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Alderweireld happy at Tottenham

yiddopaul

Well-Known Member
Dec 28, 2005
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There is no "delay". They are negotiating. Negotiating takes time. Months. Years, sometimes. And now they are busy with a football season, which takes precedence.



I'd propose that, when you've gone through about 8 managers in about 13 years, looking for the right one, and you finally find him, you haven't been "lucky", you've been "persistent" and "determined".

People forget stuff. I don't. There was strong ITK within a few weeks of Pochettino's arrival that Levy was telling people at the club that he had finally found his man. That's got nothing to do with "luck", even when you factor in the unexpected events with Ramos, Redknapp/Capello and AVB. It's demanding the best and continuing to recruit until you find it.
I totally agree, lucky was the wrong word, clearly - as you say - there was always a plan in place finding the right man. Maybe we were fortunate in the timing in that it happened around the time of the new build, everything just seemed to come together.

Although, as with anything, there's sometimes an element of luck in that Poch just happened to be available at the time we were looking for a new man. So maybe there was luck in the timing, not the process we used in finding the right man... I know what I mean o_O
 

Metalhead

But that's a debate for another thread.....
Nov 24, 2013
25,352
38,295
There is no "delay". They are negotiating. Negotiating takes time. Months. Years, sometimes. And now they are busy with a football season, which takes precedence.



I'd propose that, when you've gone through about 8 managers in about 13 years, looking for the right one, and you finally find him, you haven't been "lucky", you've been "persistent" and "determined".

People forget stuff. I don't. There was strong ITK within a few weeks of Pochettino's arrival that Levy was telling people at the club that he had finally found his man. That's got nothing to do with "luck", even when you factor in the unexpected events with Ramos, Redknapp/Capello and AVB. It's demanding the best and continuing to recruit until you find it.
Would you say that Sugar was determined and persistent? I'm not trying to be antagonistic in saying that. In theory he was forever in search of the right man too but in his case, it didn't always seem like a tremendous amount of insight went into the appointments. It was either seeking the 'man of the moment' or someone with an emotional connection with the fans or a firefighter. Perhaps Hoddle as Levy's first appointment could have been an appointment to curry favour with the fans although he did have some pedigree.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
6,516
There is no "delay". They are negotiating. Negotiating takes time. Months. Years, sometimes. And now they are busy with a football season, which takes precedence.



I'd propose that, when you've gone through about 8 managers in about 13 years, looking for the right one, and you finally find him, you haven't been "lucky", you've been "persistent" and "determined".

People forget stuff. I don't. There was strong ITK within a few weeks of Pochettino's arrival that Levy was telling people at the club that he had finally found his man. That's got nothing to do with "luck", even when you factor in the unexpected events with Ramos, Redknapp/Capello and AVB. It's demanding the best and continuing to recruit until you find it.

I'd counter-propose that when you've gone through so many so quickly that you've already done a bad job, and the law of averages suggests that if you throw enough darts at the board...

And the owners haven't answered Poch's calls for bravery no matter how people want to spin this. He is surely far more likely to walk after that summer than he was before it. Who wouldn't be?
 
May 17, 2018
11,872
47,993
ENIC lucked out on Bale, Poch, and Kane- how many other owners spent £5m on an asset sold for £85m, and nothing on a home-grown striker bulging the net 30 times a season?!

Christ - you'll look for any excuse for a dig!

Bale was bought as an 18 year old for quite a big fee at the time. Around the same time, the club paid more than £16m each for Bent and Bentley. 10/11 years ago, that was a significant outlay.

So if ENIC were "lucky" with Bale (level 10 cherry picking), were they "unlucky" with the other club record transfers that turned out to be dog shit?

What you should be feeling "lucky" about is that we haven't sold our "free" 30 goal a season striker - you'll struggle to find examples of them because clubs sell them as soon as they show some value.
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
There is no "delay". They are negotiating. Negotiating takes time. Months. Years, sometimes. And now they are busy with a football season, which takes precedence.



I'd propose that, when you've gone through about 8 managers in about 13 years, looking for the right one, and you finally find him, you haven't been "lucky", you've been "persistent" and "determined".

