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Berbatov

ivo6503

New Member
Feb 22, 2007
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0
I wouldn't say we got 5th by luck. What I would say is that relied too much on individual moments of brilliance from Berbs and Keane primarily.

I understand most people would not like to even consider our achievements as being partially due to luck. But when I look in retrospect at the other teams we were competing with for UEFA places last year it's pretty obvious we should have had 5th spot covered at half-season - I mean Pompey, Everton, Blackburn, Bolton, etc.??? These are the teams we barely managed to overtake at the end (and in the case of Bolton it was mostly due to Big Sam resigning).

5th sounds very good - but it's all relative and, like it's already showing this year, when there're more reasonable teams apart from the top 4 we can't deliver.

Realistically, if we had a separate league now with only us, Newcastle, Everton, Man City, Pompey in it where would we finish? These teams have consistently improved and we've only gotten worse.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
I'm not really defending Berbs - he plays the same way for Bulgaria and sometimes it has made me want to go down and hit him - all I'm saying is that he's that kind of a character and not much can be done about it. What usually helps is if he perceives the other players as better/more established than him (then he starts to really work hard - this happened last season and at Bayer) - but I guess this is out of the question with the current squad and how everyone is playing :(

He needs it to be made easy for him - the team to play well and he to be the first-choice striker. I do not expect him to contribute at all to any revival - he may score 3 tomorrow and would still behave like a child the day after and piss everyone off. Only when the team starts winning without him will he get back on track as attitude.

I'm still furious though - not at Berbs (poor but expected) but at Jol - if someone does not show commitment you don't ask him 3 times - you ground him for as long as it takes. Show some guts FFS.


I can imagine being a Bulgarian national team supporter is frustrating if he is the same there!

I can see what you are getting at with the quality of players around him (apart from Keano of course. Berbs could take a leaf out of that one's book). Even the majority of quality ones are very young and most likely look up to Berbs as to what level of performance they aspire to. If he is the type of character to need people in the team 'on his level' in order to perform when things aren't going well, then I hope we go all out for 1 or 2 of those level of players in Jan, especially if it will lead to Berbs being happier and signing an extended contract :wink:

Oh when I said I wasn't furious anymore, I was talking about Berbs in particular. I'm still pretty pissed about the performance as a whole. I've heard nothing else at work for 2 days now (well 3 months really....) and I just want to be able to go in with my head held high among gooners, scousers, and blue scummers.
You are spot on that Jol should not tolerate it. Maybe tomorrow will tell whether he has or not, though I fear Jol is caught between that rock and hard place. The board, interfering as we think they do, are probably calling for Berbs to play every game, as alot of fans are. Under normal circumstances I don't think Jol would have a problem making that decision, but in the position he's in, it's a tough call what to do.
 

ivo6503

New Member
Feb 22, 2007
13
0
Nice chat :)

I can imagine being a Bulgarian national team supporter is frustrating if he is the same there!

Yep - and the worst part it we have even less options for a replacement :(

I can see what you are getting at with the quality of players around him (apart from Keano of course. Berbs could take a leaf out of that one's book). Even the majority of quality ones are very young and most likely look up to Berbs as to what level of performance they aspire to. If he is the type of character to need people in the team 'on his level' in order to perform when things aren't going well, then I hope we go all out for 1 or 2 of those level of players in Jan, especially if it will lead to Berbs being happier and signing an extended contract :wink:
Very true about Keane - only bright spot together with Bale this season. Actually it's not necessary that the other players are big stars - just the team has to be solid defensively - then the pressure would be on the forwards if they don't perform. Similar to how Rooney, Sheva, Henry, Owen were getting the tough questions when not at their best

You are spot on that Jol should not tolerate it. Maybe tomorrow will tell whether he has or not, though I fear Jol is caught between that rock and hard place. The board, interfering as we think they do, are probably calling for Berbs to play every game, as alot of fans are. Under normal circumstances I don't think Jol would have a problem making that decision, but in the position he's in, it's a tough call what to do.

But that's the point - it's time like these that show what you're made of - not when everything is ok. What would have SAF, Wenger, Mourihno, Benitez, etc. done - try to make everyone happy? No - they would have kicked shoes and made substitutions before half-time. Jol is consistantly inconsistant - that's the only explanation for his actions on Robinson, JJ, JD, Berbs, etc. - you cannot wait for the public opinion to shift before you make a move - this is total lack of leadership.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
Nice chat :)
But that's the point - it's time like these that show what you're made of - not when everything is ok. What would have SAF, Wenger, Mourihno, Benitez, etc. done - try to make everyone happy? No - they would have kicked shoes and made substitutions before half-time.

A bloody good point! But don't you think that certainly at times, Jol is damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't?

Lets just hope Berbs gets us feeling :bowdown: again instead of :eek:mg: and :bang:. Sooner rather than later too :)


And yes it's been a good chat :grin:.
 

orkneyspur

Northern Soul
Sep 9, 2004
2,466
180
Hi guys, once again I would like to point out that the purpose of this thread was to show how disappointed I was with yer man on Monday. I think it gets a bit lost throughout the thread, but both of you are pretty close to how I've felt about the whole thing.
Anyway, PLT we've spoken before and I'm glad to see you getting stuck in.
IVO, you are Berbatov aren't you. Just get it together man and show us moaning bastards what you can do.
Remember this, a good manager is a man who isn't worried about his own career, but the career's of those who work for him. :wink:
 

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Feb 8, 2007
38,502
11,933
I understand most people would not like to even consider our achievements as being partially due to luck. But when I look in retrospect at the other teams we were competing with for UEFA places last year it's pretty obvious we should have had 5th spot covered at half-season - I mean Pompey, Everton, Blackburn, Bolton, etc.??? These are the teams we barely managed to overtake at the end (and in the case of Bolton it was mostly due to Big Sam resigning).


