoken of as lazy or ‘powerful’ etc then yes of course I’d agree with your point more but players like Vieira, King, Ferdinand etc were all thought of as intelligent players who read the game amazingly. So if someone said ‘Vieira was so intelligent but Lukaku is a bit lazy’ they’re not stereotyping, they’re just expressing their opinion.

Unless I’ve still misunderstood your point? I don’t think I have though, I’ve carefully read your last few posts and this seems to be the point you’re making. I agree with the Sterling stuff but not the points about Lukaku.
 

tommo84

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Talksport discussing fan behaviour on Jim White’s show following the bottle thrown at Dele last night and pointing the finger at all quarters except the media. The likes of Durham and, to a lesser extent, Jim White himself, trade on the emotion of football fans and intentionally stir it up at every opportunity. They constantly provoke anger and jealousy among fans and also pour scorn on some club’s achievements on the pitch in such a way that they have to take some responsibility for the level of vitriol felt in the stands.

That they’re not even considering the role the media plays in this is reflective of their overall disregard for their actions and any unfortunate consequences.
 

Gb160

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Ryan Mason dishing out nothing but sense right now...he keeps proving that numpty Saunders is talking out of his arse.
I bloody love Ryan Mason.

Saying that Saunders has made some good points about why Poch won't comment on the Utd rumours.
 

vicbob

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Ryan Mason dishing out nothing but sense right now...he keeps proving that numpty Saunders is talking out of his arse.
I bloody love Ryan Mason.

Saying that Saunders has made some good points about why Poch won't comment on the Utd rumours.
To be fair my 2 year old could do that, I’m sure they only have Deano on to make Jim White look clever, the bloke is a bell end of the highest proportion.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
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I don't have sky so didn't see the game but listened to it on Talksport where at one point one of the co commentators waxed lyrical about Hung Mon Sin:)
 

Rocksuperstar

just a child getting older...
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To be fair my 2 year old could do that, I’m sure they only have Deano on to make Jim White look clever, the bloke is a bell end of the highest proportion.
Dean Saunders is such a nobber. Have you noticed he doesn't go on the Sports bar anymore? Goldstein could wind him up in a blink, it was like a super power, used to have me in stitches when he was on instead of Cundy.

He starts every other sentence with, "I was a professional footballer", or, "Being an ex-professional footballer" almost regardless of the topic as welll; "Yeah, I was an addict and homeless for years but knuckled down and I've been coaching kids football for a few years, so...", "Being an ex-professional footballer, I think that's great". "Did anyone see the bake-off final?", "I was a professional footballer so I understand what pressure is about..."

He's so dull he makes James Milner look like Snoop Dogg.
 

Col_M

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I was listening to it to this am and it’s shockingly bad. They were talking about the Spurs win and the Brazil summed it up as if it was still Saturday morning saying Liverpool beat Wolves last night and zspurs are 9pts behind with a game in hand. I know he’s a drinker but that was ridiculous
 

Metalhead

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I was listening to it to this am and it’s shockingly bad. They were talking about the Spurs win and the Brazil summed it up as if it was still Saturday morning saying Liverpool beat Wolves last night and zspurs are 9pts behind with a game in hand. I know he’s a drinker but that was ridiculous
He always seems a bit lukewarm towards us.
 

Rocksuperstar

just a child getting older...
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I was listening to it to this am and it’s shockingly bad. They were talking about the Spurs win and the Brazil summed it up as if it was still Saturday morning saying Liverpool beat Wolves last night and zspurs are 9pts behind with a game in hand. I know he’s a drinker but that was ridiculous
He always struggles a bit on Monday mornings, but considering he's doing a weekend breakfast show as well, he's certainly putting in the hours. Be honest though, how many times when you're chatting at work do you absent mindedly refer to the saturday game as "yesterday"? I do it a fair bit, but you don't get to correct yourself on radio immediately otherwise you sound even slower.

Brazil needs a break, he must be thinking about retiring soon, he could earn a fortune on the speaking circuit and he's already minted. He knows Talksport will never fire him, he could literally down a bottle of wine and piss into the empty bottle live on air and they'd not say a word (probably has, poor example, apologies) so it's totally in his hands when he steps off.

I wonder who'd replace him though? Durham would, i expect, be first choice for the station, he earns them a fortune and is probably hefting a fair bit of weight there by now, but I'd really prefer Max Rushden. Him and Barry Glendenning on the weekends are great, light hearted bullshit, exactly the sort of random crap I appreciate when I'm waking up.

The only other option would be to give it to the 2 Mikes and I don't think they have the audience to carry a breakfast show, between that and the drive home it's got to be the prime slot for Talksport. Anyone I've overlooked?
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
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I don't have sky so didn't see the game but listened to it on Talksport where at one point one of the co commentators waxed lyrical about Hung Mon Sin:)
I think the match commentary on TS is terrible. A bit like Sky, they spend most of the match waffling on about rumours, history and their own opinions on shit and if yourr lucky all of this utter bollox is occasionally interspersed with the odd insight into whats actually fkin happening in the match, which is what they are supposed to be talking about. You can win a corner, they start talking crap and the next thing they tell you is your goalkeeper has the ball!!!
With Sky Sports you have a throw in in the oppositions half, then you get a shot of the manager, a shot of the bench, shot of some famous twat or the chairman in the crowd and then, wahey, you goalkeeper has the ball again lol.
Does my fkin nut in.
5 live is better than TS imo.
 
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