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Lack of mental strength or ability?

Biggest hurdle


  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
I hate the fact that people keep on going about finances as if that is a yard stick for a player's quality

Firstly half the reason our squad is so cheap is because we sign players in the last year of their contract

For example, Alan Hutton cost £9m ten years ago whilst Trippier (who has been poor) cost us £3.5m. Alan Hutton wasn't a better RB than Trippier. Same goes for Zokora or Alli, one cost £8.2m in 2006 and the other £5m in 2016.

Good scouting shouldn't be used as an excuse for poor performances.

Who would you rather have Ozil at £42.5m or Eriksen at £11m. Kane or Higuain, one was free

Eriksen is better. These other teams that have spent a lot of money aren't necessarily better.

Whilst our scouting has been good, there is a lot of room for improvement, signing players like Nkoudou, is a waste when you could promote a player from the academy who has been ingrained in poch's philosophy since a young age.
 

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
14,423
12,258
People tend to remember the times we've faltered better than the times we prevailed, that's for sure. Just being third and with one foot in the CL quarter finals after the circumstances this season shows immense mental strength over a long period of time.

When we lose at Burnley, it's held up as proof that "we fail when it finally start to matter!", whereas the stretch where we had to dig deep to win vs. Fulham, Watford, Newcastle and Leicester somehow didn't matter, because we won. Or something.

I totally get some of the noise and frustration after the Chelsea game though. Because we were far more comfortable yesterday than vs. Burnley, but going into the last 30 minutes, where Chelsea would definitely tire (as they did in the first half), it just seemed like we were hell bent on conceding. Reminded of when we played some of the genuinely good Chelsea sides of about ten years ago.

You can understand people of a certain age when it comes to the business end of the season we do tend to shot ourselve in the the foot self destruct fall short just tends to be negative. The overall story though is progression and we certainly are doing this
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
I think you've hit the nail on the head here.

I just think the mentality questions are unfair, the reality is if we take our spurs tinted glasses off, the two teams ahead of us have from 1-11 better quality than us at the moment. We have I'd say 6/7 top class players with a couple of those being inconsistent and then there's a lot of players I love and want to succeed but player for player we have to face reality.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
Whilst we are in here, it's amazing to me the amount of people who said that we couldn't win the title are now suddenly in uproar because we lost 2 games and are out of the title race, how did you think we were not going to win the title?
 

Flobadob

Well-Known Member
Jul 22, 2014
3,617
12,315
We lack quality in key positions. Fullback isn’t normally such a key position but with the players we have in attack in Kane, Alli, Eriksen and Son, they need space to do their best work. When we had Walker and Rose we had that luxury. Now we don’t really have that anymore and on top of that we have fullbacks that can’t defend either. If we spent 70-80 million on fullbacks and didn’t do anything else I’d be content with that. I know we need a CM but the level of quality there is nowhere near as bad as at fullback in my opinion
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
They have a significantly higher quality of squad all around than we do and their game is based on a strict defensive approach. Our fans would cry watching that weekly.

They have a higher quality NOW maybe, but that's what happens when you win the league and get to the CL final. I meant before they took that step.

IIRC they were in trouble moneywise before that (which is why they kept selling their best players).
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Whilst we are in here, it's amazing to me the amount of people who said that we couldn't win the title are now suddenly in uproar because we lost 2 games and are out of the title race, how did you think we were not going to win the title?

Title? It's Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea I fear atm.
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2005
4,483
3,890
I just think the mentality questions are unfair, the reality is if we take our spurs tinted glasses off, the two teams ahead of us have from 1-11 better quality than us at the moment. We have I'd say 6/7 top class players with a couple of those being inconsistent and then there's a lot of players I love and want to succeed but player for player we have to face reality.

I think you're about right here. Poch gets that bit extra out of a few of the less brilliant players we have but he can't do it forever. Some players will go a bit downhill as well over time which MP can't fix. Too many factors need to be right for us to be 100% fit and firing 90% of the time like perhaps City and Liverpool are at the moment.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
They have a higher quality NOW maybe, but that's what happens when you win the league and get to the CL final. I meant before they took that step.

Do you mean the team that won them the league or what steps did they take to create that league winning team, as the league winning team then was a higher quality than ours now in terms of 1-11, Hell our best cb was riding their bench at 25 years old. I'm not sure what steps they took to get there though.

IIRC they were in trouble moneywise before that (which is why they kept selling their best players).
Title? It's Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea I fear atm.

Well personally I'm not too worried about that, I feel big picture wise Burnley and Chelsea were two games where points might be dropped, I'll be worried if we drop points to Arsenal but with them facing United and United facing Chelsea, I feel we have enough distance where we could still drop points vs Liv/City and finish top4. I'm not willing to shit the bed yet. I fully expect us to make top4.
 

archiewasking

Waiting for silverware..........
Jul 5, 2004
7,848
11,668
It's both. When the chips are really down and we have a chance to win a semi final or put pressure on league leaders, we inevitably falter. And quality? Poch doesn't want Tielemans, and is happy with Skipp! Skipp may develop into a fine player, but we need first team standard now, not just raw potential.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Well personally I'm not too worried about that, I feel big picture wise Burnley and Chelsea were two games where points might be dropped, I'll be worried if we drop points to Arsenal but with them facing United and United facing Chelsea, I feel we have enough distance where we could still drop points vs Liv/City and finish top4. I'm not willing to shit the bed yet. I fully expect us to make top4.