In that case in the 2005/06 season we should've been 4th then? and Arsenal beat us to it by sheer luck? after all, we had been there all year...

I agree that last season the signs were there, the defence was awful and all it needed was a bad patch from one or two of our best player for it to go tits up, we just about managed a plus goal difference last season and that was with 60 goals from 3 strikers, that is a worry, but nobody on here seemed to see it, they were happy with any kind of win and a 3-3 draw at wigan.
 

lilywhitecurtis

Cocknose
May 2, 2005
2,597
1,005
How many of you think his attiude could possibly have something to do with Manure coming sniffing after him?? At the moment, his actions are not something i deem, the actions of a player i want 2 see wearing that beloved shirt... regardless of talent, we have no room for players like that. Shape up or ship out.

If that was Hossam Ghaly, he'd be hung drawn and quartered, by some of the fans on here!
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
I want to see Berbs out of the team tonight, as a show of strength from Jol, to show that petulance will not be tolerated, no matter who you are.

Surely we have a decent enough team to win without him tonight.
 

bogosian

New Member
Aug 29, 2006
621
0
I want to see Berbs out of the team tonight, as a show of strength from Jol, to show that petulance will not be tolerated, no matter who you are.

Surely we have a decent enough team to win without him tonight.

inside-rambo.jpg


yeah, that's the spirit, buddy! it will help immensely!

calm down, will ya?
 

TaoistMonkey

Welcome! Everything is fine.
Staff
Oct 25, 2005
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How many of you think his attiude could possibly have something to do with Manure coming sniffing after him?? At the moment, his actions are not something i deem, the actions of a player i want 2 see wearing that beloved shirt... regardless of talent, we have no room for players like that. Shape up or ship out.

If that was Hossam Ghaly, he'd be hung drawn and quartered, by some of the fans on here!

i concur if you mean that he's got all Jonny big boots on us.

Last season he seemed like a humble man but this season he has got more of an arrogance about him.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
inside-rambo.jpg


yeah, that's the spirit, buddy! it will help immensely!

calm down, will ya?


lol.......

I'm perfectly calm. You think Fergie would play him tonight after Monday? Not a cat in hells chance.

People keep whinging that Jol is too nice, too weak, and too soft, I just want him to show a bit of a nasty streak, and hope it rubs off on the team.
 

TaoistMonkey

Welcome! Everything is fine.
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Oct 25, 2005
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there is a time and a place to put some in their place but dropping out best player just to show some testicles is a bit worrying for the team.

i'm sure jols had a word with him as would have keano, you hope, being captain and everything.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
15,855
32,964
there is a time and a place to put some in their place but dropping out best player just to show some testicles is a bit worrying for the team.

i'm sure jols had a word with him as would have keano, you hope, being captain and everything.


I hope you're right. I guess we will find out in about 11 hrs :)

OK maybe I was being a bit strong with dropping him. As ever though, I am thinking about the good of the team as a whole. Playing him might give the wrong signals to some of the other players.


Who'd be a ******* manager eh?
 

TaoistMonkey

Welcome! Everything is fine.
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Oct 25, 2005
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I hope you're right. I guess we will find out in about 11 hrs :)

OK maybe I was being a bit strong with dropping him. As ever though, I am thinking about the good of the team as a whole. Playing him might give the wrong signals to some of the other players.


Who'd be a ******* manager eh?

yeah i agree, its a tough situation to be in. I could imagine keane having a firery (sp?) temper and should have had a stern word in the ear.

Obviously i'm not, in anyway connected to the club but i'd like to think that the "bollocking" of people is more down keane. Like ManU, i'm sure Roy Keane was more vocal that ferguson when the chips were down.
 

PLTuck

Eternal Optimist
Aug 22, 2006
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yeah i agree, its a tough situation to be in. I could imagine keane having a firery (sp?) temper and should have had a stern word in the ear.

Obviously i'm not, in anyway connected to the club but i'd like to think that the "bollocking" of people is more down keane. Like ManU, i'm sure Roy Keane was more vocal that ferguson when the chips were down.

Yes totally. I can't see our Keano keeping his mouth shut.
Especially after what we heard about the Davids episodes.
Maybe it's Keano he's fallen out with. If he is as sensitive as the earlier poster suggests, maybe he just can't handle criticism, in which case, he's in the wrong job really.


Ack, I don't know, I'm just ******* in the wind really.

If we could genetically splice Keanos attitude and commitment to Berbs genius, well, we'd have a hell of a player. :grin:
 

TaoistMonkey

Welcome! Everything is fine.
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Oct 25, 2005
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yeah too right with that last bit. I think berbs needs some responsibility at the club. He would be a great captain i think but its not fair to strip it from keane.
 
Jun 9, 2003
456
14
Harry Redknapp has now had a go at Berbs and saying Jol would be better off without him, to be honest I agree with what he said as he made some valid points.

Berbs aint doing anything to help Jol out at the moment, trouble is Berbs is at his best in europe, will Jol have the balls to drop him from the team or even the squad altogether ? , I doubt it :-|

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11675_2823374,00.html

Berbs has only hurt himself the way he is acting, can't see Ferguson wanting a spoilt brat. In fact Ferguson would drop him all together :wink:
 
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