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Manager Watch: Ange Postecoglou

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Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
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I don’t really see the Conte comparisons.

It wasn’t the case we didn’t give Conte time, he wanted to leave and was most likely leaving at the end of the season.

There was overwhelming support for him during his first season. Most people were on board until around this time time last year.

I think if something similar happens next season, that we’re out of the cups, playing poorly and Ange is tearing into the players and indicates he’s leaving at the end of the season, then I would see the comparisons to Conte’s time here.
 
Danny1

Danny1

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2006
5,644
17,268
Conte is gone. He didn’t want to be here. He publicly slagged off the club and the players didn’t want to play for him, most notably and publicly stated by Romero.

Ange has been here just over half a season, up till before the last game he had the joint most points of any manager in his first season, all without Harry Kane and having multiple injuries and key players away on international duty.

Slight criticism is fine if justified in a game by game basis, anything more than that is just pathetic and shows the type of fans these days in that they cannot give anyone time to proper bed themselves in.

For me, the club is heading in the right direction, we have the right people at the right positions and we are clearly an attractive club for the worlds leading youngsters.
 
Snarfalicious

Snarfalicious

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Jul 15, 2012
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Ange, from basically anyone’s account that is anywhere near the club, has been a positive influence and is making serious headway in turning the club around. Is it absolutely outside of some folks’ understanding that maybe his first order of business is getting the psychological structure of the club right? Fostering an environment on merit and the players actually feeling valued and wanting to come to work? Ange has a very high emotional intelligence, and he knows what he was walking into, knows what the players needed, and knew he was building something from the ground up. He got the players happy again, then he got them happy with the football, and he’s developing a real sense of connection between the football side and the fans again, something that basically felt like we were all on the Titan waiting for it to implode prior to his arrival.

Why can’t some just be happy with the fact a rebuild is a process and there are going to be many steps and stops on the journey? I know, football is a ‘what have you done for me lately’ game, but to be honest, the moment folks go full ‘Ange out’ or are questioning the direction under him this early after all the relative success, I lose all belief that those individuals can ever change, and they’ll always be the first to shit themselves and whine for change when it gets rocky. So, to that I say: “fuck em.”
 
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Ginola+Tonic

Ginola+Tonic

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Aug 27, 2021
1,423
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Snarfalicious said:
Ange, from basically anyone’s account that is anywhere near the club, has been a positive influence and is making serious headway in turning the club around. Is it absolutely outside of some folks’ understanding that maybe his first order of business is getting the psychological structure of the club right? Fostering an environment on merit and the players actually feeling valued and wanting to come to work? Ange has a very high emotional intelligence, and he knows what he was walking into, knows what the players needed, and knew he was building something from the ground up. He got the players happy again, then he got them happy with the football, and he’s developing a real sense of connection between the football side and the fans again, something that basically felt like we were all on the Titan waiting for it to implode prior to his arrival.

Why can’t some just be happy with the fact a rebuild is a process and there are going to be many steps and stops on the journey? I know, football is a ‘what have you done for me lately’ game, but to be honest, the moment folks go full ‘Ange out’ or are questioning the direction under him this early after all the relative success, I lose all belief that those individuals can ever change, and they’ll always be the first to shit themselves and whine for change it gets rocky. So, to that I say: “fuck em.”
Click to expand...
Brilliant 👏🏻
 
Locotoro

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,399
14,086
Trix said:
The system we play means you can't afford to make mistakes. Even the best players fuck up, and every single player makes mistakes. With how we set up it's very difficult to control what happens after the mistake which is the problem.
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To be fair, our previous two managers also played a system that meant you can't afford to make mistakes. At least with the high line we give ourselves half the pitch to try and mitigate that mistake rather than a CB brainfart right in front of the keeper.

I don't have the stats but I would wager that our goals conceded from individuals errors is less than in previous seasons
 
N

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,083
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conte was not a project manager, we need someone who’s going to take time, use young players, pick players, wisely, and coach them. we can’t afford to bring in ready-made stars. We have to discover and nurture.

Ange is the right man, give him time.
 
funkycoldmedina

funkycoldmedina

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Jun 20, 2004
1,890
6,233
newbie said:
conte was not a project manager, we need someone who’s going to take time, use young players, pick players, wisely, and coach them. we can’t afford to bring in ready-made stars. We have to discover and nurture.

Ange is the right man, give him time.
Click to expand...
We also needed someone who was going to build a squad. Making tough decisions like selling Sanchez speak volumes about someone with a long term strategy, rather than one that doesn't want to leave themselves short for a couple of games.
 
stormfly

stormfly

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Dec 6, 2006
4,608
12,074
newbie said:
conte was not a project manager, we need someone who’s going to take time, use young players, pick players, wisely, and coach them. we can’t afford to bring in ready-made stars. We have to discover and nurture.