People forget stuff. I don't. There was strong ITK within a few weeks of Pochettino's arrival that Levy was telling people at the club that he had finally found his man. That's got nothing to do with "luck", even when you factor in the unexpected events with Ramos, Redknapp/Capello and AVB. It's demanding the best and continuing to recruit until you find it.


It’s a great shame we weren’t more persistent and determined to bring in even 1 addition to our squad in the summer. What do you think the reason for that was ?
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
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It’s a great shame we weren’t more persistent and determined to bring in even 1 addition to our squad in the summer. What do you think the reason for that was ?

We didn't try very hard. It's very difficult to find a player at a realistic fee who can improve our squad depth and won't expect to play every match at the expense of our established players.

We're just too good for our financial position. Our squad quality, contrasted with our unwillingness and inability to pay high wages and high fees, does not fit the world football market.

I struggle to think of another club in Europe whose squad strength is such a mismatch with its financial status. Irrespective of the capital costs of the stadium. Capital investment is a separate area of finance.

Let's wait until we've been in the new stadium for 5-10 years. That might change things materially. Until the increased revenue becomes established, we will be as we are: over-performing.
 
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dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
We didn't try very hard. It's very difficult to find a player at a realistic fee who can improve our squad depth and won't expect to play every match at the expense of or established players.

We're just too good for our financial position. Our squad quality, contrasted with our unwillingness and inability to pay high wages and high fees, does not fit the world football market.

I struggle to think of another club in Europe whose squad strength is such a mismatch with its financial status. Irrespective of the capital costs of the stadium. Capital investment is a separate area of finance.

Let's wait until we've been in the new stadium for 5-10 years. That might change things materially. Until the increased revenue becomes established, we will be as we are: over-performing.

Do you really believe that it was impossible for us to bring in new players ? That we are the only club who couldn’t bring in anyone ? We couldn’t find 1 single player in world football at an affordable price that would be prepared to come in and fight for a starting place ? Yet we were in dire need of them in several parts of the squad, most notably centre midfield. For example, if we had brought in 1 quality player to replace Dembele he would be playing now. At best it was Levy and Lewis saying we had to operate on a zero net spend basis. So no money was available. And since we had nobody to offload at a meaningful price we bought nobody either.

I hope I’m still alive in your 5-10 years timeframe when we may start to see some material change. In the meantime if we continue to not reinforce our squad for the reasons you have stated our progression on the field is likely to be backwards. And once that happens it doesn’t matter about the new stadium, our best players and our coach are not going to stay.

As I have said several times we have reached our ceiling unless and until Enic have a change of heart ( unlikely ) or more likely someone buys them out. In the meantime if we restrict it to one player leaving for a lot of money like ( let’s say ) Dele let’s hope we can buy 2 0r 3 good players with that money, combined with the contractual 25m for selling Alderweireld.
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
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Do you really believe that it was impossible for us to bring in new players ?

I didn't say that.

That we are the only club who couldn’t bring in anyone ?

I didn't say that either.

We couldn’t find 1 single player in world football at an affordable price that would be prepared to come in and fight for a starting place ?

Nope. Didn't say that either.

I write carefully. You should read more carefully. Which bit of "we didn't try very hard" was unclear?

Yet we were in dire need of them in several parts of the squad, most notably centre midfield. For example, if we had brought in 1 quality player to replace Dembele he would be playing now.

No we weren't. We have Winks, Skipp et al. And no he wouldn't be, there's no connection.

At best it was Levy and Lewis saying we had to operate on a zero net spend basis. So no money was available. And since we had nobody to offload at a meaningful price we bought nobody either.

Inaccurate and un-evidenced. You are speculating. And wrong as well. Money is always available at Tottenham when there is a good deal available: Sanchez; Lucas Moura; Eriksen; Dembélé; perhaps Aurier if he continues to improve; Gazzaniga; Son; Dele; Trippier; Lloris. I could go on and on and on. There is always money available for a good-deal transfer. Always. Evidence demonstrates this.

In the meantime if we continue to not reinforce our squad for the reasons you have stated our progression on the field is likely to be backwards.

There is no reason to assume that. Spending money often makes squads worse. See also: Manchester United. It is a press fiction that you have to blast vast sums of money to "keep up" with your rivals. What you have to do is to assemblegood players, develop them and build a team. There aren't players in our price range who would materially improve our squad. Unless you are suggesting that Neymar and Mbappé are in our price range.

