Another boss bites the dust but Franco Baldini’s survival raises questions

[gusrowe]

It does raise questions about this guy. Is he really any good!!

Read the full article at Evening Standard

 

[Jamturk]

Well I for 1 am hoping he has Levy's ear for the next head coach

 

[Edgarsglasses]

Yes and raises even more questions of Danny boy

 

[Roynie]

I hope he has more to do with the next appointment than Levy. If Levy were only a Chairman he would have been sacked for the number of managers he has appointed that haven't made the grade. It has to raise questions over his decision making ability as regards personnel.

 

[greaves]

Well I for 1 am hoping he has Levy's ear for the next head coach

I think he's lucky Levy hasn't had his head.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

I hope he has more to do with the next appointment than Levy. If Levy were only a Chairman he would have been sacked for the number of managers he has appointed that haven't made the grade. It has to raise questions over his decision making ability as regards personnel.

I'd say levy is in a position a lot more complex than you give him credit for.
I'd say 1 in 100 working managers around the world are capable of great things. An elite few.
Of those 10% probably 60% are already in the top jobs, Wenger, Fergie(pensioner) Ancelotti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Rogers, Klopp, Loew,
They're entirely unattainable for us.
Then there's a second tier. The May be greats. This is pond levy can fish in. He can cast his line and he might pick a tiddler, he might land something special.

So far dear old Daniel has cast his line numerous times into this pond and, despite lots of hope, he's landed the shit left behind by the tiddlers.
He's just going to have to keep casting that line, seeing what he's got, then throwing it back if it transpires it's garbage. Which invariably it is.

 

[Roynie]

I'd say levy is in a position a lot more complex than you give him credit for.
I'd say 1 in 100 working managers around the world are capable of great things. An elite few.
Of those 10% probably 60% are already in the top jobs, Wenger, Fergie(pensioner) Ancelotti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Rogers, Klopp, Loew,
They're entirely unattainable for us.
Then there's a second tier. The May be greats. This is pond levy can fish in. He can cast his line and he might pick a tiddler, he might land something special.

So far dear old Daniel has cast his line numerous times into this pond and, despite lots of hope, he's landed the shit left behind by the tiddlers.
He's just going to have to keep casting that line, seeing what he's got, then throwing it back if it transpires it's garbage. Which invariably it is.

I appreciate my argument is a little (?) simplistic and, if I'm being honest, it's said more in frustration than my genuine view. I know he has done wonders with the club finances and I think we would be in real trouble without him. I do just wish he would stay out of the football matters and let those who have more experience in such matters get on with it.

 

[Roynie]

Then there's a second tier. The May be greats. This is pond levy can fish in. He can cast his line and he might pick a tiddler, he might land something special.

So far dear old Daniel has cast his line numerous times into this pond and, despite lots of hope, he's landed the shit left behind by the tiddlers.
He's just going to have to keep casting that line, seeing what he's got, then throwing it back if it transpires it's garbage. Which invariably it is.

Despite my last comment, if he does find the next big thing in football management I'll claim I knew he would do all the time!

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

I appreciate my argument is a little (?) simplistic and, if I'm being honest, it's said more in frustration than my genuine view. I know he has done wonders with the club finances and I think we would be in real trouble without him. I do just wish he would stay out of the football matters and let those who have more experience in such matters get on with it.

Who is there in the world that can guarantee that our next appointment will be a success?
Even Fergie Fucked up his recommendation for his replacement.

 

[Roynie]

Who is there in the world that can guarantee that our next appointment will be a success?
Even Fergie Fucked up his recommendation for his replacement.

Good point, well presented! I does, however, seem that our beloved leader could actually be zeroing in on some targets with real potential. Let's hope it hits the jackpot this time!

 

[Kiedis]

Well, that's 30 seconds of my life wasted. Hoped that it would offer insight.

 

[Danners9]

Spurs had to be seen to invest the Bale money, it is too much to just be swallowed up into the running of the club.

Signing that many players was always going to be a risk, but at the same time it was exciting and we went into the season with optimism that losing GB might be ok in the end as it strengthens the side. Managerial turmoil didn't help, and the restrictive tactics of AVB didn't do much to show us all it was going to be a success.

As for Baldini, it depends what his role was at the time - if he was there to negotiate good deals then that's probably a failure as 2 of the signings were release clauses. If it was to deal with the players and convince them to join, that's probably a success - as they did.

What is clear is that Spurs and Levy lurch from one idea to the next. A manager, a head coach with DoF, a British one, a foreign one, a British one, a foreign one again. Now what. They need to decide and stick to something for more than a few seasons.

