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Player Watch Player Watch: Giovani Lo Celso

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EZSpur

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2007
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Basically Betis are set to make millions of pounds on a two month turn around, they bought Lo Celso knowing that was the case so we aren't trying to prise him away from them against their will so the decision is not £50m profit or £30m profit it is £30m profit or less because if we drop out nobody will offer what we are told they want, or possibly if we drop out no profit at all.

BUT! At the same time, let's not deny the fact that he's a player they'd also like to keep.
Not only for his rising stock value, but simply because he makes their team better.
My concern is that they might not be worried about selling him at all - so in almost every aspect of the negotiation, they seem to have the upper hand.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
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45,044
BUT! At the same time, let's not deny the fact that he's a player they'd also like to keep.
Not only for his rising stock value, but simply because he makes their team better.
My concern is that they might not be worried about selling him at all - so in almost every aspect of the negotiation, they seem to have the upper hand.
His stock won't rise much higher than what they want now anyway but I think you underestimate the power of money. They bought him already counting the money they had coming so to keep him would mean giving up all that money and the way money works on the mind it would feel like he cost that much money.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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It’s what I’ve been saying, despite the increased finances, it is just how we have historically operated. Especially if we sign ndombele, who Poch seems to want as our midfield target (we’ve not been linked with any other central midfielders as strongly as him). Surely nobody can believe we are going to spend £60 million on him and then the same amount on lo celso?

It really doesn’t sound like us unless we are getting money in from selling players. People just don’t seem to want to believe it. We need the Eriksen situation decided ASAP else it’s a perfect excuse for us not to buy anyone.

But we've also entered Phase 2 of the project as Poch calls it. He's made it very clear that he expects us to spend money this summer:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ettino-spurs-must-spend-like-big-club-summer/

“I was talking with Daniel and sometimes people compare us with Liverpool, and then they talk about the very good signing of (Virgil) van Dijk,” said Pochettino. “Van Dijk cost £75million 18 months ago. The keeper was £70m. They had two midfielders on the bench who they spent more than £100m on in the summer.

“The people sometimes say Tottenham is like Liverpool. In what? Yes, we are going to be better than Liverpool because we have a better stadium and better training ground. But now is another thing to compete, as we need to operate maybe similar to them in the future or not. We will see what is the project."

Ok, so you think we will spend over £120m by the end of this window without selling anyone to fund purchases. There’s running the club properly like Levy has done, with having the hindsight of history, and then there’s thinking that will happen. It won’t.

We'll obviously sell a few players, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a big name. As an example we could sell Janssen, Lamela, Wanyama, & Nkoudou to add to the money we've already received for Dembele. How much would we get for them? £35M-£40M? Possibly more? If so then we're spending £80M. We didn't spend anything last season so it's £40M a season really. West Ham spent £80M last season. Bournemouth & Brighton both spent over £60M. If we're going to operate at a lower level than Brighton and Bournemouth then people are really going to question what the point of moving into the new stadium was.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
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But we've also entered Phase 2 of the project as Poch calls it. He's made it very clear that he expects us to spend money this summer:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/footbal...ettino-spurs-must-spend-like-big-club-summer/

“I was talking with Daniel and sometimes people compare us with Liverpool, and then they talk about the very good signing of (Virgil) van Dijk,” said Pochettino. “Van Dijk cost £75million 18 months ago. The keeper was £70m. They had two midfielders on the bench who they spent more than £100m on in the summer.

“The people sometimes say Tottenham is like Liverpool. In what? Yes, we are going to be better than Liverpool because we have a better stadium and better training ground. But now is another thing to compete, as we need to operate maybe similar to them in the future or not. We will see what is the project."



We'll obviously sell a few players, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a big name. As an example we could sell Janssen, Lamela, Wanyama, & Nkoudou to add to the money we've already received for Dembele. How much would we get for them? £35M-£40M? Possibly more? If so then we're spending £80M. We didn't spend anything last season so it's £40M a season really. West Ham spent £80M last season. Bournemouth & Brighton both spent over £60M. If we're going to operate at a lower level than Brighton and Bournemouth then people are really going to question what the point of moving into the new stadium was.

I was chatting to a mate of mine, who is a West Ham fan, over a few beers last night and he said the same thing. That with the stadium and being champions league finalists, if we aren’t going to push on and sign players this window to help us achieve something then we never will. I tend to agree, which is quite depressing as I’m not sure we will.

