Daily Mirror- Joe Lewis will sell the club....if he gets £1BILLION.

[piedpiper]

Yes. And we probably had overseas support before the introduction of colour TV. You are making a strawman argument and contradicting your initial point.

International awareness increases with success.

Without success overseas fans would

A) not be aware of us. Or...

B) probably far more likely choose a more successful team from the PL.

The reason we are gaining traction as a global brand is because of, and it doesn't matter what kind of faecal matter and shiny metallic dust you roll it in, ENIC.

An argument could revolve around 'could an alternate management group have done it quicker or better?'. But to completely dismiss ENIC's role in our rise is delusional.

Let's just agree to disagree. I honestly dont enjoy splitting hairs over nonsensical stuff. I've given my view and examples on our brand recognition which predates ENIC. you dont accept...thats all good with me. I did say i agree with you on the improvements in where we are now under them. Sorry Hobbit..im not up for arguing silly things. Ive enjoyed our engagement on the issue but i sense a irritation on your end. Lets drop it.

 

[HobbitSpur]

Everton were an old fashioned English club and really didn’t have the financial clout or want to take financial risk and appointed meh managers once Moyes left so under Kenwright they were stuck mid table but the new owner is investing. The dildo brothers as we know are basically milking WH for all its worth. They won the lottery with the Olympic stadium but have appointed hit and miss managers. Pellegrini is probably the first with any pedigree. Remains to be seen how that financial model works long term. Aston Villa is a sorry tale of an American owner who didn’t invest in the team and made horrible managerial appointments.

See a pattern here. ENIC went through their own managerial merry go round before Poch. They have had this balancing act of investing in infrastructure and remaining competitive. Remarkable how they have managed it. But the financial conservatism has held us back in terms of playing staff.

So what you are saying the current state of Totenham, Everton, West Ham and Aston Villa is down to the overall management of the clubs.

 

[piedpiper]

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD.

How can you even try to dismiss the fact that our global awareness is not greater than in the 80's

And this cannot be without the successes we have achieved.

I am not saying that we were not supported overseas 50, 60, 70 years ago. We were.

BUT

Our brand is growing faster than it ever has. And to say that this is just organic growth and our international family base would be exactly the same if we had been playing in the Championship for that last few season is quite frankly obtuse.


Edit
Piper. Apologies if I am being rude. I just cannot honestly see any validity in your opinion. Mine is purely opinion too, and although I strongly disagree with yours I should respect it.

We not going to agree. I hear you and im not dismissive of our brand recognition now either. I attribute that to other factors... We seeing this through different lenses/experiences i suppose.

 

[HobbitSpur]

Let's just agree to disagree. I honestly dont enjoy splitting hairs over nonsensical stuff. I've given my view and examples on our brand recognition which predates ENIC. you dont accept...thats all good with me. I did say i agree with you on the improvements in where we are now under them. Sorry Hobbit..im not up for arguing silly things. Ive enjoyed our engagement on the issue but i sense a irritation on your end. Lets drop it.

Your initial statement was that our global awareness was the same before ENIC took over to what it is now.

There is factual evidence, not only common sense, that refutes your thoughts.

If that is splitting hairs with that then I am absolutely lost for words.

 

[piedpiper]

So what you are saying the current state of Totenham, Everton, West Ham and Aston Villa is down to the overall management of the clubs.

You saying that....i've referenced global recognition.. On the clubs referenced above... Their global recognition is far greater than in the 80's.. I attribute that to technology and games being broadcast at far higher levels tban in tbe 80's... Nothing to do with the owners.
In SA we have supersport as a digital terrestrial platform every PL game is shown LIVE . This makes thise or our club more accessible to a wider audience. I dont attribute it to the owners per se.

 

[HobbitSpur]

We not going to agree. I hear you and im not dismissive of our brand recognition now either. I attribute that to other factors... We seeing this through different lenses/experiences i suppose.

Is this black or white?

Just wondering.

 

[piedpiper]

Your initial statement was that our global awareness was the same before ENIC took over to what it is now.

There is factual evidence, not only common sense, that refutes your thoughts.

If that is splitting hairs with that then I am absolutely lost for words.

Yes i maintain that.. Technology has made it more accesible... Look i think we boring everyone else on this.. If you wish we can pm to continue our points of departure.

 

[ohtottenham!]

Sorry im bot being argumentative for the sake of it... I do agree on our progress as a club and where are now w.r t competing for the title 2 yrs running and our CL qualification thats diwn to Enic....fully agree there. My departure point is on our brand recognition back then.... I maintain it was just as strong. Like you said in a earlier post our trophies in the 80's contributed... Remember im talking internationally/ 3rd world etc.

I watched the CL final at a supporters group in Johannesburg about 300 people were there and i know of a group in Durban at both groups the ages were skewed to older members.. Born in 60's & 70's who were all passionate supporters.. There were some expats who regaled us with their memories of WHL and the rivalry with Arsenal...shit im digressing but my original point of disagreement with Hobbit was on the brand recognition.

Thanks for great interaction Baz.

I think you're answering your own question here, Pied. The brand recognition is more about the younger fan, not about old expats like me, or the older overseas fan who chose Spurs as his/her club back in the day, but who's never been to England.

There are a number of factors that go into brand recognition for any club, but success, and sustained success in particular, raises the profile more than anything else.

Our recent success after decades of next to nothing, ...consistent top 4, CL Final, Kane, Son, Alli, Eriksen, Moura all getting plenty of positive exposure...all of it happened in the ENIC era! So, yes they are one, but a very important one, of a number of contributing factors to our increased brand recognition.