And once that happens it doesn’t matter about the new stadium, our best players and our coach are not going to stay.

Un-evidenced speculation based on fan-clichés about the way football works. It's a project. It's taken 15 years now and it's still underway.

As I have said several times we have reached our ceiling unless and until Enic have a change of heart ( unlikely ) or more likely someone buys them out. In the meantime if we restrict it to one player leaving for a lot of money like ( let’s say ) Dele let’s hope we can buy 2 or 3 good players with that money, combined with the contractual 25m for selling Alderweireld.

We have probably reached our ceiling, financially, until the increased revenue from the new stadium kicks in - the 5-year period I was referencing - and we can compete with a really big clubs on wages. That's the way it is. Buying a couple of overpriced players who are no better than the ones we already have won't affect that. It will just placate the fans for a few weeks, the way we used to do in 2002, before Levy realised it was a shit way to develop a football club.

The happiest transfer window ever, for excitable fans at least, was the one when we spent the Bale sale money. That turned out well. At least we got Eriksen and Lamela.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
My feeling is we've had 3-4 years of unexpected over performances in the league. I doubt Levy expected it so he wasnt planning on having to cough up huge sums of money to maintain in once the doors to THFC Stadium opened.

Now we and the media want to keep talking about how we need to do this and that to keep up with the big clubs but we probably can't.

What this means is that we'll probabky drop back down to 5th/6th again for a good few years as the money clubs buy their success and we limit our spending.

The problem is, will Pochettin and the senior squad stick around for that?
If they don't, it could be worse than 5th/6th
 

Johnny J

Not the Kiwi you need but the one you deserve
Aug 18, 2012
18,124
47,908
I didn't say that.



I didn't say that either.



Nope. Didn't say that either.

I write carefully. You should read more carefully. Which bit of "we didn't try very hard" was unclear?



No we weren't. We have Winks, Skipp et al. And no he wouldn't be, there's no connection.



Inaccurate and un-evidenced. You are speculating. And wrong as well. Money is always available at Tottenham when there is a good deal available: Sanchez; Lucas Moura; Eriksen; Dembélé; perhaps Aurier if he continues to improve; Gazzaniga; Son; Dele; Trippier; Lloris. I could go on and on and on. There is always money available for a good-deal transfer. Always. Evidence demonstrates this.



There is no reason to assume that. Spending money often makes squads worse. See also: Manchester United. It is a press fiction that you have to blast vast sums of money to "keep up" with your rivals. What you have to do is to assemblegood players, develop them and build a team. There aren't players in our price range who would materially improve our squad. Unless you are suggesting that Neymar and Mbappé are in our price range.



Un-evidenced speculation based on fan-clichés about the way football works. It's a project. It's taken 15 years now and it's still underway.



We have probably reached our ceiling, financially, until the increased revenue from the new stadium kicks in - the 5-year period I was referencing - and we can compete with a really big clubs on wages. That's the way it is. Buying a couple of overpriced players who are no better than the ones we already have won't affect that. It will just placate the fans for a few weeks, the way we used to do in 2002, before Levy realised it was a shit way to develop a football club.

The happiest transfer window ever, for excitable fans at least, was the one when we spent the Bale sale money. That turned out well. At least we got Eriksen and Lamela.
I agree with all your points, except that there was value out there in the market this summer, and we were crying out for a top class CM.

Maddison would have been a great signing, and was eminently affordable.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
To be fair, a couple of years ago, he could have argued going to United for a few years was a dream move.
Now look at them.
 

teedee

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2019
702
1,412
My feeling is we've had 3-4 years of unexpected over performances in the league. I doubt Levy expected it so he wasnt planning on having to cough up huge sums of money to maintain in once the doors to THFC Stadium opened.

Now we and the media want to keep talking about how we need to do this and that to keep up with the big clubs but we probably can't.

What this means is that we'll probabky drop back down to 5th/6th again for a good few years as the money clubs buy their success and we limit our spending.

The problem is, will Pochettin and the senior squad stick around for that?
If they don't, it could be worse than 5th/6th

It's being so cheerful that keeps you going, then?
 
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