As I have said though, let’s wait and see. I thought we’d sell players last summer but we didn’t because we apparently wanted too much money for players. We then had to loan them out. Are we making that same mistake again and can’t get them off our books? That’s the question.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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I was chatting to a mate of mine, who is a West Ham fan, over a few beers last night and he said the same thing. That with the stadium and being champions league finalists, if we aren’t going to push on and sign players this window to help us achieve something then we never will. I tend to agree, which is quite depressing as I’m not sure we will.

As I have said though, let’s wait and see. I thought we’d sell players last summer but we didn’t because we apparently wanted too much money for players. We then had to loan them out. Are we making that same mistake again and can’t get them off our books? That’s the question.

I can see why you'd think that, but the signs are there that we're willing to push on this summer. I think the major hurdle is convincing the right players to join, but we seem to be targeting the right people.

I imagine we'd be willing to sell certain players at lower prices this summer. Their contracts have run down by another year and we'd probably offset last years loan fees against the players value as well. We've also let a couple of players go now so there's no need to sell before we buy so we can take our time over the outgoing deals.

The other thing I keep thinking about was something Hercules posted a couple of years ago, where he said that there was an agreement with the banks that we would manage our transfer spending while the stadium was being built, but once we moved in our transfer policy would change. All the noise coming from the ITKs this year seems to support this so fingers crossed for a new approach.
 

The Opinionated Lurker

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2019
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I was chatting to a mate of mine, who is a West Ham fan, over a few beers last night and he said the same thing. That with the stadium and being champions league finalists, if we aren’t going to push on and sign players this window to help us achieve something then we never will. I tend to agree, which is quite depressing as I’m not sure we will.

As I have said though, let’s wait and see. I thought we’d sell players last summer but we didn’t because we apparently wanted too much money for players. We then had to loan them out. Are we making that same mistake again and can’t get them off our books? That’s the question.
I wish sometimes Levy was more like he was that summer window where he got rid of Stambouli, Paulinho, Capoue and others for IIRC at the time very low fees. Sometimes I do think our transfer policy shoots us in the face badly as much as it has worked but hopefully they change this summer.
 

hellava_tough

Well-Known Member
Apr 21, 2005
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I wish sometimes Levy was more like he was that summer window where he got rid of Stambouli, Paulinho, Capoue and others for IIRC at the time very low fees. Sometimes I do think our transfer policy shoots us in the face badly as much as it has worked but hopefully they change this summer.

Don't think they were, given the market at the time and the players sold
 

For the love of Spurs

Well-Known Member
Mar 28, 2015
3,444
11,252
I was chatting to a mate of mine, who is a West Ham fan, over a few beers last night and he said the same thing. That with the stadium and being champions league finalists, if we aren’t going to push on and sign players this window to help us achieve something then we never will. I tend to agree, which is quite depressing as I’m not sure we will.

As I have said though, let’s wait and see. I thought we’d sell players last summer but we didn’t because we apparently wanted too much money for players. We then had to loan them out. Are we making that same mistake again and can’t get them off our books? That’s the question.

Yeh I would say the noises are promising but if we don’t kick on big time this summer then questions have to be asked. I’d also imagine Poch wouldn’t be too happy and most most likely leave next season and our project would very much go into reverse stadium aside.
 

thisismyback

Active Member
Feb 4, 2019
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As I have said though, let’s wait and see. I thought we’d sell players last summer but we didn’t because we apparently wanted too much money for players. We then had to loan them out. Are we making that same mistake again and can’t get them off our books? That’s the question.

Disagree that our lack of transfers out was due to wanting too much money.

Dembele didn't move because the Chinese club he was linked too couldn't get rid of their third foreign player to make room, hence why his agents were trying to find a last minute spot for him in Italy. Toby's wage demands scared off suitors as much as our valuation. Sounds like Rose was shopping but couldn't find a club to land at. Maybe we're asking too much for Janssen or Nkoudou but wouldn't surprise me if it's simply a lack of interest and their current weekly wage. The club isn't in the position to give the players away.

It's clear that Poch wanted those players out last summer and for a variety of reasons couldn't get it done. It's also pretty clear that we were willing to spend without outgoings based on the comments from de Jong a month ago.

