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Are we a 'much of a muchness', or a developing squad?

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
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The infamous description from Sherwood went down poorly at the time, but the more I see the squad, the more true it rings. We've rotated quite a bit amongst the team across the season, but we still don't really have a "good" first 11.

With that in mind, do we have a squad of players who are at their peak? Or, in the optimistic sense, are we a team looking to build upon what we have. Don't want to be cruel or harsh, but he's my blunt assessment.

I think that, if we're being honest, it's difficult to pick more than 2 or 3 players in the squad who are massively important to the team, such that we are unlikely to have that many players who are in the team of the week, player of the month, or comparable accolades. It also worries me that we speak to highly of Eriksen in a 'must start' sense when he can be so quiet in games.

Obviously, our three most important/indispensable players are Lloris, Eriksen and Kane. Beyond this, here's my positional evaluation, along with their ages at the start of next season:

Keepers:
Lloris. That's it. Vorm is good, but is sort of a Paul Robinson style keeper that is there as a good backup and not much else.

Defender/Wingback Left:
Rose, 25: Can have good games, but is (even by his standards) so far off the England team and struggles for consistency. Good attitude, but difficult to see him ever being a regular international.
Davies, 22: More of a defender than a wingback imo. Very similar to Rose, but less pacey and more dependable. Seems mature, and is young enough to still have plenty of development in him.

Defender (Center)
Vertonghen, 28: Popular and Captain material, but I wonder whether he has consistent dependable games left in him. He seems to be a wannabe midfielder that players in defence, rather than a solid defender capable of attacking. A good player, but I just can't see him ever being near what we had in King
Dier, 21: One of the best signings we've had for a while, imo. Mature, strong, quick and can score from corners. Non-HG, but looks like a solid world class England defender in the making.
Fazio, 28: Just hasn't looked an upgrade on Dawson. I can't see him getting into the Argentina squad as a regular, and just isn't the standard of player we can rely on in the back 4.
Kaboul, 29: Injury/attitude has ruined him. Was once our best hope of having a world class CB, but is now quite rightly no where near our side, and questionably no longer has PL ability
Chiriches, 25: Has looked good at times, but always has a bodge in him. Unfortunately, he's like an inferior Vertonghen (midfield wannabe) and has looked like a mid-table defender for too long, although I appreciate he's been played out of position for quite a while now.

Defender/Wingback Right:
Walker, 25: Really worried that he's not the answer going forwards. Looked good pre-injury, but it's worrying how much I've missed Naughton since Walker has been back.
Yedlin, 22: Still yet to see him, but looked like an excellent prospect in both positions in the summer for both Seattle and USA. High hopes for him.

Central Midfielders:
Mason, 24: First season, but has had some good games. Really not sure he's deserving of a consistent place in the squad though, as he doesn't seem to offer much more than our other options.
Bentaleb, 20: Keeps improving, our next big player I feel. Has a poor game in him, but makes up for it over the season by far.
Stambouli, 25: Has had some good games, but needs to have a bigger impact in games and could benefit from some more time in the squad. Still unsure about him.
Paulinho, 27: A square peg in a round hole. Not been the same since he got flattened by Adam, and is neither a good DM or good #10. Can't see a use for him in the squad at all.
Dembele, 28: Has shown some signs of real talent, but we could be running out of time to find that magic position we know he has in him.
Capoue, 27: So confused by him. He's an inferior version of Vertonghen playing in Midfielder, but capable (just) of being a CB. Just not a very good one in either position. He's a 'meh' player that you'd expect to see at a club like Everton or Palace.

Wingers/Wide/Attacking Midfielders:
Eriksen, 23: Free-kick specialist, and gets some good goals from midfield. Unsure where he's best playing, and needs more unpredictability in his game to stop him being silenced, but one of our better players on the evidence so far.
Chadli, 26: Started the season so well, but has been so crap since his bereavement. If he can get back to form he can be important, but I feel he probably will only be given until the end of the season to prove that to the coaching staff.
Townsend, 24: Wants it so much, wants to be Bale so badly, but he reminds me so much of Dawson in such that determination and desire can only get you so far. Just can't see him being the player that he wants and needs to be.
Lamela, 23: Has youth on his side, and has adapted to the pressing game well in recent times. Still has plenty of time to prove himself, but needs to offer more in attack in order to be part of a push to improve as a team. Wouldn't be upset in the slightest if we sold him for £20m, though.

