Lack of mental strength or ability?

Biggest hurdle


  • Total voters
    144
  • Poll closed .

Krule

Carpe Diem
Joined
Jun 4, 2017
Messages
2,231
#81
With the current squad no one can do better. Unless we actually invest in good quality players I dont think we will progress and will remain potentially toggling between 4th and 6th. The others will invest and they will get better...
Exactly....good quality 'experienced' players. Ones with a couple of good seasons still left in their legs but with a sack full of trophies to show for their careers....role models for our 'would be' stars to dream of emulating.(y) Mix that together with a manager who is genuinely feared and respected with a CV to grace any interview meeting and we've cracked it. (once again NOT Mourinho !!!!!)
 

JCRD

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,261
#82
Exactly....good quality 'experienced' players. Ones with a couple of good seasons still left in their legs but with a sack full of trophies to show for their careers....role models for our 'would be' stars to dream of emulating.(y) Mix that together with a manager who is genuinely feared and respected with a CV to grace any interview meeting and we've cracked it. (once again NOT Mourinho !!!!!)
No no no dude - ones with a bit more than a couple of seasons in their legs but at the same time, we need one or two who are not all about potential but actually can deliver from the get go - easier said than done...
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Joined
Oct 21, 2012
Messages
7,217
#84
It neither, its how we are being set up to play.
We are more than capable of going at teams, putting them under pressure, out shooting and out scoring them.
Whats happening recently is we are playing like the object the game is to keep the ball.
It isn't.
The object of the game is to stick it in the opponents goal.
We've reverted back to AVB football.
Thats Pochs fault and nobody elses.
Stop playing 7 defensive players out of 11 and we may actually create something up the right end of the pitch.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
8,684
#85
IMO, our mental strength is fine, the problem is we call on it so much, it's often exhausted.

I think the problem is our squad is it is too imbalanced towards physical qualities in expense of intelligence and technical qualities. I think the one area we have got it spot on is actually the area you need it least, CB.

I think if we added 1 or 2 players (in the right areas) that were balanced more towards the technical side that also had alot of intelligence, it would have a huge affect.

I believe it's the reason we struggle to break teams down, despite having so much of the ball and often have to capitalise on them getting tired to scrap the win.

On top of this, I think Poch needs to rotate more to keep our players fresh.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
5,786
#86
There are a number of factors to consider:

- Lack of stadium
- Lack of spending
- Opposition being able to spend MUCH more than us
- Injuries (this season)
- WC (this season)
- Tactics/game set up and game management

The last factor on that list is a frustrating one. The main issue I have in this area is the tendency we have to 'slow starts' in games. The first 30 minutes we won't really create a decent chance, while even 'lower' teams will have one or two break-away chances that will scare us.

Also, when we're winning we need to be able to (sometimes) revert to ultra-negative, park the bus football, to strangle the life out of the game, but ultimately get those 3pts. The Watford and Wolves games come to mind as examples of this.

It's also annoying how when the pressure is on and we have a chance to lay down a marker, we rarely get a result. This isn't just mentality, this is tactics as well. It is disappointing though.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2005
Messages
5,786
#87
IMO, our mental strength is fine, the problem is we call on it so much, it's often exhausted.

I think the problem is our squad is it is too imbalanced towards physical qualities in expense of intelligence and technical qualities. I think the one area we have got it spot on is actually the area you need it least, CB.

I think if we added 1 or 2 players (in the right areas) that were balanced more towards the technical side that also had alot of intelligence, it would have a huge affect.

I believe it's the reason we struggle to break teams down, despite having so much of the ball and often have to capitalise on them getting tired to scrap the win.

On top of this, I think Poch needs to rotate more to keep our players fresh.
This is particularly annoying and has been happening for many seasons now.

Perhaps the players should have a bit more freedom to play in varying styles. 10 minutes of keep-ball, 10 minutes of a more direct style, even long-ball if Llorente is on the pitch. Just change it up and be more pragmatic.
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
7,133
#88
Correct me if I'm wrong but we have several players who have won trophies elsewhere, along with the most recent World Cup winning captain. The ex Ajax lads all won Eredivisie, Llorente has won internationally.

Somewhere on here someone posted a list of the players who have won club trophies. It's not like we have zero winners.

I don't want to say it's something in the air at Tottenham Hotspur. However, with each year that passes it's hard to argue.
 

JarBirl

New Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
23
#89
I think there is definitely a mentality issue in our squad because Poch pointed it out himself publicly not just once but twice.

This article gives you an insight into how much care and monitoring is involved in managing each player. They check what our players get up to on their days off, after training, what they eat, and how much sleep they get and not to mention their mental state. They have a whole team of experts for this.