 

[UbeAstard]

I'd say levy is in a position a lot more complex than you give him credit for.
I'd say 1 in 100 working managers around the world are capable of great things. An elite few.
Of those 10% probably 60% are already in the top jobs, Wenger, Fergie(pensioner) Ancelotti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Rogers, Klopp, Loew,
They're entirely unattainable for us.
Then there's a second tier. The May be greats. This is pond levy can fish in. He can cast his line and he might pick a tiddler, he might land something special.

So far dear old Daniel has cast his line numerous times into this pond and, despite lots of hope, he's landed the shit left behind by the tiddlers.
He's just going to have to keep casting that line, seeing what he's got, then throwing it back if it transpires it's garbage. Which invariably it is.

Easily overlooked by people with their scattergun or who just want to point blame but their argument doesn't really stand up.
Considering also every one of those dismissal's and appointments have been lauded by various sections of our supporters. Mr Levy cant seem to do right for all his good intentions...........

 

[striebs]

I hope he has more to do with the next appointment than Levy. If Levy were only a Chairman he would have been sacked for the number of managers he has appointed that haven't made the grade. It has to raise questions over his decision making ability as regards personnel.

Roynie ,

Levy even sacks the ones who do make the grade , eg Harry .

If Levy had of been manager during Keith Burkenshaws first year when we got relegated there is no way Keith would have been retained .

How long would Bill Nich have lasted under Levy ? 9 months ? Not even that ?

About the only difference would have been that there wouldn't have been an official site to publish the clubs statements .

 

[striebs]

Easily overlooked by people with their scattergun or who just want to point blame but their argument doesn't really stand up.
Considering also every one of those dismissal's and appointments have been lauded by various sections of our supporters. Mr Levy cant seem to do right for all his good intentions...........

Isn't that the saddest thing - that the Levy has managed to turn the fans into the image of his fickle self .

Certain "supporters" are ganging up on the manager from the word go .

 

[Jamturk]

Roynie ,

Levy even sacks the ones who do make the grade , eg Harry .

If Levy had of been manager during Keith Burkenshaws first year when we got relegated there is no way Keith would have been retained .

How long would Bill Nich have lasted under Levy ? 9 months ? Not even that ?

About the only difference would have been that there wouldn't have been an official site to publish the clubs statements .

Most people on here know that Redknapp wasn't sacked for football reasons.

There are many more dimensions to being a manager than results on the pitch.

 

[Sauniere]

I'd say levy is in a position a lot more complex than you give him credit for.
I'd say 1 in 100 working managers around the world are capable of great things. An elite few.
Of those 10% probably 60% are already in the top jobs, Wenger, Fergie(pensioner) Ancelotti, Guardiola, Mourinho, Rogers, Klopp, Loew,
They're entirely unattainable for us.
Then there's a second tier. The May be greats. This is pond levy can fish in. He can cast his line and he might pick a tiddler, he might land something special.

So far dear old Daniel has cast his line numerous times into this pond and, despite lots of hope, he's landed the shit left behind by the tiddlers.
He's just going to have to keep casting that line, seeing what he's got, then throwing it back if it transpires it's garbage. Which invariably it is.

You need to work on your maths - 1 in 100 is 1% not 10%

I don't think Levy's position is complex at all. He wants instant success much the same way that Abramovich wanted to win the Champions League. Obviously the scale of the relative success is different between the two however their attitude is the same. I honestly believe Levy thinks it's just a numbers game and one of these appointments will be a success but it's not working. Every manager he appoints and sacks means a decent, established manager is less likely to come to the club creating a downward spiral and a smaller pond to fish in - using your own analogy. This also means that the club is always in a constant flux with players and we never have an established, bedded in team. One manager takes on another managers players, fails, next manager buys a shedload of players, fails to get them playing together in the restricted timeframe allowed by DL and is sacked and so it continues.

I'm puzzled about the names you mentioned there as well - Wenger, Ancellotti, Mourinho, Fergie (who is not in a management position), Guardiola most people would agree with but the others are not so clear cut in my opinion. What elevates them above a whole host of other names doing well with their current clubs? Rodgers? Spurs could have appointed him when he joined Liverpool so he's not that unattainable he just doesn't want to come to a club with our horrific track record of sacking managers. He did well with Swansea and then finished 7th with Liverpool last season, lower than we finished this season. He was given a chance and finished second but what makes him more capable of being great than anyone else? Kevin Keegan famously finished second with Newcastle and look at the heady managerial heights he achieved......

Low - 10 years as a club coach winning the Austrian league once I believe. Next 10 years managing Germany, winning nothing but continuing their historical knack of qualifying and getting to the later rounds of tournaments. He's a decent coach obviously but what elevates him to this capable of greatness you're talking of?

I think these tiers you mention are more simply categorised as good, established managers (of which there are a few as you rightly say) then those with the potential to be good manager of which there are quite a lot and then the others.