Strikers:
Nothing worth saying. We have Soldado in purgatory, Adebayor in mental rehab, and Kane doing it all himself.

With that in mind, I can only see the following being part of our 'need to keep' future, if we really want to improve as a squad:

Lloris, Dier, Bentaleb, Eriksen, Kane.

I think the following need to be offloaded and offer nothing:
Kaboul, Fazio, Capoue, Paulinho, Adebayor, Chiriches

The rest either still need to prove themselves, or are players we need not be too concerned about leaving.


Now, I accept fully that many will disagree with what I'm saying here, especially around players like Vertonghen perhaps, but it's really worrying how many players we have we are just filling up spaces on the team registration list, without actually being quality players.
 

talkshowhost86

Mod-Moose
Staff
Oct 2, 2004
48,105
47,061
It's an average squad.

There are some developing players but also plenty of gaps we need to recruit in.

This Summer is huge for us.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
It's an average squad.

There are some developing players but also plenty of gaps we need to recruit in.

This Summer is huge for us.

I don't see how we can fill so many gaps without having the same "gelling" issue again.

I just see our team as like a crap Menu, where there's load of options on it, but half of them are just slight variations based on a McDonalds chicken burger. Essentially, the same crap just with different names and no real improvements that make any of them actually any better than each other.
 

JohannTHFC

Active Member
Aug 2, 2014
795
1,293
Our wingers are absolutely awful, not sure our fullbacks are good enough to play this system either..
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
The infamous description from Sherwood went down poorly at the time, but the more I see the squad, the more true it rings. We've rotated quite a bit amongst the team across the season, but we still don't really have a "good" first 11.

With that in mind, do we have a squad of players who are at their peak? Or, in the optimistic sense, are we a team looking to build upon what we have. Don't want to be cruel or harsh, but he's my blunt assessment.

I think that, if we're being honest, it's difficult to pick more than 2 or 3 players in the squad who are massively important to the team, such that we are unlikely to have that many players who are in the team of the week, player of the month, or comparable accolades. It also worries me that we speak to highly of Eriksen in a 'must start' sense when he can be so quiet in games.

Obviously, our three most important/indispensable players are Lloris, Eriksen and Kane. Beyond this, here's my positional evaluation, along with their ages at the start of next season:

Keepers:
Lloris. That's it. Vorm is good, but is sort of a Paul Robinson style keeper that is there as a good backup and not much else.

Defender/Wingback Left:
Rose, 25: Can have good games, but is (even by his standards) so far off the England team and struggles for consistency. Good attitude, but difficult to see him ever being a regular international.
Davies, 22: More of a defender than a wingback imo. Very similar to Rose, but less pacey and more dependable. Seems mature, and is young enough to still have plenty of development in him.

Defender (Center)
Vertonghen, 28: Popular and Captain material, but I wonder whether he has consistent dependable games left in him. He seems to be a wannabe midfielder that players in defence, rather than a solid defender capable of attacking. A good player, but I just can't see him ever being near what we had in King
Dier, 21: One of the best signings we've had for a while, imo. Mature, strong, quick and can score from corners. Non-HG, but looks like a solid world class England defender in the making.
Fazio, 28: Just hasn't looked an upgrade on Dawson. I can't see him getting into the Argentina squad as a regular, and just isn't the standard of player we can rely on in the back 4.
Kaboul, 29: Injury/attitude has ruined him. Was once our best hope of having a world class CB, but is now quite rightly no where near our side, and questionably no longer has PL ability
Chiriches, 25: Has looked good at times, but always has a bodge in him. Unfortunately, he's like an inferior Vertonghen (midfield wannabe) and has looked like a mid-table defender for too long, although I appreciate he's been played out of position for quite a while now.

Defender/Wingback Right:
Walker, 25: Really worried that he's not the answer going forwards. Looked good pre-injury, but it's worrying how much I've missed Naughton since Walker has been back.
Yedlin, 22: Still yet to see him, but looked like an excellent prospect in both positions in the summer for both Seattle and USA. High hopes for him.