If Poch was frustrated enough to the point that he criticized our players publicly (which is out of character for him) for not being mentally ready, I should assume there must be something going on that I might not know as an onlooker.

I personally think our mental strength can be fixed if we start making serious investments in our squad. More competition, better squad quality, etc. Certain players just walk into our starting XI. We have players who probably shouldn't be starting for us every game. This will chip away at our confidence as a team if we keep on carrying deadwood in our XI.

To me, the only players that seem confident enough almost every time I see them are: Toby, Jan, Kane, and maybe Dier.
 

ComfortablyNumb

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2011
Messages
1,175
#90
I think there is definitely a mentality issue in our squad because Poch pointed it out himself publicly not just once but twice.

This article gives you an insight into how much care and monitoring is involved in managing each player. They check what our players get up to on their days off, after training, what they eat, and how much sleep they get and not to mention their mental state. They have a whole team of experts for this.

If Poch was frustrated enough to the point that he criticized our players publicly (which is out of character for him) for not being mentally ready, I should assume there must be something going on that I might not know as an onlooker.

I personally think our mental strength can be fixed if we start making serious investments in our squad. More competition, better squad quality, etc. Certain players just walk into our starting XI. We have players who probably shouldn't be starting for us every game. This will chip away at our confidence as a team if we keep on carrying deadwood in our XI.

To me, the only players that seem confident enough almost every time I see them are: Toby, Jan, Kane, and maybe Dier.
That doesn't mean there is a mentality issue (whatever that actually means), it just means that Poch thinks that's a problem.

Personally, I think there's a coaching problem. I don't think our coaching team gets the best out of our players. I watch other teams, with inferior squads, playing better football than we do, looking much more like an organised team. This is particularly true in attack, where we rely so much on unusual goals, bits of individual brilliance or just forcing opponents into a panic. Just look at the Burnley game - Kane's goal was a once-a-season event, whereas Burnley forced a series of chances through well-constructed, deliberate moves, where everyone looked as though they knew their role. We rarely look like that in the final third.

At the start of every season since Poch has been here, I've said that the one thing I want to see is evidence that Poch knows how to make a team more than the sum of its players. I still haven't seen that. Poch has got us fit, he's got us tough and given us a never-say-die attitude, and he has weeded out the wankers. I think that's what he's good at, but I think we need more. Not necessarily a different manager, but certainly some different coaching ideas from somewhere.

But, as I also say each season, he's keeping us in the top 4 consistently, so maybe better the devil you know.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Messages
14,701
Thread starter #91
Poch always seems to be someone who wants to work on things and improve that way than look for the easy way out.

I didn’t read his quotes as being critical but as something that needs improving.
 

daryl hannah

Berry Berry Calm
Joined
Sep 1, 2014
Messages
981
#92
Things started going south when Adebayor left.

It had an effect on mentality of the squad we haven't recovered from.

:wacky:
 
Last edited:

parj

I ate all the pies
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Messages
1,851
#95
That doesn't mean there is a mentality issue (whatever that actually means), it just means that Poch thinks that's a problem.

Personally, I think there's a coaching problem. I don't think our coaching team gets the best out of our players. I watch other teams, with inferior squads, playing better football than we do, looking much more like an organised team. This is particularly true in attack, where we rely so much on unusual goals, bits of individual brilliance or just forcing opponents into a panic. Just look at the Burnley game - Kane's goal was a once-a-season event, whereas Burnley forced a series of chances through well-constructed, deliberate moves, where everyone looked as though they knew their role. We rarely look like that in the final third.

At the start of every season since Poch has been here, I've said that the one thing I want to see is evidence that Poch knows how to make a team more than the sum of its players. I still haven't seen that. Poch has got us fit, he's got us tough and given us a never-say-die attitude, and he has weeded out the wankers. I think that's what he's good at, but I think we need more. Not necessarily a different manager, but certainly some different coaching ideas from somewhere.

But, as I also say each season, he's keeping us in the top 4 consistently, so maybe better the devil you know.

I think any manager would struggle when you lose Dembele and Wanyama, and the pace gets sucked out of the team.

Sissoko is slowly becoming more effective than Dembele in some ways but keeping the ball and just moving it without losing it, Dembele was they key. I think Winks needs to play in front of Sissoko so he can carry the ball more. Sissoko needs to become our Kante.