The lack of draws is annoying. If we could have turned 3 of our losses into draws...
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
The lack of draws is annoying. If we could have turned 3 of our losses into draws...

Yeah I had this debate with somebody and I kinda feel like the reality is the draws would come from the games we won rather than lost. we haven't really lost any games in the last 5-10 mins of a game but we have won plenty there. honestly in terms of pure performance we have taken a step backwards but have managed to grind out results. I'm hoping next season we can bring the performances back and keep the grind to take us up a level.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
8,196
17,270
Yeah I had this debate with somebody and I kinda feel like the reality is the draws would come from the games we won rather than lost. we haven't really lost any games in the last 5-10 mins of a game but we have won plenty there. honestly in terms of pure performance we have taken a step backwards but have managed to grind out results. I'm hoping next season we can bring the performances back and keep the grind to take us up a level.

Yeah but say that if we managed to fight back from losing to a draw, three times. That would be three extra points and also a better feeling for the squad knowing that they can fight back and save points.

But as you say, looking at how the games panned out we probably weren't very close when we lost.
EDIT: Except against Utd.
 

vicbob

Well-Known Member
Aug 26, 2008
2,401
5,104
Well I need to get this off my chest, and this seems to be as good as thread as any, i'm still so angry after last night, more angry than I normally am over results, but at least my knee has stopped jerking, so some rationality should have returned by now.

Hugo- Love the guy, but his big game performances are just not up to it and don't get me started on his distribution. Questions must be asked over his long term future at a club of this level.

Full backs- I don't want this to be the usual team Tripps or team Serge debate, as neither are good enough, but Tripps has been awful this season, truly terrible. I don't know if its post a good world cup or what, but he really needs to go. Rose has been good in patches, but still seems unable to hold down the regular LB role, is he chronically injured as some of the ITK's alluded to? Has KWP run over Poch's cat or something, I really don't see why he isn't given more of a chance at RB, yes hes made mistakes, but he shows more promise than the other 2

CB - Obviously the contract issue with Toby is a permanent cloud, but by and large we still play better with him than without him, so please if there is any chance sort it out. Jan is Jan and long may he continue, but Sanchez seems to have regressed and sometimes Foyth looks like a world beater in the making and other times he looks like an under 15, thrown into the full team.

Midfield- In my view the crux of the problem. Winks aside (who is looking better and better) we are just not good enough. For all the improvements Sissoko has made, and you cant fault his energy and drive, if the guy could only pick a pass or finish we might have a player, but his end product is woeful and would he really wouldn't get in any other top 6 midfield? We miss Dele and his fight, Dier who i like just does not seem to fit and we sold the only player in January that could grab a game by the scruff of the neck and boss the middle of the park. I understand the reasoning behind selling Dembele, one last big payday, can't play at the pace of the PL anymore etc etc, but we just have nobody else who can do what he could do (albeit less and less frequently). Lamela seems back to his usual running around producing nothing best form of old, I thought he had turned the corner at the start of the season, but has regressed hugely.
And then we have Eriksen, majestic on his day, but for the majority of the season hes looked like he couldn't care less. Is it his contract situation or something else, either way he needs to sort it out as he certainly won't get his dream move on his recent displays.

Attack - Kane is our talisman, he needs to play, but hes doing too much, is he over compensating for the lack of quality in the midfield? I love Son, but he has his purple patches when everything he hits goes in, but he also has his fair share of ineffectual games.
Lucas runs around a lot and undoubtedly has talent, but he seems an individual in the team, rather than a part of it. I like Nando, but if he is the answer off the bench, then we are asking the wrong questions.

Poch Love the guy, hope he stays forever, but he has to learn form his mistakes and he doesn't seem to. If the ITK's are right and its his stubbornness as much as Levy's stingyness that is stopping him buying players then he is in danger of becoming the new Wenger, where his principles become more important than reality. Stay Poch, win things with us, but learn with us as well.

The stadium - No doubt this has been a massive weight around our neck, without finger pointing and blaming, the situation cannot have helped the team. The atmosphere at Wembley is awful, we have no "12th" man and it must rub off on the players. My only hope is that we can get in to the new ground as soon as possible and that will provide a lift for the team and help to get us over the line.

Transfers - We needed to sign players and for whatever reason we didn't (the reasons why have been argued time and time again in other threads), but by not signing players we left a massive stick for everyone to beat us with as soon as things went tits up. The "lack of ambition""players will leave""poch will leave" etc etc gets spouted out every time we lose a game, it adds into the "legends" and "spursy" bullshit that gets banded around. Does it rub off on the players and their mentality, I don't know, but it certainly does not help.