My wild guess on what Poch means by acting differently is a combo of cutting losses and playing the agent game. If you can get €5M for Janssen but you have to subsidize his wages for one or two seasons, do it. Spurs have paid some of the lowest agent fees in the league. You have to play that game if you want the top tier players, see Liverpool last season .
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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Disagree that our lack of transfers out was due to wanting too much money.

Dembele didn't move because the Chinese club he was linked too couldn't get rid of their third foreign player to make room, hence why his agents were trying to find a last minute spot for him in Italy. Toby's wage demands scared off suitors as much as our valuation. Sounds like Rose was shopping but couldn't find a club to land at. Maybe we're asking too much for Janssen or Nkoudou but wouldn't surprise me if it's simply a lack of interest and their current weekly wage. The club isn't in the position to give the players away.

It's clear that Poch wanted those players out last summer and for a variety of reasons couldn't get it done. It's also pretty clear that we were willing to spend without outgoings based on the comments from de Jong a month ago.

My wild guess on what Poch means by acting differently is a combo of cutting losses and playing the agent game. If you can get €5M for Janssen but you have to subsidize his wages for one or two seasons, do it. Spurs have paid some of the lowest agent fees in the league. You have to play that game if you want the top tier players, see Liverpool last season .

it's Levy's job to sell players, not Poch's. Who knows, De Jong in may well have been followed by someone major out. None of us know, even the ITK espouses the interests of those it comes from. Levy has not done well with buying or selling of late, leaving us short- where a little more depth could have seen us win a domestic cup, and crawling over the line in the league. This window defines him, beyond the magnificent infrastructure.
 

thisismyback

Active Member
Feb 4, 2019
84
224
it's Levy's job to sell players, not Poch's. Who knows, De Jong in may well have been followed by someone major out. None of us know, even the ITK espouses the interests of those it comes from. Levy has not done well with buying or selling of late, leaving us short- where a little more depth could have seen us win a domestic cup, and crawling over the line in the league. This window defines him, beyond the magnificent infrastructure.

In some cases it's the players and their agents job to find them a new home. In some cases it's Poch who ultimately makes the call that he'd rather work with what he has vs taking a player he doesn't think is good enough. In some cases it's Levy overplaying his hand with Villa. Point is, there are too many variables at play to single out one person or entity for being responsible for a window as a whole.

That said, to some degree, I do agree that this window defines him.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
Disagree that our lack of transfers out was due to wanting too much money.

Dembele didn't move because the Chinese club he was linked too couldn't get rid of their third foreign player to make room, hence why his agents were trying to find a last minute spot for him in Italy. Toby's wage demands scared off suitors as much as our valuation. Sounds like Rose was shopping but couldn't find a club to land at. Maybe we're asking too much for Janssen or Nkoudou but wouldn't surprise me if it's simply a lack of interest and their current weekly wage. The club isn't in the position to give the players away.

It's clear that Poch wanted those players out last summer and for a variety of reasons couldn't get it done. It's also pretty clear that we were willing to spend without outgoings based on the comments from de Jong a month ago.

My wild guess on what Poch means by acting differently is a combo of cutting losses and playing the agent game. If you can get €5M for Janssen but you have to subsidize his wages for one or two seasons, do it. Spurs have paid some of the lowest agent fees in the league. You have to play that game if you want the top tier players, see Liverpool last season .

There was itk last summer that we wanted too much money for the players we wanted to sell. I’m sure of it.
 

The Legend of Tanguy

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2019
111
853
Aren't both those players strikers?
Yes, but I think the point is that they won't have enough free cash to sign both without some outgoings (i.e. Lo Celso). If Betis are serious about their 2 targets, then something could develop quickly in terms of the sales LC, Firpo, etc. Too early to tell TBH.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
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Well he was playing false 9 so maybe them signing strikers is a change of system to replace the hole he's leaving.
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Apr 1, 2005
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it's Levy's job to sell players, not Poch's. Who knows, De Jong in may well have been followed by someone major out. None of us know, even the ITK espouses the interests of those it comes from. Levy has not done well with buying or selling of late, leaving us short- where a little more depth could have seen us win a domestic cup, and crawling over the line in the league. This window defines him, beyond the magnificent infrastructure.

Poch has to take some of the blame. Levy doesn't want to do the buying and selling but poch refused to have a dof.
 
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