Chelsea and City are great examples of that. In the U.S., you could see it progressively over time with the increased media coverage and new, young fans sporting their shirts on the street.

After Liverpool won the CL in 2005 in the way they did, it got lots of coverage, especially in on the Spanish-language TV channels. Lots of young fans in LA, particularly Latinos, started wearing Liverpool shirts. They've won 3 FA Cups, a UEFA Cup, and obviously a CL, not even counting last week, since we last won our last major trophy, the FA Cup in 1991. It helps their brand over us.

You see more Spurs shirts these days than before... Kane, Son (and not just Korean fans, although there are plenty in LA); all young fans. Far higher profile due to increased interest and media coverage of the sport in general, and the fact we're challenging for those biggest prizes in the spotlight. It's happening in the ENIC era, so I think they should get some credit.

 

[HobbitSpur]

Yes i maintain that.. Technology has made it more accesible... Look i think we boring everyone else on this.. If you wish we can pm to continue our points of departure.

So why are Everton not in the same level as THFC as a global brand. They are part of the same league and have shared in the same technology over the same period since the PL began.

Could it have anything to do with the powers at the helm?

Just throwing it out there.

 

[Lilbaz]

Sorry im bot being argumentative for the sake of it... I do agree on our progress as a club and where are now w.r t competing for the title 2 yrs running and our CL qualification thats diwn to Enic....fully agree there. My departure point is on our brand recognition back then.... I maintain it was just as strong. Like you said in a earlier post our trophies in the 80's contributed... Remember im talking internationally/ 3rd world etc.

I watched the CL final at a supporters group in Johannesburg about 300 people were there and i know of a group in Durban at both groups the ages were skewed to older members.. Born in 60's & 70's who were all passionate supporters.. There were some expats who regaled us with their memories of WHL and the rivalry with Arsenal...shit im digressing but my original point of disagreement with Hobbit was on the brand recognition.

Thanks for great interaction Baz.

Just confusing you saying we had brand recognition in the 80's. But then say we got our brand recognition when sky came in.

I've lived in india and se asia. There were almost zero spurs fans that i met out there. This is slowly changing.

 

[dontcallme]

All our progression on and off the pitch since ENIC took over is despite them.

The reasons we are not doing even better is because of them.

 

[HobbitSpur]

Just confusing you saying we had brand recognition in the 80's. But then say we got our brand recognition when sky came in.

I've lived in india and se asia. There were almost zero spurs fans that i met out there. This is slowly changing.

I live in Indonesia now. And the amount of people who associate THFC with CL football compared to 12 months ago is more than noticeable.

 

[HobbitSpur]

All our progression on and off the pitch since ENIC took over is despite them.

The reasons we are not doing even better is because of them.

I would hug you right now if I could.

 

[Lilbaz]

I live in Indonesia now. And the amount of people who associate THFC with CL football compared to 12 months ago is more than noticeable.

Love the gilli islands.

 

[HobbitSpur]

Love the gilli islands.

Mate I get there as often as I can. Live in Bali but currently based in Java.

Gilli takes some beating.

Green Tea and Bicycles is definately the future

 

[dontcallme]

I would hug you right now if I could.

 

[RichieS]

All our progression on and off the pitch since ENIC took over is despite them.

The reasons we are not doing even better is because of them.

@nicdic - he's taking the piss...

 

[nicdic]

@nicdic - he's taking the piss...

That'll teach me for only reading the last page.

 

[piedpiper]

I think you're answering your own question here, Pied. The brand recognition is more about the younger fan, not about old expats like me, or the older overseas fan who chose Spurs as his/her club back in the day, but who's never been to England.

There are a number of factors that go into brand recognition for any club, but success, and sustained success in particular, raises the profile more than anything else.

Our recent success after decades of next to nothing, ...consistent top 4, CL Final, Kane, Son, Alli, Eriksen, Moura all getting plenty of positive exposure...all of it happened in the ENIC era! So, yes they are one, but a very important one, of a number of contributing factors to our increased brand recognition.

Chelsea and City are great examples of that. In the U.S., you could see it progressively over time with the increased media coverage and new, young fans sporting their shirts on the street.

After Liverpool won the CL in 2005 in the way they did, it got lots of coverage, especially in on the Spanish-language TV channels. Lots of young fans in LA, particularly Latinos, started wearing Liverpool shirts. They've won 3 FA Cups, a UEFA Cup, and obviously a CL, not even counting last week, since we last won our last major trophy, the FA Cup in 1991. It helps their brand over us.

You see more Spurs shirts these days than before... Kane, Son (and not just Korean fans, although there are plenty in LA); all young fans. Far higher profile due to increased interest and media coverage of the sport in general, and the fact we're challenging for those biggest prizes in the spotlight. It's happening in the ENIC era, so I think they should get some credit.

I don't disagree with any of that particularly the comparison to City and Chelsea.. As they won trophies they got more support.. Especially younger supporters....but in SA where i live we have an older fan base in relation to our rivals that you mentioned above. Interestingly Liverpool and United have a cross section of fans.

Might i just add that my observation is based on where i live so i accept others will see or experience this differently to me.....im on 2 WhatsApp forums... 90% of the supporters are over 45 and started supporting Spurs in 70's or early 80's and have never been to WHL.. Younger support will come with trophies or having star players like Bale/Kane/ Alli etc.

 

[Yiddo100]

Don’t want to sound Disrespectful but joe Lewis isn’t getting any younger, if the worse we’re to happen do we have any idea who would takeover if he is still owner of the club?