I can honestly say that I have not enjoyed this season at all. Yes we are 3rd, but we have rarely played well, everything seems to be a slog. If we can get top 4, somehow get over the line and into our new stadium then this season will have been a success, but certainly not enjoyable. Something needs to change for next year, but I certainly won't be sad to see the end of this season.

Sorry for the ramble.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Aug 5, 2006
3,356
3,330
I think the mentality side is a greater need at the moment... not because we don't have it but just because it seems less consistent than the quality of our players. We know we have the quality there to match up with anybody, and we've shown an enormous amount of mental strength this season, but I think the mental side is the more fragile part of our game at the moment.

This might be why we heard stories about Poch turning down certain signings. I'm sure there are plenty of players out there who would be improvements on our current fringe players, but do they have the personality that Poch is looking for?

Hopefully we can solve both factors at the same time if we are able to sign the right types of player. For example, an Edgar Davids in this current team would be a boost to quality and mentality.
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,333
77,592
Looking at a club like Atletico, what was it that tipped them over from just being a club playing some good football to being constant challengers in league and cups? I feel we aren't that much different from them, except Simeone managed to actually start winning stuff.
I do think the Premier League is just tougher to crack. Not only a tougher schedule with 2 domestic cups but no winter break (yet). The sheer amount of tv money here has totally changed the league for us. If it was 10 years earlier under Poch we probably would have won things by now. It's like we finally got the structure of the club right with the best manager for the job at the most difficult time. In Spain you have maybe 3 who could win the league, here it could be any of 6 really. 1 season Chelsea can win a title, the next challenge to even qualify for the CL.

I just think we're a great team in the toughest league. We're just short of the very best teams and can't get over the line yet. For me it's more about quality in depth. We're just that bit short of the right options in key positions. We have 2 World Cup winners yet our best players are the ones looking more likely to win trophies. I mean you couldn't say Kane doesn't have a winning mentality for example just because he hasn't won a trophy. Leicester won a title but they're not now showing a title winning mentality. There's more to it than just winning a trophy to suddenly have that mentality. It's about having the quality throughout the squad for sustained success.
 

eddiev14

SC Supporter
Jan 18, 2005
7,173
19,679
Absolutely related to Quality:

Full backs
Central midfield

Other issues:

How can you possibly play 4-5 players (Winks, Sissoko, Eriksen, Son etc) in every possible game without fatigue setting in? Son looked fucking shattered last night from minute one, and the touch of most of those players I mentioned was all over the place.

In addition, Hugo and Eriksen need competition for their first team place. Pressure to jump start them out of the sort of coasting we’ve seen in recent games.

Basically, for me, it comes down to a lack of investment in the squad; to replace poor options with better options, and to add quality where certain players think they are a shoo-in.

We haven’t done that and it’s costing us. It’s only a run of incredibly fortunate wins that has prevented this debate from occurring a few weeks ago.

I pray we can get a win on Saturday.
 

shelfmonkey

Weird is different, different is interesting.
Mar 21, 2007
6,690
8,040
We need more of the Dele Alli types. Players who will not be bullied and also that will not be afraid to kick the sh*t out of someone when it's needed. One game that has been stuck in my head the last year is the Juventus game at home in the CL last season when they turned things around in 3 (!) minutes. After the game Poch said that Juve are "Specialists in football dark arts while we were the nice people" in regards of putting pressure on the referee. There you have it.

I think you're spot on there. When we buy a player it's pretty obvious we won't go for anyone who might be troublesome, we go for 'good lads' who won't rock the boat, but I think we definitely need a few edgy characters in the team to let the others know when they are slacking, it all seems too cosy and comfortable at Spurs!
 

SirNiNyHotspur

23 Years of Property, Concerts, Karts & Losing
Apr 27, 2004
3,125
6,743
Whilst we are in here, it's amazing to me the amount of people who said that we couldn't win the title are now suddenly in uproar because we lost 2 games and are out of the title race, how did you think we were not going to win the title?
Don't think anyone is suddenly in uproar, people have been concerned all season, we haven't been playing well, our problems were forseen by many due to our preseason and inactivity in the summer. As someone alluded feels more like an AVB season where we're scraping the results without many or any decent performances. With the other teams around now hitting form, we seem to be the only team in the top 6 consisently struggling along with now a real danger for the season becoming a complete failure. To add to that we have the hardest fixture run in of any, who fancies us away to Liverpool or Man.City? We simply can't afford anymore Burnley, Wolves or Watfords if we are to get CL, I'm already looking with concern at Southampton away concerning how they battered our goal at home...
 

Bensonrecon

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2015
392
1,377
Both but polled as mentality. We've played garbage more often than well this season yet are third. Yes fatigue etc plays a part but this is the same squad of players that rolled Dortmund over, fought back from the brink in the CL etc yet can't seem to perform to par in bunches in the league. Pochettino wants the fans to be positive which I get, but it's hard when you watch the same mistakes being made from the same players and the players that have no excuses not stepping up at all.

I used to wince when I saw Sissoko's name in the starting 11 but he's shown more fight and desire to turn his career with us around than some of the names we've lauded as vital to our long term success.
 
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