Central Midfielders:
Mason, 24: First season, but has had some good games. Really not sure he's deserving of a consistent place in the squad though, as he doesn't seem to offer much more than our other options.
Bentaleb, 20: Keeps improving, our next big player I feel. Has a poor game in him, but makes up for it over the season by far.
Stambouli, 25: Has had some good games, but needs to have a bigger impact in games and could benefit from some more time in the squad. Still unsure about him.
Paulinho, 27: A square peg in a round hole. Not been the same since he got flattened by Adam, and is neither a good DM or good #10. Can't see a use for him in the squad at all.
Dembele, 28: Has shown some signs of real talent, but we could be running out of time to find that magic position we know he has in him.
Capoue, 27: So confused by him. He's an inferior version of Vertonghen playing in Midfielder, but capable (just) of being a CB. Just not a very good one in either position. He's a 'meh' player that you'd expect to see at a club like Everton or Palace.

Wingers/Wide/Attacking Midfielders:
Eriksen, 23: Free-kick specialist, and gets some good goals from midfield. Unsure where he's best playing, and needs more unpredictability in his game to stop him being silenced, but one of our better players on the evidence so far.
Chadli, 26: Started the season so well, but has been so crap since his bereavement. If he can get back to form he can be important, but I feel he probably will only be given until the end of the season to prove that to the coaching staff.
Townsend, 24: Wants it so much, wants to be Bale so badly, but he reminds me so much of Dawson in such that determination and desire can only get you so far. Just can't see him being the player that he wants and needs to be.
Lamela, 23: Has youth on his side, and has adapted to the pressing game well in recent times. Still has plenty of time to prove himself, but needs to offer more in attack in order to be part of a push to improve as a team. Wouldn't be upset in the slightest if we sold him for £20m, though.

Strikers:
Nothing worth saying. We have Soldado in purgatory, Adebayor in mental rehab, and Kane doing it all himself.

With that in mind, I can only see the following being part of our 'need to keep' future, if we really want to improve as a squad:

Lloris, Dier, Bentaleb, Eriksen, Kane.

I think the following need to be offloaded and offer nothing:
Kaboul, Fazio, Capoue, Paulinho, Adebayor, Chiriches

The rest either still need to prove themselves, or are players we need not be too concerned about leaving.


Now, I accept fully that many will disagree with what I'm saying here, especially around players like Vertonghen perhaps, but it's really worrying how many players we have we are just filling up spaces on the team registration list, without actually being quality players.
You are right to an extent, the squad is full of a lot of average or not good enough players.

BUT I think Potch has realised that and has now decided on the best group to take us forward. The real question is this summer will he actually be back properly will we finally get rid of the ones you mentioned who need shifting and will we bring in a few players who will take us forward.

I think its quite obvious the areas we could really improve in mainly are : The wide forward roles, back-up for Kane.
Chadli, Lamela, Townsend, Eriksen(let him off as he's been class most the year), otherwise they all go missing too often and have far too many games where they really offer little threat. Look at Chelsea and every time Hazard, Willian, Oscar etc get the ball we shit our pants.

The same with City with Silva, Nasri, Aguero, Navas etc but you have to remember for the size of club we are we have a pretty decent squad and simply but it just needs a bit of sorting out. We cant afford or attract the likes of Costa but we have a great young spine and good young manager who is taking us in the right direction so I think all is looking as good as it can be until we get the new stadium but we do need a good squad sort out in summer.

COYS.
 

Greenspur

Very old member
Sep 1, 2004
2,681
3,090
I normally don't get involved in tactical discussions (mostly because I don't feel qualified), However, I have been feeling for some time that this Spurs team is not very good. It's not awful, but not great.
I often see posts on SC, such as 'Palace - we'll easily do them 3-0', or 'Fiorentina - easy draw'. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Please understand that the current team is reasonable, acceptable, and so on - but not good.
 

King of Otters

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2012
10,751
36,093
Poch has done an admirable job considering the tools at his disposal. Levy seems to have stumbled on a decent coach, for once, let's hope he does the decent thing and backs him to the hilt in the summer.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
I normally don't get involved in tactical discussions (mostly because I don't feel qualified), However, I have been feeling for some time that this Spurs team is not very good. It's not awful, but not great.
I often see posts on SC, such as 'Palace - we'll easily do them 3-0', or 'Fiorentina - easy draw'. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Please understand that the current team is reasonable, acceptable, and so on - but not good.

I agree, and I don't like "tactical" discussions, and really don't want this thread to turn into a borefest of "who suits Poch's system", as I largely believe that to be bollocks.