Levy's endless fishing for instant success will strangle Spurs until the only way we can appoint a decent manager is by throwing ridiculous amounts of cash at them which is not what Levy is about. All of those established managers above have been given time at their various clubs and/or have been appointed when the clubs are already doing relatively well.

I think Levy has to change his approach or hand the reins to someone else.

Having said all of that - this next appointment could be the one so fingers crossed and all that

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

You need to work on your maths - 1 in 100 is 1% not 10%

I don't think Levy's position is complex at all. He wants instant success much the same way that Abramovich wanted to win the Champions League. Obviously the scale of the relative success is different between the two however their attitude is the same. I honestly believe Levy thinks it's just a numbers game and one of these appointments will be a success but it's not working. Every manager he appoints and sacks means a decent, established manager is less likely to come to the club creating a downward spiral and a smaller pond to fish in - using your own analogy. This also means that the club is always in a constant flux with players and we never have an established, bedded in team. One manager takes on another managers players, fails, next manager buys a shedload of players, fails to get them playing together in the restricted timeframe allowed by DL and is sacked and so it continues.

I'm puzzled about the names you mentioned there as well - Wenger, Ancellotti, Mourinho, Fergie (who is not in a management position), Guardiola most people would agree with but the others are not so clear cut in my opinion. What elevates them above a whole host of other names doing well with their current clubs? Rodgers? Spurs could have appointed him when he joined Liverpool so he's not that unattainable he just doesn't want to come to a club with our horrific track record of sacking managers. He did well with Swansea and then finished 7th with Liverpool last season, lower than we finished this season. He was given a chance and finished second but what makes him more capable of being great than anyone else? Kevin Keegan famously finished second with Newcastle and look at the heady managerial heights he achieved......

Low - 10 years as a club coach winning the Austrian league once I believe. Next 10 years managing Germany, winning nothing but continuing their historical knack of qualifying and getting to the later rounds of tournaments. He's a decent coach obviously but what elevates him to this capable of greatness you're talking of?

I think these tiers you mention are more simply categorised as good, established managers (of which there are a few as you rightly say) then those with the potential to be good manager of which there are quite a lot and then the others.

Levy's endless fishing for instant success will strangle Spurs until the only way we can appoint a decent manager is by throwing ridiculous amounts of cash at them which is not what Levy is about. All of those established managers above have been given time at their various clubs and/or have been appointed when the clubs are already doing relatively well.

I think Levy has to change his approach or hand the reins to someone else.

Having said all of that - this next appointment could be the one so fingers crossed and all that

Rogers was attainable when at Swansea. He was in that pond I mentioned. He's since gone to Liverpool, after turning down spurs, and, having very very nearly winning the title, playing spectacular football, put himself week in the higher echelon of football manager credibility.
Klopp is one of the most sought after club managers in world football.
Loew has transformed Germany from on the edge of disaster back to perinial challengers. Should he ever indicate a desire to go to club management, he'd be in as high demand as Van Gaal.
As for Fergie, you can't talk about great managers of the modern era and not mention him. I clearly noted he's retired, but if he wasn't, he'd be unattainable. He even turned us down before United and we were arguably better than them back then.

Yes, my maths were out. I was eating chicken and noodles at lakeside and wasn't concentrating.

 

[Sauniere]

Rogers was attainable when at Swansea. He was in that pond I mentioned. He's since gone to Liverpool, after turning down spurs, and, having very very nearly winning the title, playing spectacular football, put himself week in the higher echelon of football manager credibility.
Klopp is one of the most sought after club managers in world football.
Loew has transformed Germany from on the edge of disaster back to perinial challengers. Should he ever indicate a desire to go to club management, he'd be in as high demand as Van Gaal.
As for Fergie, you can't talk about great managers of the modern era and not mention him. I clearly noted he's retired, but if he wasn't, he'd be unattainable. He even turned us down before United and we were arguably better than them back then.

Yes, my maths were out. I was eating chicken and noodles at lakeside and wasn't concentrating.

I'm sorry but coming 2nd doesn't automatically elevate him to some higher echelon of football management, not if that higher echelon includes those other names I quoted from you, there's no comparison, not yet at any rate. He's done a good job at Liverpool don't get me wrong but he's far from the finished article, his team simply outscored the opposition this season with very little attention paid to their defence, reminded me of Spurs a few seasons ago although with a little more success.

Klopp - "Klopp is one of the most sought after club managers in world football" you're just quoting internet straplines - who is seeking him? Again, good manager, can't argue with that, he's doing a great job at his current club and yes I'd probably like to see him managing us, his time will come with a big club no doubt but he openly stated last year that Chelsea and Man City didn't come in for him (contrary to the reports at the time) Man Utd haven't bothered - who are these teams that are approaching him?