Ange is the right man, give him time.
Click to expand...
I really like Ange and want him to stay for a very long time. I would hope we’ll be able to bring in ready made stars in the next few years with all the money we’ve been making though. Otherwise, what was the point of the new stadium?
 
J

jay2040

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
2,684
4,279
stormfly said:
I really like Ange and want him to stay for a very long time. I would hope we’ll be able to bring in ready made stars in the next few years with all the money we’ve been making though. Otherwise, what was the point of the new stadium?
Click to expand...

I don't wnat to buy a ready made star as no guarantee they will work.
I want us to develop players into stars.
 
N

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,083
6,390
stormfly said:
I really like Ange and want him to stay for a very long time. I would hope we’ll be able to bring in ready made stars in the next few years with all the money we’ve been making though. Otherwise, what was the point of the new stadium?
Click to expand...

Not quite what I meant,

Madison was a great buy

but we need to nurture and develop young players if we want elite players, we discover tomorrow’s superstars and then give them the tools and help to become superstars. Of course, we’ll still buy ready-made players plug gaps, but we need to be more long-term if we wanna win the league, we’re gonna need to have far longer strategy, than just buy elite players
 
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N

newbie

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Jul 16, 2004
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funkycoldmedina said:
We also needed someone who was going to build a squad. Making tough decisions like selling Sanchez speak volumes about someone with a long term strategy, rather than one that doesn't want to leave themselves short for a couple of games.
Click to expand...

exactly :)
 
S

Styopa

Well-Known Member
Jan 19, 2014
5,349
14,801
Snarfalicious said:
Why can’t some just be happy with the fact a rebuild is a process and there are going to be many steps and stops on the journey? I know, football is a ‘what have you done for me lately’ game, but to be honest, the moment folks go full ‘Ange out’ or are questioning the direction under him this early after all the relative success, I lose all belief that those individuals can ever change, and they’ll always be the first to shit themselves and whine for change it
Click to expand...
Locotoro said:
To be fair, our previous two managers also played a system that meant you can't afford to make mistakes. At least with the high line we give ourselves half the pitch to try and mitigate that mistake rather than a CB brainfart right in front of the keeper.

I don't have the stats but I would wager that our goals conceded from individuals errors is less than in previous seasons
Click to expand...

Yeah I think if we take emotion out of it, and try to view the situation more objectively, the progress we are making this season becomes clearer.

I agree that it felt like Conte’s system invited pressure and needed exceptional players to deal with it. In fairness it worked well for the first season, but then fell off a cliff in the second season.

Last season we conceded 63 goals, only Bournemouth and Forest outside of the relegated teams conceded more than us.

We had already conceded 40 goals by the time Conte was sacked, so were on course to concede roughly 54 goals even before he left, and before the thrashing at Newcastle. For balance, we were also on course to score 70 goals by the time he left.

What happened last season should be the baseline to measure Ange’s progress here so far. He took over this summer, when things were a mess, not the previous summer when we were flying under Conte.

Whilst it’s true that Ange benefited from the signing of VdV, that was also offset by the small matter of selling Kane the weekend of the start of the season.

This season we are on course to score 79 and concede 58. That’s 9 more goals, in spite of losing Kane’s 30 goals and 5 fewer goals against (or just 4 more than under Conte’s trajectory) in spite of transitioning to a much more progressive, attack minded system.
 
Sp3akerboxxx

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
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RDT_20240301_2130175215292897878114558.png
 
Now it's Spursonal

Now it's Spursonal

Well-Known Member
Aug 4, 2012
1,598
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Ginola+Tonic said:
Dumb this down for me please
Click to expand...
It means that we don't concede a crazy amount of chances, but the ones we do concede are very dangerous.

This makes sense due to our style of high possession and high defensive line. For most of the game we keep the opposition trapped in their own half, but the few times they break out of it will inevitably be super dangerous.

Ideally a team would want to be as far in to the bottom left of the graph as possible, but I feel that this is impossible with Ange's tactics.

The ideal realistic scenario that Ange will be hoping to achieve over time is that our graph point will move a lot further to the left. This would mean that the chances we concede are still very dangerous but due to our improving ability to retain the ball and maintain the high press we concede far fewer of those chances i.e. like Man City

Sidenote: The graph also sadly shows that Arsenal are absolutely incredible defensively, best in the league by a mile.
 
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Sp3akerboxxx

Sp3akerboxxx

Adoption: Nabil Bentaleb
Apr 4, 2006
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Ginola+Tonic said:
Dumb this down for me please
Click to expand...

Y axis is the xG from shots against (quality of chance) and X axis is the amount of chances.

Basically, comparatively to the rest of the league, we dont give up a lot of chances, but we do give up really good chances.
 
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