It's been years since I thought we could go out and win every game, and the perception that the squad has improved since then is just a complete fallacy imo
 

Larryjanta

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2014
1,953
5,040
At the start of the season I would have said much of a muchness but, with players like Kane, Mason and Bentaleb coming through, it's clear how defective our squad is. Also clear that Poch doesn't rate or trust at least 7 of the squad players. Can't wait till they're gone to be honest
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
this same thing gets wheeled out all the time, why are we always so intent on overhauling the squad? we could sell 20, buy 20 and you'll still feel the same way, not even the best teams in the world have 20 players all on the same level. we don't have unlimited money, it's going to be like this for a while.
 

Larryjanta

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2014
1,953
5,040
I normally don't get involved in tactical discussions (mostly because I don't feel qualified), However, I have been feeling for some time that this Spurs team is not very good. It's not awful, but not great.
I often see posts on SC, such as 'Palace - we'll easily do them 3-0', or 'Fiorentina - easy draw'. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Please understand that the current team is reasonable, acceptable, and so on - but not good.

I think 8/9 of our first XI is top four worthy but there are always a couple who let us down and our squad us full of players who wouldn't be anywhere near any other side in the top 10
 

Larryjanta

Well-Known Member
Apr 22, 2014
1,953
5,040
this same thing gets wheeled out all the time, why are we always so intent on overhauling the squad? we could sell 20, buy 20 and you'll still feel the same way, not even the best teams in the world have 20 players all on the same level. we don't have unlimited money, it's going to be like this for a while.

Promote more youth surely the only lesson here. Give them time with a manager who has a track record of getting the most out of players and, frankly, if we have a youngster not quite as good as some of our squad players, I'd rather we gave them time to learn than watch players like Paulinho who is already as good as he will ever be run around for 90mins.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
this same thing gets wheeled out all the time, why are we always so intent on overhauling the squad? we could sell 20, buy 20 and you'll still feel the same way, not even the best teams in the world have 20 players all on the same level. we don't have unlimited money, it's going to be like this for a while.

Alternatively, why are we so insistent on persevering with players who are clearly not cutting it.

We're like Liverpool with some of our players, constantly thinking "next season he'll be the real deal"
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Alternatively, why are we so insistent on persevering with players who are clearly not cutting it.

We're like Liverpool with some of our players, constantly thinking "next season he'll be the real deal"

like who? most of those who haven't performed are clearly being phased out. the fan's solution is always to sell everyone and buy better players, then when they get bored of them after a year do the same again. i'm glad the club has seemingly moved away from this philosophy as quite frankly, i'm sick of it.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
No I do not think we are much of a muchness any more, a clear first XI is at last emerging, but they are very young and inexperienced, and individually and collectively are going to have dips in form, particularly if overplayed..

If anything our problem is that our second XI, assembled at huge expense, is not of the same standard as our largely home-grown first XI.
 

dondo

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
8,603
14,091
Think we have a good devolving squad but to make the next step up we need a top quality CB CM and wide forward which obliviously is going to be very hard for us to do
 

lukespurs7

Well-Known Member
Feb 21, 2006
4,833
4,259
In a way its been a massive blessing that we now are relying on so many young players and want to sell a lot of the ones with more so called 'market value'. If it were the other way round we'd mabye not be able to get much for the younger ones as they're really very unproven but the likes of Ade, Pauliniho, Capoue, Soldado etc we should be able to at least get a decent chunk which if we invest wisely this time will really take us forward.
 

225

Living in hope, existing in disappointment
Dec 15, 2014
4,563
9,064
like who? most of those who haven't performed are clearly being phased out. the fan's solution is always to sell everyone and buy better players, then when they get bored of them after a year do the same again.

Paulinho... probably even Dembele, who has been promising and not providing since 2012
 

only1waddle

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2012
8,150
12,294
No I do not think we are much of a muchness any more, a clear first XI is at last emerging, but they are very young and inexperienced, and individually and collectively are going to have dips in form, particularly if overplayed..

If anything our problem is that our second XI, assembled at huge expense, is not of the same standard as our largely home-grown first XI.


Bingo, 1st 11 needs a few tweaks and improvements but our 2nd 11 is quite bland, its been a strange season what with players being sent to Coventry and others Poch doesn't trust.
 
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