Low - Klinsmann started the turn around of Germany's fortunes (granted with Low as his assistant) and I'd hardly call it being rescued from the edge of disaster having been runners up in world cup 2 years earlier:

2002 WC runners up, 2004 Euros failed at group stage (under Voller) Klinsmann appointed - 2006 3rd place in WC, 2008 Low appointed just before Euros - runners up, 2010 WC 3rd, 2012 Euros 3rd.

I think you're right regarding the Van Gaal comment but you didn't mention VG in your list of greats.

 

[Sarsipius]

You need to work on your maths - 1 in 100 is 1% not 10%

I don't think Levy's position is complex at all. He wants instant success much the same way that Abramovich wanted to win the Champions League. Obviously the scale of the relative success is different between the two however their attitude is the same. I honestly believe Levy thinks it's just a numbers game and one of these appointments will be a success but it's not working. Every manager he appoints and sacks means a decent, established manager is less likely to come to the club creating a downward spiral and a smaller pond to fish in - using your own analogy. This also means that the club is always in a constant flux with players and we never have an established, bedded in team. One manager takes on another managers players, fails, next manager buys a shedload of players, fails to get them playing together in the restricted timeframe allowed by DL and is sacked and so it continues.

I'm puzzled about the names you mentioned there as well - Wenger, Ancellotti, Mourinho, Fergie (who is not in a management position), Guardiola most people would agree with but the others are not so clear cut in my opinion. What elevates them above a whole host of other names doing well with their current clubs? Rodgers? Spurs could have appointed him when he joined Liverpool so he's not that unattainable he just doesn't want to come to a club with our horrific track record of sacking managers. He did well with Swansea and then finished 7th with Liverpool last season, lower than we finished this season. He was given a chance and finished second but what makes him more capable of being great than anyone else? Kevin Keegan famously finished second with Newcastle and look at the heady managerial heights he achieved......

Low - 10 years as a club coach winning the Austrian league once I believe. Next 10 years managing Germany, winning nothing but continuing their historical knack of qualifying and getting to the later rounds of tournaments. He's a decent coach obviously but what elevates him to this capable of greatness you're talking of?

I think these tiers you mention are more simply categorised as good, established managers (of which there are a few as you rightly say) then those with the potential to be good manager of which there are quite a lot and then the others.

Levy's endless fishing for instant success will strangle Spurs until the only way we can appoint a decent manager is by throwing ridiculous amounts of cash at them which is not what Levy is about. All of those established managers above have been given time at their various clubs and/or have been appointed when the clubs are already doing relatively well.

I think Levy has to change his approach or hand the reins to someone else.

Having said all of that - this next appointment could be the one so fingers crossed and all that

Sorry Sauniere, but I don't follow your argument at all.

You say Levy wants instant success in the mould of Abramovich but it's quite clear he hasn't followed Abramovich's method in the slightest. Quite the opposite in fact.

The focus on youth development and the purchasing of players not yet at their fullest potential plus a willingness to sell players on for large profit in order to be reinvested 'carefully' actually shows a man who understands that in order to break into the top echelons without the same financial clout of the sugar-daddy clubs you have to build from the ground up, gradually improving every area of the club.

The finance invested in the new training ground shows that he cares about the long term infrastructure rather than trying to purchase 'instant success' by paying over the odds at every opportunity vis a vis Chelsea and Citeh.

So many people on here blame Levy for not appointing the next Mourinho or Fergie as if that's the easiest and most obvious thing to do ever. It's a bit like telling a film director to only make great movies. Oh yeah, why didn't anyone think of that before?

Everyone of our managerial appointments came with a good argument and Levy and co weighed these up before committing. One also has to bear in mind the availability of head coaches coupled to the draw of managing THFC. That they haven't worked out as optimistically as we all hope you can't deny the club has been on an upward trajectory since the beginning of his tenure.

Our PL finishes during this time shows the trend clearly, even if we have plateaued recently (Bale's departure, new squad, manager chops etc).

But I certainly don't think we're in a bad place right now and actually we're pretty much where we were at the end of last season when we had the best points total ever *yawn* ie qualified for Europa League.

Meanwhile, our squad is packed with talent and the money invested by Baldini and co has been spent wisely, in my opinion. The only error of last summer being the oversight at left-back. If we had secured Coentrão or similar I reckon our season could have looked quite different.

Obviously the next managerial appointment is key as we're at a juncture between possible improvement or further stagnation but considering the supposed fiasco of this season things actually aren't so bad.

I for one am relishing the prospect of Lamela and Eriksen in the same side next year and with the right guidance believe this team could actually prove very tasty indeed.