We need the stadium. The financing is not on hold. But Levy is more cautious so the stadium needs to be up and running. This summer will see us sign players but whether it's enough players is to be seen. This will be driven by whether we go for starting XI players or not cos let's be honest most of the players that will upgrade the team will cost £40m+ each. If we sign squad players then we may not see an immediate approvement
 

Jimmypearce7

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
1,391
#97
Mental strength of players good, give 100% every game. Mental strength of fans poor. At Wembley today, we played fairly well in the first half and conceded a goal on the break. All I had around me at Wembley was people proclaiming the game a disaster, players useless etc and communicating panic.
Belief and solid support for the team is what they deserved and would have worked better.
 

vegassd

The ghost of Johnny Cash
Joined
Aug 5, 2006
Messages
2,810
#98
Teams will always win lose or draw but those games for liverscum werent as crucial as say the game against Watford. Even Man Shitty pulled an ugly win against West Ham at home. We needed the ugly win against Burnley.

It will be very interesting to see how Liverscum go against Everton, whilst Everton are not all great shakes, Liverscum will go and even win ugly but i hope im wrong and they fuck it up.
I would argue that all games are equally crucial if you're aiming to win the league, and I did say that the pressure was a different kind. I think that we are often more harsh on our own team than on others - seeing our losses as catastrophes and other teams as par for the course - so just making the point you have that there will be losses for all teams along the way.

And thankfully Liverpool dropped points again. (y)

I don't watch anywhere near enough football to even know the technical abilities of current players around Europe, let alone their mentality, so won't pretend to have any proper ideas. The Juventus team that we played last season always seemed confident even after we scored at Wembley... it felt like they knew they were still going to win. Whether that was from the individual players or from the coaching staff, I think it's that sort of attitude that we need a bit more of in the squad.

Not an easy task at all.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2014
Messages
3,981
#99
As seems to be the common opinion, I'm going to have to say both. However, gun to my head I'd say it's more down to the lack of quality/depth. In certain positions we have players who are good enough to win titles, but in other positions, we have some distinctly average players who Poch has often managed to motivate to play at a level that is beyong their natural ability. The trouble with that is that sooner or later those players get found out.

In terms of our best 11, I'd say our front 4 (Kane Eriksen, Alli, Son) and the CBs (Jan and Toby) are top-quality, title winning combinations. When he's playing as well as we know he can, I'd have Lloris in that bracket as well, but he's really gone off the boil over the past 18 months. But our fullbacks and central midfield players are just not good enough to win titles. OK so if Wanyama could ever get back to his old self then he's great, but that seems very unlikely, as for Winks and SIssoko, Winks is a good young player, I like him a lot, but he's a long way off being the finished article, Sissoko is someone with seemingly no natural ability at all, and yet he falls firmly into the bracket of players Poch has somehow managed to make decent. He's been excellent this season, don't get me wrong, but like I said before, with players who are playing above and beyond their natural level, I feel like it's not sustainable for them to do that game after game long term. They'll get found out eventually in big games.

The fullback situation is absolutely ridiculous. In our last season before Walker left, our fullback play was one of the things that teams most dreaded coming up against. Walker and Rose bombing on working tirelessly on both sides of the ball, stretching teams wide and opening up space for Eriksen, Kane, Alli etc. in the middle. Walker is gone, it is what it is, and while Davies and Trippier both seem like good lads who work hard, I don't think either of them have even close to the ability to be title-winning starting players and, more importantly, I don't think either of them fit the role that Poch seemingly likes to play. This idea of having the fullbacks pushing up really high like Walker and Rose that was so effective, is absolutely impossible to play with Davies and Trippier because they just aren't suited to that role at all. For me that's one of the reasons we struggle to break teams down is because we don't have that width to stretch them any more. Aurier is much more suited to the role, but for whatever reason he seems determined to shoot himself in the foot at every chance he gets so can't be relied on week after week, and KWP looks promising, and also suited to the role, but he's so inexperienced that again I don't think he's currently at the level where he can be our starting RWB. Rose is our only really good fullback, but he's crocked all the time nowadays so also can't be relied on. It really is a mess our FB situation IMO.

Finally the squad depth is clearly an area that we struggle in. If we could get a couple of good wingbacks in and e.g. Wanyama could get back to fitness, then our starting 11 would be up there with the best of them IMO, but then when you look at our bench there's just nothing there.
 

DJS

A hunter must hunt...
Joined
Dec 9, 2006
Messages
24,358
I think mentality is a big thing, we really do lack a mean bastard in middle of park at the moment.

Dier qualifies, although he hasn't been consistently playing well at defensive midfield for a while, Wanyama was tough (maybe not necessarily a bastard like Dier) but he appears to be knackered (as always when I say this, I hope I'm wrong).

Dele has a touch of the bastard about him, but has been injured for a while.

We also do really need to invest to freshen things up.

A new central engine room midfielder is an absolute must, as well as a right and left back (I'd look to pinch Clyne from Liverpool for a good fee if they keep underappreciating him).

Plus if Eriksen leaves he'll need replacing and also we'll need another option to cover up top if Llorente goes.
 
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